Target Panic causes and cures (by popular request) - ArcheryTalk Forum: Target & Bowhunting Chat

GRIV · #1 October 13th, 2005, 11:28 AM

I have gotten tons of target panic and shot execution questions lately now that everyone is headed back to the indoor range. I thought I would take a second and outline my thoughts on target panic and how I cured myself and helped others.

First of all, it is not caused by the release or what type of sight or aiming reticle you use. Changing release styles to a Stan style (triggerless), pinky, or middle finger activated release is only the first step. By changing the release you have a chance to train yourself with a new and hopefully correct habit. But, you have to treat the root of the issue to be totally free.

What is the root of the problem? I think it is very important to really understand where it came from before you can begin learning proper shot execution from the ground up.

Here’s how it happens to most people…

Many shooters start their release shooting career with a simple set of instructions. “Put the pin in the middle and squeeeeeeze the trigger.” It sounds simple enough, but there is one problem. As a new shooter, you can’t hold the pin in the middle of the target and monkey around with a new release aid at the same time. Eventually they unknowingly slip into a pattern of touching off the trigger as the sight wobbles over the center of the target. In the beginning they see fairly good accuracy and continue to imbed a reflexive trigger response.

Basically over time the shooter develops a hardwired connection between their trigger finger and their eye. The eye sees the pin cross the middle and it triggers the fire reflex. In target shooters this problem manifests itself as a rapid increase in scores and then a jagged average after that. The good days and the bad days are very far apart and the bad days are made worse by pressure and over-trying. The snowballing effect of pressure can be very frustrating at this stage.

The shooter first becomes aware of the problem when trying to increase their scores to the next level. As they become more stable and can hold the pin still on the target, subconsciously they hold off of the center because they are “not ready to shoot”. This slowly becomes freezing. Shooters then try to ease the pin or dot carefully into the center of the target. This works for a short time until their trigger reflex begins shooting too early. It is usually at this point a shooter realizes that there is a problem and they finally can feel the loss of control in their shot execution. Just after the freezing stage is the uncontrollable flinching, jerking, and the frustration from the total loss of control.

The good news is that you can break this habit just about as simply as you learned it. it just takes time and steady, dilligent work.

First, changing releases will help because it will be easier to learn a new release style. I have seen very few people who could learn to shoot their old release effectively, but once proper technique is learned many have great success going back to their old releases.

Second, you need to properly learn how to activate the release and what it feels like when it is happening correctly. The easiest way I know of to do this is to make a loop of string that when looped over your bow hand and hooked to the release, it can be drawn back like a bow and it fits your draw length. The loop will simulate a bow and help you learn to pull through the release. The key here is to shoot your new release over and over and develop the feel of a surprise shot without the distraction of the bow and sight. Because of the connection between the sight, your eye, and the target is what triggers the response; you have to eliminate the sight and target for now. (incedentally, I use this technique everytime I try a new release)

When you are shooting the loop, learn to relax your release hand through the releasing process. Here’s how it works. While you have the shooting loop at full draw, develop tension in the loop. Wrap your finger around the trigger or set your fingers on the triggerless release deeply and pull against the loop. You should feel the pressure building against the pads of your fingers. As that pressure builds allow your index and middle fingers to yield against the pressure. It will be almost as if your fingers are relaxing out of the release. This yielding creates a transfer of power from the finger beds to your trigger finger applying pressure to the button causing it to fire on its own time. If you are shooting a Stan, the pressure will transfer from your index finger to your third or fourth finger causing the release to pivot enough to fire. NOTE: when this is done correctly, someone watching will barely notice a change or any movement. It is more of a power transfer than a movement.

Continue to practice this and stay away from your bow until you have it perfected and you have done it enough to be habit. I am talking a couple weeks (depending on how bad your problem is.) Resist the urge to advance too quickly. This is what got you to where you are now. You want to build a good strong foundation of habit that will stay with you from now on. You will want to practice this step until it is an automatic response.

The next step is transferring the feel to your bow. Take the sight off your bow and remove the target from the bale. Shoot arrows at a very close range with your eyes closed. Concentrate only on making the feel exactly like it was on the loop. Do this for a week if you have to. Only advance when you have it down perfect and it is an automatic response or habit.

Now you can put your sight on the bow and get at about 5 yards. This step requires a little visualization skill that you will have to learn as you go. Draw your bow and line up the sight with the blank bale. Then close your eyes and visualize the dot slowly floating in the X-ring, and then execute the shot. Continue to practice this and make sure that you visualize the dot floating in the x. You will hardly ever see it sit still so you will need to make it as realistic as possible. Continue to practice this for at least a week or more depending on how bad your issue was.

Finally you get to put a target up on the bale… But you can’t shoot it yet. During this step you will develop a new habit. You will learn to confidently approach the target and get used to the idea that the pin or dot can be in the middle without immediately triggering the shot. Stand at about five yards and do these steps

1. Look at the X you want to shoot
2. Keeping your vision on that X, draw your bow
3. Keep your vision on the X and move into your anchor
4. The move the peep and scope into view of your eye and it should line up with the X you are looking at.
5. Pause on the X, watch it float, and after about 8 seconds or so let down. Take time to get a good look at it, get used to it.

Make sure you splash the dot or pin right into the middle of the X and let it float. Resist the urge to creep into it. Repeat this at 5 yards until you feel good about it, then move to 10 and repeat again. Once you have a good feel for that, move to 15 and then 20. This will give you a good idea of what sight movement really is and let you show yourself that you can hold on the X. The whole object of this exercise is to desensitize yourself and eliminate the connection between your eye, target, and release.

Now it’s been about 6 weeks and you should be ready to shoot your first shots. Set up at five yards and try to recreate actual shooting conditions. You should keep score and write it down, even go as far as use an official league score card. Shoot a full game on the target of your choosing. I prefer to score FITA style on a Vegas face, but if the NFAA Nationals are near, I will use a five spot. Concentrate on shooting the shot correctly and just let the sight float. Be on guard and don’t let old habits sneak in. Make yourself comfortable with holding in the middle while allowing the shot to smoothly and naturally execute. If you are completing this with no trouble at all and are shooting perfect shots after a couple days, you can move on, but only advance when you have mastered the release.

Now you have mastered 5 yards you will move to ten and continue scoring and shooting. Spend a week or two here and continue until you have mastered ten and can go through a full game without a single bad shot. Next move on to 15 and then 20.

By the time you make it out to 20, you should be in control of your shot and be well on your way to shooting top scores. There will still be rough days and minor relapses. If you experience trouble, go right back to 10 yards and shoot some 10 yard games to re-affirm the feel and the flow of good shooting. This all may seem like a lot to go through and taking half a season off to fix yourself is a price you have to pay. I will guarantee you that all the boredom and minutia that you go through during this process will be well worth it in the end and it will reward you will a long and full career of enjoyable shooting.

You just have to ask your self, “how bad to I want it”. I spent about 4 months with the initial steps that I have outlined here, but it took about 2 years before I shot my first tournament all the way through without a hint of TP.

I hope this helps.

cpickdc · #2 October 13th, 2005, 12:10 PM

What kind/brand of release can a guy use for this? I now use scott wildcat, and would eventually like to get back to using it. Are there any decent releases that you can recommend for this??

Craig

Deezlin · #3 October 13th, 2005, 12:11 PM

Another great posting!!! Thanks, GRIV

GRIV · #4 October 13th, 2005, 12:24 PM

You can use any release you choose for this. All of them will work. It is all in how you relax your hand.

Lifer · #5 October 13th, 2005, 12:31 PM

Good read there, George! Though I'm still convinced that my TP was caused by some bad beer!

The Blind Baling really helped me this summer, though I now wish I had spent some time with the string loop. Guess there is plenty of time for that during these coming winter evenings.

Are there any tips you can offer for finger shooters...so we can quit plucking under pressure?

redman · #6 October 13th, 2005, 12:42 PM

relax your hand and pull with your back right ????????????????

ridgerunner · #7 October 13th, 2005, 01:06 PM

AWESOME GRIV!!
thanks!
We are so lucky to have such knowledgable folks who are willing to share. If you don't mind, I'm gonna print this one and have sheets ready to hand out for people who need it at our league.

GRIV · #8 October 13th, 2005, 01:11 PM

Lifer,

When shooting traditional bows with fingers it is the sight picture that triggers the shot even though you don't have a sight.

The steps are similar if you are using periphery aiming or gap shooting you will need to practice holding your sight picture in place and letting down. If you have it bad usually the symptoms are low shots under the deer or short drawing (releasing before anchor).

Here’s what you can do. Practice without the bow and the use the string loop but you will have to modify it a little. Get a broom handle or stout dowel rod about 3’ in length and fix the string to the ends. Adjust the length to fit your draw to the corner of your mouth with a little pressure against it. Then practice with your tab and hook into the edge of your mouth or whatever your anchor is. Practice stretching into your anchor as you release.

The release with fingers is a mental command so you will have to create a trigger (similar to a clicker.) I prefer to stretch into my anchor. I use my middle finger in the corner of my mouth. I use a periphery aiming technique and I swing up to the target and draw as I swing up. I finish the last 3 inches of the draw level with the sight picture I want. I touch my anchor and stretch into it. Right when I feel the stretch max out, I release through the shot. It is a very dynamic and free flowing style that works with moving or stationary targets.

Try this technique on a blank bale until you master it then move to a target at close range similar to the above instructions. I have had good luck teaching this to others and it seems to work well. Let me know how it works out for you.

GRIV · #9 October 13th, 2005, 01:12 PM

Go right ahead!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridgerunner

AWESOME GRIV!!
thanks!
We are so lucky to have such knowledgable folks who are willing to share. If you don't mind, I'm gonna print this one and have sheets ready to hand out for people who need it at our league.

dzingale · #10 October 13th, 2005, 01:17 PM

Thank you,
I know it will help me.
Danny

#11 October 13th, 2005, 01:20 PM

Hey Dr. I agree with what you say.. I do have some questions And for many They are somewhat controversial...

How heavy should the realease be.

How much travel if any should it have...

I think the releases should be heavy enough to place your finger(s) in the proper position,, but have no travel... Even with a stan style release. if a person feels the movement,, does that not facilletate target panic as well...

monty53 · #12 October 13th, 2005, 01:33 PM

George thanks for taking the time from your busy schedule to share your knowledge!....

olehemlock · #13 October 13th, 2005, 02:07 PM

Thanks George for the post, best post I've read in months. Dan

GRIV · #14 October 13th, 2005, 02:13 PM

I prefer a heavy release. This makes it easy to put your thumb on the trigger without fear of it firing early. I prefer to have zero travel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterYoda

Hey Dr. I agree with what you say.. I do have some questions And for many They are somewhat controversial...

How heavy should the realease be.

How much travel if any should it have...

I think the releases should be heavy enough to place your finger(s) in the proper position,, but have no travel... Even with a stan style release. if a person feels the movement,, does that not facilletate target panic as well...

Lifer · #15 October 13th, 2005, 02:40 PM

Thanks, George, for taking the time.

andy_smaga · #16 October 13th, 2005, 02:58 PM

Thanks again George

ArchersParadox · #17 October 13th, 2005, 04:47 PM

Very inSIGHTful!!!

I just copied, pasted, and printed out your post!

Thank You.

araz2114 · #18 October 13th, 2005, 04:50 PM

This is the good stuff that you get at a GRIV seminar. I had already beat most of this stuff into my head before I met GRIV but he really reinforces this in his class. Another thing that GRIV reinforced is that "it is only archery". Why put all the pressure on yourself? After the tournament your dog will not look at you any differently...you will hopefully still have the same old job...if you win money it will be gone in a heartbeat and all you have is the satisfaction of doing your best. That should be why you shoot!

Have fun...try hard!!!

araz2114

flinchmatic · #19 October 13th, 2005, 05:21 PM

This is probably the best post I've ever read on here....as you can tell from my user name I've struggled with T.P. in the past. I have made advances with it using my own techniques that have helped immensely...techniques that imulate your instructions here. I used to shoot indoor leauges 8 years ago and made it well into double A when I started to struggle. Since then I have retreated to "just bowhunting" and eventually gave it a rest altogether to the tune of 5 years. I've been shooting again for 3 years and bowhunting again (I shot the biggest buck I ever shot last year) and am shooting better than ever.
I have invented my own benchmark in bow shooting that I can acheive...but not consistently...for every round. I call it the "Mike Mace Minute of Angle".I'm sure you know about minute of angle when referring to rifles. Mine goes like this...1 inch for every 10 yards grouping....yeah...2 inches @ 20 ...3 in.@ 30..and so on. This is my personal goal. I've been shooting constantly at 40 yards tring to keep 'um inside a 4 in. group..and I like to shoot at 70 to measure the groups..yet after all these years...I can't seem to do it for very many rounds in a row. I may have to put the time into your method-by the "book", to reach my personal goal. You have inspired me to try harder with a new dedication.
You are the foundation that this site is built on...more people like you would make this world a better place to live in...THANK YOU very much for your time and compassion to make better archers out of all of us...Mike

vam · #20 October 13th, 2005, 05:36 PM

GEO.THANK YOU for taking time to do this.great post.Just to let you know I am at 10yds now for almost 2 weeks wow and the things I learned I didnt know all things I was doing wrong thanks to you I am coming along ok.but got to work on them fingers.more.Thank you again from this 74 yr old fart.God Bless vam

pintojk · #21 October 13th, 2005, 05:58 PM

Thanks

Keith Thompson · #22 October 13th, 2005, 06:18 PM

I'm new here. I need help understanding what it is that sets off the release. I use the wrist strap release with the trigger. Is it back tension that should set off the release? The bow hand puching forward? Still don't understand what constitutes the perfect release.

Daniel Boone · #23 October 13th, 2005, 06:28 PM

Dreaming of that first 60X score, the quest continues

spicman · #24 October 13th, 2005, 06:33 PM

thanks for the great post,very informative.

francis · #25 October 13th, 2005, 06:39 PM

GRIV

once you master this release method...is it a good method to use when shooting in the wind , or what about competitons where shooting quickly is a factor?

I like using my zenith, set fairly slow

But when shooting in the wind, when it is impossible to hold anywhere near the center of the target, I feel like it is ok for me command the release for occasions like this, however clean releases when trying to command fire a triggerless release are almost impossible I find.
I can feel the release shanging up on the loop and shot is way off from where I commanded it from

if i commanded a trigger release this would not happen

Do you recommend not using a triggerless releases for shooting in the wind?
And if so I imagine a trigger release that is set very stiff would be difficult to time with a "controlled Punch", maybe would have to use a lighter trigger setting for these occasions?

Thanks
Just curious as to what you find works best for you

I have bad target panic issues, with the zenith i am almost cured, so I dont really want to stop using it if i can help it

Thanks

Francis

GRIV · #26 October 14th, 2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Thompson

I'm new here. I need help understanding what it is that sets off the release. I use the wrist strap release with the trigger. Is it back tension that should set off the release? The bow hand puching forward? Still don't understand what constitutes the perfect release.

Keith,

Your method will be slightly different. With a wrist strap release you will need to shorten the projection (the length that is sticks out of your hand) of your release so the trigger is in line with the crack in your largest knuckle. This will allow you to fully wrap your finger over the trigger and get a nice deep grip. As you apply pressure against the “shooting loop” allow the muscles in your wrist and hand to relax as you pull. This will shift pressure on the trigger (as it is curled over the trigger.)

The Copper John Eagle 2 finger is a great release for this technique. You can pull with your index and then wrap your middle finger around the trigger. As you relax your index finger your middle puts pressure on the trigger.

GRIV · #27 October 14th, 2005, 08:21 AM

here is another view

GRIV · #28 October 14th, 2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francis

GRIV

once you master this release method...is it a good method to use when shooting in the wind , or what about competitons where shooting quickly is a factor?

I am a very fast shooter and this menthod works great no matter what type of shooting you are in. In the wind or fast shooting situations it is all about tempo. If it is windy speed up the tempo. If you are under pressure and are unstable, slow down the tempo.

Quote:

I like using my zenith, set fairly slow

But when shooting in the wind, when it is impossible to hold anywhere near the center of the target, I feel like it is ok for me command the release for occasions like this, however clean releases when trying to command fire a triggerless release are almost impossible I find.
I can feel the release shanging up on the loop and shot is way off from where I commanded it from

if i commanded a trigger release this would not happen

Do you recommend not using a triggerless releases for shooting in the wind?

I feel that it is never ok to command shoot. And yes it is possible to shoot a triggerless in the wind, you just have to speed up the tempo. When shot correctly most all releases are activated the same, so you can shoot most any of them in any situation.

Quote:

And if so I imagine a trigger release that is set very stiff would be difficult to time with a "controlled Punch", maybe would have to use a lighter trigger setting for these occasions?

I would never recommend a controlled punch. It is just target panic waiting to happen.

Quote:

Thanks
Just curious as to what you find works best for you

I have bad target panic issues, with the zenith i am almost cured, so I dont really want to stop using it if i can help it

Thanks

Francis

Stick with your triggerless release and try the steps I have outlined above. Concentrate on tempo when you are in a windy situation.

Deezlin · #29 October 14th, 2005, 09:27 AM

This maybe sort of unusual. But, I have been shooting two different bows. I shoot a Martin Scepter III Nitrous-X and a BowTech Pro 40 Dually. I practice a little 5 spot before I shoot Indoor 3D with the Dually. I usually take a few shots with the Dually before the indoor competition starts.

Now, these two bow are about a far a part as they can be. Bother are similar poundage, but the Dually feels like a Tiger in my hand compared to the Scepter's, putty-cat feel. But, I shot both very well, I use the same release with both.

GRIV, am I defeating myself or is this variation good?

Reno · #30 October 14th, 2005, 09:50 AM

Great post Griv. For comfort one can use about a 5" section of conduit or hose, I use a section of old washing machine hose, to run the practice string loop through to act as the bow grip. Just easier on the hand when practicing.

GRIV · #31 October 14th, 2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deezlin

This maybe sort of unusual. But, I have been shooting two different bows. I shoot a Martin Scepter III Nitrous-X and a BowTech Pro 40 Dually. I practice a little 5 spot before I shoot Indoor 3D with the Dually. I usually take a few shots with the Dually before the indoor competition starts.

Now, these two bow are about a far a part as they can be. Bother are similar poundage, but the Dually feels like a Tiger in my hand compared to the Scepter's, putty-cat feel. But, I shot both very well, I use the same release with both.

GRIV, am I defeating myself or is this variation good?

That is a personal thing. I usually like to at least keep the grip feel, mass weight, and draw weight as close as possible. If it is not disrupting your scores, I don't see it as a problem. Some people have problems and others don't. As a archery equipment designer, I have to shoot tons of different releases, bows, and accessories, so over the years I got used to shooting different things all the time. It doesn't cause a problem for me at all.

salizex · #32 October 14th, 2005, 01:51 PM

Thanks for the Tips GRIV.

Stringing the practice string through a pvc pipe serves as a good handle and keeps your bow hand from getting sore.

sam

vam · #33 October 14th, 2005, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salizex

Thanks for the Tips GRIV.

Stringing the practice string through a pvc pipe serves as a good handle and keeps your bow hand from getting sore.

sam

I might add I put 4 loops of bungee cord though the pvc pipe with a nylon cord the set at my dl the bungee gave the feel of your hoiding # and it has work real well for me. bungee about 3/8in. Just my??

vam

francis · #34 October 14th, 2005, 07:56 PM

Thanks Griv

Island Archer · #35 October 14th, 2005, 08:05 PM

I now this reply looks long just thought it might help someone else.

I suffered from target panic for many years. I always dismissed for some sort of shooting flaw. Weather it was a release problem or an issue with my bow. It got to the point where I lacked the self confidence to even execute a shot sequence. I pretty much gave up archery except for the occasional hunting trip. Then one day I was home visiting my mother and found my old book by Al Henderson. He persistanly stated that one must be honest with oneself and look at yourself in the mirror. At that point I changed my habits and began to focus on the problem at hand. The dreaded TP. As of last year I was able to get my scores up to were I felt I was accomplishing something. This help improve my confidence and overall shooting. So the input I would have for someone looking for information on target panic is to follow the advice of Girv, read Al Henderson's book and do what James Despart has suggested in some of his teachings. But most of all confidence in oneself will always allow that person to come out on top. Never get down and allways stand tall. Remember we will allways win our personal battles, If you want too.

Unk Bond · #36 October 14th, 2005, 08:36 PM

Hello Griv
What suggestions would you have for a thumb wrist strap release.

Unk

dhunt1 · #37 October 15th, 2005, 05:41 AM

I still own a Stan Avenger Bigthing release that Ive modified with different springs. I purposely set mine as tight as it will go. Set the thumb peg deep in my hand and keep the whole of the top side of the hand totally relaxed to give ease of rotation. Because i put it so deep its also easier to hold the bow steady. I preload the thumb peg and also preload what everyone calls back-tension. Then Ive got a certain time frame for which the release will happen.
Griv does this sound correct to you. I'm not a pro but Ive had great success with this style and taught new people at my place of work. They seem to enjoy learning a whole new way of shooting.....