October 24th, 2005, 05:34 PM
I was jst wondering what you thought of these broadheads. Man do they look mean!! I was reading about them, and it said that lower poundage setups could hunt with confidence. well, just to confirm that, i am coming to you. I am shooting a CX200 arrow w/ a 100 grain tip at about 251 fps with about 51 lbs of kinetic energy. Do you think that these will work well for me? i really like the looks and sound of these heads. I have a set on order, and should be in on friday. Do you think i will be able to hunt with confidence with these broadheads?
Also, i like the heat shrinking target thingy. it keeps the blades from deploying, and it comes free with the broadheads. they are kind of expensive, but it looks to me like it is worth it. I am just wondering what you think, and if it will work well for hunting w/ my setup.
Thank you very much
October 24th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Ohhh...here we go.
These are very hotly debated heads. If you do a board search, you'll have all the controversy at your fingertips!!
"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man." - Jack Handey
October 24th, 2005, 05:53 PM
I've gone back and forth with one of the designers (perhaps THE designer), about the claims on the website and the design principles. After some good constructive arguments, he's quelled my doubts, and as far as the head is concerned, I now consider it somewhat of a masterpiece.
As a mechanical engineer, I can appreciate the thought that went into this head. From tip to thread, everything about this head is designed. No curve, cut, or hole on this broadhead is there without a reason backed by sound engineering principles.
At the time I was "arguing" with him, the website hadn't been updated. Much of the design intent was explained poorly on the website - or not at all. They've now added "whitepapers" so to speak, that better explain the design intent of each feature on the broadhead.
As I said, from an engineering standpoint, this broadhead is a work of art. However, you could have a life-vest with tons of features - but if its made of lead, it won't work very well. The proof will be in the pudding - results on game. Thusfar - they have some impressive results. Like anything new, it will take time to catch on. If it performs as well as its designed, this broadhead is going to take the archery world by storm...
Many have issue with the size of the head. I think the marketing approach was a bit off, and got the company off to a bad start. Focusing on low poundage setups was a bad idea. It didn't sit well with bowhunters. However, it DOES allow them to use a high damage / large cutting diameter they might not have been able to use otherwise. I think with an adequate setup, pass throughs shouldn't be a problem. Don't expect to push a 2"+ head through a deer with 51 ft-lbs. Put it in the right spot though, and you SHOULD see quick deaths. However, I still don't agree with trying to mismatch energy with broadhead cut. Have a low power setup, use a small broadhead - but thats just my opinion. As I said, I haven't used this head yet and I'll reserve judgement until I see it perform first hand on game.
I'm going with the 100 grain Hypershocks this year. It was tough to unscrew my Rockets and "risk" something new, but the design is too good not to try. In addition, after further investigation of this design, I don't expect to see arrow shaft sized entrance holes. I expect they will be slightly larger with some cutting starting on the outside of the animal. Just my feeling based on the understanding of the head design.
I think some new features they are adding in the near future will make this broadhead even more appealing to those on the fence. If I don't have the passthrough results I expect with the Hypershock 100, I'm pretty sure I can simply put any of the blades in and adjust my cut down to something more manageable. I think the 2" 2 blade will be fine as I'm exceeding 70 ft-lbs of energy.
Believe me - this is NOT the Sonora broadhead of the old days...
Hopefully in the near future, I'll have some impressive kill results with this head posted online...
Good luck with the head - I think you'll get into the animal, but passthroughs probably won't be common for you.
Last edited by Bo Hunter; October 24th, 2005 at 06:02 PM.
October 24th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Your KE is very low for any mechanical IMO. I'd suggest you not go that route unless you add some horsepower.
Good hunting, Tim
"That woulda killed him, if it hadda hit him!" - My enthusiastic and optimistic 8 year old son John, after a complete miss.
October 24th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by SlowBowInMO
"It takes a big man to cry, but it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man." - Jack Handey
October 24th, 2005, 07:46 PM
Thats what i was thinking. But on the website, it clearly states that it was designed so that it could be used with lover poundage bows. it says their pro staff has shot deer w/ 50 pounds and had excellent results. i guess it is worth a try. what do you think?
Last edited by The Hoyt Shooter; October 24th, 2005 at 08:03 PM.
October 24th, 2005, 10:40 PM
Anyone Else Know anything about these heads and how they will work with a lower poundage/Kinetic energy setup?
October 25th, 2005, 08:15 AM
I'm sure they CAN be used with a lower poundage setup. However, don't expect pass throughs. But, I suppose there's a chance if you were using larger fixed blades you wouldn't get a pass through either.
The benefit of these heads is that you can get into the body with a very large cut head and do a lot of damage. I'm still on the fence about this. I suppose, it might be possible to get a passthrough even with a lower poundage head. You use minimal energy getting in, which saves you that much more energy for getting out.
As I said - I have to try them and see how things work. I'm very excited to use these heads though. Heck, when they first came out I thought they were a big scam.
One thing I would like to point out - these heads or NOT designed to stay inside the animal. I've often heard people mention that is the intent of this head, which I'm fairly certain is not....
Another thing to mention. We've been using 1.5" 3 Blade Rocket Sidewinders since I can remember. We've gotten tons of pass throughs with them with "ancient" (10 years old) bows set between 60-70# that I know didn't have the energy of the bows of today....
October 25th, 2005, 08:38 AM
i wouldnt dare use them in a lower poundage set up..i have seen them fail at 68lbs...
October 25th, 2005, 08:52 AM
I am a mechanical proponent but I think you are a low with the horsepower.
I'm not an inspiration; It's just the situation I'm in and I'm doing my best......
October 25th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Mikie - What was the failure that you experienced. I'd like to hear some detail about it. Just trying to learn...
October 25th, 2005, 09:08 AM
If you are worried about KE, I would put the smaller 1 5/8" blades in the 100 gr body to ensure more penetration. That is one of the sweet features of these heads(Interchangable blades). I've been using the 125 2 3/4" cut out of my set up w/ 71ft/lbs of KE and have had tremendous results.
October 25th, 2005, 09:09 AM
my cousin and i have stands close to eachothter for filming...one night we hunted but no camera..i watched him shoot a 150lb doe at 20ish yards in the guts...(not a good shot of course) but no pass thru..the deer went about 300 yards with the arrow in her...we did find her the next day about noon: still warm...(that thought just sickens me)
here is his set up
that was enough for me to change him back to muzzys
this is just my experience...some have had great luck with them...but i will stick with a thunder head, and my cousin will stick with muzzy
October 25th, 2005, 09:19 AM
We've heard this story before, and I think most would agree that your cousin failed. Not the head!!! Anyone that recovers a gut shot deer should be very thankful. I don't how another broadhead, especially one with a smaller cutting diameter would fair any better. Maybe you would have passed through with a smaller head, but you surely would not do as much internal damage.
Originally Posted by Mikie Day
October 25th, 2005, 09:25 AM
Mikey - Was it the larger 125's or the 100's? Just wondering. Also, was it angled? Just trying to get an idea of what might have happened? How was the damage that was done by the head?
I suppose, if it was the 2-3/4" cut, I could see not getting a passthrough. One thing to consider is - I would consider the guts as "full". You know tons of stuff to offer resistance. Organs, food etc. The chest cavity, for the most part, is some very soft tissue, and some air.
Let me know about the size of the head and the damage it did. Got any pictures? Feel free to reply via PM if you like so this doesn't get some big fit started... I'm just interested in hearing how the head performed and what conclusions, if any you could draw based on the dead deer...
October 25th, 2005, 09:53 AM
the head was a 100g
my cousin made a poor shot but i could poke my finger thru a gut of a deer..so i have to say the head sucked...if it is such a awesome head it should have made up for his poor placement...but it didnt..so that leaves volumes to be said for a head that will not poke thru the stomach of a deer with a mathews bow set at 68lbs...
dont start of a argument cast...that is the facts , that is my opinion and that is that..i was asked for my opinon..there it is...
hyper shock on this hunt
October 25th, 2005, 10:30 AM
It did, it killed the deer and you recovered it. What did you expect, the deer to run 50 yards and die in seconds. That is unrealistic expectations.
Originally Posted by Mikie Day
October 25th, 2005, 10:45 AM
i guess i didnt expect it to lay in a swamp and suffer in pain for 15hrs ..like i said it was still warm the next day about noon...
what did i expect...i guess a quicker kill...and if the head had been all that ..then it should have been...
sorry for being unrealistic in wanting a mech head to work on a soft target...
i guess i just am crazy like that...
October 25th, 2005, 11:33 AM
A friend gut shot a deer with the very large Vortex. Not only did he get a large diameter opening hole, it basically gutted her.
The friend who was helping trail her said he was following a trail of guts. She did not go very far.
MHO is that I don't want a mech head that doesn't open on impact. I know my arrow is going to enter, I do not always know it's going to exit.
Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.
October 25th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Hey if you don't want the deer to lay in a swamp and suffer for 15hrs then teach your cousin or who ever how to shoot.
The broadheads are an amazing design, and worked just like they say they will. They hit something and cause an amazing amount of cutting damage.
Your cousin shoots a 68lb Q2 with a 400 gr arrow, so I'm just going to take a wild guess that he is probably shooting in the 250fps or less, I could be a little off, he probably has enough KE, but no matter the broadhead, it probably wouldn't have passed through.
There is no subsitute for a well placed shot, and a well practiced archer... Buy him a block and send him outside for some practice then you won't have to get sick about the deer suffering
October 25th, 2005, 12:33 PM
Bo Hunter, curious to hear more about your view of the Sonoran broadhead at Sonoranbowhunting.com.
October 25th, 2005, 12:38 PM
gee sorelooser..i guess not everyone is perfect as you...i am sure 99.9 % of all hunters have made a bad shot..because of verious reasons.sometime in the career..reguardless of his shooting skill..any head should pass thru a ponch...(and his bow shoots in the 260 fps range)..you say they work like they are suposed to..they hit and make all this damage..(sounds like you have been to the simanar) anyway..they obviously dont....and it is not just me saying this, search up some threads and you will see scores of complaints...
October 25th, 2005, 12:43 PM
I don't really have a view on it. What do you mean?
Bo Hunter, curious to hear more about your view of the Sonoran broadhead at Sonoranbowhunting.com
As far as comparing it to they Hypershock, I really don't think they are even in the same category from a design standpoint. I think the only similarity is the fact that they are both rearward opening heads that use a "trip lever" as an opening mechanism. However, the trip lever is not the ONLY opening mechanism on the Hypershock, nor is it the primary opening mechanism...
October 25th, 2005, 12:46 PM
The deer was shot in the guts! What kind of damage do you expect??
Yes as a matter of fact, I am perfect, just don't ask my wife to confirm that..
And yes I have made bad shots, the first deer I ever killed with a bow at 12 was a gut shot. I too looked all day for that deer and found her alive, the next day we found her in the same place dead..
He gut shot a deer, the deer suffered, that's what happens when you don't hit em' in the boiler room...It's not the broadhead the made the deer suffer, it's the shooter. That's the reality of it, it is something that we all have done or will do, before we hang up our bows, you just have to accept it as part of the game. It sucks, but it happens. Just quit blaming equipment....
October 25th, 2005, 12:52 PM
here is the fact...if the head had opened all the way the damage would have been enough (acording to the minds of hypershock) to kill her more quickly..but (and here is the sad truth of it) the head didnt open...so the cobination of his poor shot and poor design of broadhead is what made the deer suffer...if the head had passed thru the body fluid loss would have quickened the demise of the animal......so i guess the fault is shared...
without a doubt a muzzy or a thunder head would have sung right through it...(without a doubt) why???? because there is less engery loss on impact with a cut on contact head...the hyper shock uses up to much when it opens...that is a fact...in some cases there is no problems...but in this one there was...once is a mistake, twice is stupidity......
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