I may get flamed but I have a serious question about the Pro/AM at events like Indoor Nationals......
How do folks in this forum feel about a Pro in name only signing up for the Pro/Am? Should only the Pro's that shoot fairly strong scores, someone else can define that, sign up to have paying amateurs assigned to his/her team?
Personally, I think it's NOT a good thing for the NFAA or the Pro ranks in general when a Pro that can't shoot at least a 300/50 X game for example "leads" a team! I know that in Louisville this past weekend there weren't enough Pro's to only have 3 amateurs to a team but still I'd rather be denied a spot in the Pro/Am than to see the look on a kids face when he sees how his "Pro" shoots.
It is not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings or to embarrass anyone! I bet there are some experienced Pro's that feel the same way. It's one thing if a person wants to pay to play at a level at which they are not even remotely competitive. But it's another thing when the NFAA takes an amateur members money and assigns the previously mentioned "Pro" to be their team leader. I think it reflects poorly upon all NFAA Pro's.
I am not complaining about being stuck this past weekend........ :wink: My Pro did "ok"!!! Besides he's kind of likeable for a Hoyt shooter!
I personally agree. And have a fairly large group I shoot wih that feels the same. Even know some pros that talk a lot about ther pros that never shoot respectable scores. It's one thing to have a bad day or tournament. But a complete difference between that and never in any tournament even shooting a score that can keep up with even the top 10% of amateurs. Having to qualify is long overdue In my opinion. Sure they won't do it since money then goes down to payout but it would become something work at and respect, not a long standing joke for how an over Under on low scores will be
And may be wrong but thought at least I'm past pros got shooter points to participating In the event. Which I guess doesn't mean much since reo stood off to the side but there was a whole pile of them that dont shoot good scores up there with the amateurs. And same as you not trying to embarrass anyone. But self awareness is hard to see sometimes when efforts are given
i too agree, but its just about the money and making people feel good. what our biggest problem in archery and in the good old USA is, we teach our youth anyone can win and we all have a chance to be the best and that just is not true,many will never be good at anything most including myself are just average.but the few great archer`s of the past ,now and the future deserve better.
Qualifications to the pro division would be a good thing. I think the NFAA pro division should extend invites to to all amateur shooters who shoot a score above 300-58x(or equivalent Vegas or NAA/Outdoor Score) or better in an NFAA(or other) sanctioned tournament.
All of the pros i have shot with over the years would easily meet this requirement.
After the mess that happened at last years Pro/Am shoot at Louisville, I decided not to shoot it this year. A friend of mine did shoot it and all three amateurs on the bale did beat their assigned Pro.
Not sure if there are tax benefits to shooting Pro class?
Well guys,not everyone can shoot with Reo, or Braden G., or Levi.There has to be enough to spread the field out so everyone gets to shoot.You get 150 amateurs,and 10 reeeaaalllyy good Pros then it's 15 guys to every Pro.NFAA Nationals is the only event that has the "Pros" that are required to have a Pro Card.Iowa,Vegas,and other events are not covered by NFAA Pro card requirements.If you pay Championship entry money,any Joe can enter that division,and shoot with NFAA card Pros.And if you enter with Championship entry,you will shoot as a Pro in the Pro Am.Whether your top caliber ,or not.So then you might not even get a Pro,but a Joe that entered with Championship entry money.But yup Nationals is a delema with not enough Top Pros to go around.
I believe Any one entering the championship money like vegas cannot shoot as a pro at the indoor nationals or any other NFAA shoot unless they are card carrying Pros
That is what I'm saying Mike,Nationals is the only event that the Pro has to have a card to shoot in the Pro class,but the other events like Iowa etc,if you enter in the championship class you are considered a Pro in the Pro Am portion of the shoot.
You're pro card affects you're standing at all NFAA sanctioned shoots.
Sanctioned ProAms, States, Sectionals, Nationals.
Vegas is not a true NFAA event, hence the "open" type money format. Several of the ProAm events follow this same format. The difference is really only attributed to ProPoints and how they are awarded.
Shooting a ProAm without having a current card will not win you any points. It will affect your end of year standing.
Granted, this historically is really not given much weight or appreciation by GenPop or the pros but I'd really like to change that, going forward so that it means something financially and as an overall award as well.
For sure we would "as card carrying Pros" like to see everyone that wants to be called on the Pro line ,and shoot with us join the card carrying bunch.
This really is a slippery slope to go down. Part of being a pro is giving back, mixing in with amateure shooters and giving them a chance to shoot with the pros. The pros are shooting to help build the sport, the pro am money isn't really that much of a motivation. Those who feel cheated because your pro doesn't shoot better are missing the whole point, and griping about it will just make sure that pros stop getting involved in the event. It may be different now, but when I was a pro in name only, the organizers often went around begging for pros to shoot the pro am, or go to practice with the pros, because frankly not many wanted to spend the time. If you're a world class pro shooter, you are nearly guaranteed to end up with an amature who can't shoot well enough to get you in the money, and so you're much more likely to relax and prepare for the 'real competition'.
My hat's off to the pros who make time to shoot these events! We can't all be name-brand pros, but we can all give back more than we take out of the sport we love.
Another thought crossed my mind on this... if you're so good as an amateur that you expect to win your group and money at these events, then you should be joining the pro division and not complaining because your pro can't out shoot you.
Also, I've never met a pro who feels that anyone who isn't "top 10%" shouldn't be a pro, or that pros who don't shoot well enough damage the reputation of 'pros'... in truth, they appreciate the effort that these shooters are putting in and especially their entry fee, which goes into the winner's bank account. Without donors, the top 10% would be shooting for peanuts and everyone else would be dominating their state in the amateur divisions.
Well... not quite.. actually look at the scores. You take out the perennial top 10 pro shooters.. and the rest won't be dominating anything in the amateur division. Just because someone says they are a pro, doesn't mean their scores show they are. And I'm talking shooting side, not the promotional or salesy side. But if you look at the amateur division the last few years, you wouldn't be saying that outside the top 10% of the pros..the rest would dominate the amateurs.
May be off topic.. but I have a question.. regarding pro vs amateur...and who is what .. If you accept any money for shooting ie you win your class at what ever level... arnt you then by definition paid ... thus no longer an amateur but a professional????
As per shooting.... I dont really care who i shoot with from the pro ranks... I just enjoy the chance to shoot!!
Tony, the "pro division" in the NFAA is a division, like cubs or seniors, and is not to be confused with the dictionary definition of professional. In the NFAA you only win money if you are a pro, there is no payout for amateurs at all. Vegas is not an NFAA shoot, it is run by the WAF which is owned by the NFAA and run by the NFAA Council, and you can win money in any adult division.
Also, I highly doubt that ESPN decided not to cover an archer shooting for a million dollars because he didn't have to shoot a qualifying score, or because some pros at the event might not be better than all the amateurs.
Well that's not what I said. I said that nba and nhl are bigger so I understand that. Point was that I don't see any major sports marketing or media outlet showing just average joe archers chucking arrows in the 8 ring because no one really cares or wants to see that. Can't even have footage by bowjunky who's "in the industry" I guess do that How many conversations have been had about erring outside sponsorships? And that's going to come from poor performance illustrated and shown? I don't think so but could be wrong. Although if guess if it would happen that way it would've already. And I already said and showed that I don't shoot real pro scores yet, so no reason for me to "go pro" by paying $75. To me it doesn't make sense to have that so I don't want to add to what I consider a problem by doing that until I can compete with those guys. You disagree and that's cool. Doesn't need to be hard feelings for a disagreement in opinions. Not my ego that would get bruised if qualifications come out and I didn't make it, or if nothing happens and continues along same path.
don't disagree, gcab, it's your decision to go pro or stay amateur, no shame in either decision, but please do remember that the man in the arena is or could easily be you. I agree - no need to get angry or have any hard feelings... none here.
truth is : in archery the words pro archer is very loosely used so someone can just pay the $75.00 to be called a pro archer no matter his ability in archery. > these archer`s are suppose to be adults not school kids that think they all deserve " A`s".
i agree with gcab.
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