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Thread: Laminated vs. Unlaminated Limbs

  1. #1
    JustbackShooter Guest

    Laminated vs. Unlaminated Limbs

    Since coming back to the sport I can say that I have done my research and most of it had to be here on Archery Talk. I seems odd that with all this talk about limb problems no one has brought out the root of the problem. Years ago many companies used unlaminated limbs but although they were cheaper to use, found that they just did not hold up and most changed to the much more expensive laminated limbs requiring extra equipment, time and effort. No one has explained to me why some companies like Bowtech insist on remaining with the cheap non laminated limbs. Everyone thinks their customer service is so good when they send you another pair of the same kind of limbs when the originals break. Thread after thread has told of this, yet nothing changes. Common sense would dictate that there has to be a reason why the major companies would elect to use the more expensive limb design. Certainly no one has posted a thread stating that the unlaminated limbs are as good as the laminated ones, that would be stupid to say the least. So here it is: Can anyone defend using Unlaminated Limbs on an upper end bow?



  2. #2
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    hoyt found out the hard way on their redline limbs they had a bunch of cracked and broken limbs ... they were a uni directional carbon as well
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustbackShooter
    So here it is: Can anyone defend using Unlaminated Limbs on an upper end bow?
    Because people still buy them in droves.

    Not really an argumentative defense, but a real reason. I can say that I realize the structural superiority of laminated limbs - same reason "laminated" arrows like A/C/C's and X/10"s are so durable.
    5 lines of text.

  4. #4
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    I've been shooting archery since 1958. Laminated limbs feel smoother to me. My best shooting has been done with laminated limbs. Any pro worth sponsering will flat out stomp my butt with any sort of solid carbon or glass limbs. I have no illusions about the superiority of either. In the right hands; either is capable of producing perfect scores. It's always the Indian, never the bow.

  5. #5
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    I don't want liminated limbs on my bows,, I don't need limbs de-laminating in the HOT Nebraska sun on the 3D ranges!!





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    Quote Originally Posted by JustbackShooter
    Everyone thinks their customer service is so good when they send you another pair of the same kind of limbs when the originals break. Thread after thread has told of this, yet nothing changes.
    You don't own a Bowtech, so it is interesting you chose to make your long, drawn out point on this. Very interesting, but I guess you are just stirring the pot. My solution is that if having laminated limbs is the most important thing to you, shoot a Hoyt or a Barnsdale; problem solved and everyone is happy. If you want to say you have laminated limbs, and actually have the equivalent of a solid limb covered with shelf paper, then you have even more choices in bows. You never, ever have to buy a Bowtech, and you can brag to your buddies about your laminated limbs and how that is the key to happiness in life, and that you laugh at those who think otherwise. Everyone is now happy, and no one would need to troll. As to your "thread after thread of this"; I am curious. Do you really think a bow company should make changes in materials because you wrote this thread? You don't own a Bowtech, they are selling like hotcakes at a premium price with what according to any dealer you ask is a very small warranty return rate, but because you and others write these type of threads, they should listen to you and make changes? Is that really logical? Just stirring the pot, huh?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LeesburgGamecoc
    You don't own a Bowtech, so it is interesting you chose to make your long, drawn out point on this. Very interesting, but I guess you are just stirring the pot. My solution is that if having laminated limbs is the most important thing to you, shoot a Hoyt or a Barnsdale; problem solved and everyone is happy. If you want to say you have laminated limbs, and actually have the equivalent of a solid limb covered with shelf paper, then you have even more choices in bows. You never, ever have to buy a Bowtech, and you can brag to your buddies about your laminated limbs and how that is the key to happiness in life, and that you laugh at those who think otherwise. Everyone is now happy, and no one would need to troll. As to your "thread after thread of this"; I am curious. Do you really think a bow company should make changes in materials because you wrote this thread? You don't own a Bowtech, they are selling like hotcakes at a premium price with what according to any dealer you ask is a very small warranty return rate, but because you and others write these type of threads, they should listen to you and make changes? Is that really logical? Just stirring the pot, huh?
    Couldn't have said it better myself! I'm with you too WWG! If I wanted laminated limbs I'd buy them not post about DUH

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    If my limbs go I can deal with it.Thats what a warranty is for. If not I will continue to shoot the best shooting bow I have ever owned....My Bowtech Old Glory.
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  9. #9
    Many times we are led to believe that something is better just because it is more complicated and more expensive. This is very true when it comes to laminated vs. solid limbs. All a limb does is store energy and transfer that energy to the string and arrow. Solid limbs are very good and most people would not know the difference if they shot either limb without looking at them first. Many companies offer nothing but solid limbs and their bows shoot very well. Other than price and a 2-3 fps difference, there is no real difference between laminated and solid limbs.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by automan26
    there is no real difference between laminated and solid limbs.

    Automan
    -except durability!

  11. #11
    I don't think the original poster said or expressed anything to deserve being mocked by a couple other posters. He stated how he has recently come back to the sport and is looking for solid information...the "why." He wrote a clear and cogent post and asked a legitimate question. He certainly did nothing to warrant a mocking response.

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    Solid information or laminated information?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhorne
    Solid information or laminated information?
    LMAO

  14. #14
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    Smile Laminated

    Most knowlegeable archers realize that laminated limbs are superior to block limbs. If you want laminated limbs buy a Hoyt, Martin, or Barnsdale or you could have Barnsdale make replacement limbs for whatever bow you have. It is interesting to me that there are top end bows with top end prices being shipped with solid billet limbs. Nothing wrong with billet limbs, but for $700+ you would really expect more. As far as limbs delaminating in the heat, I don't know any place any hotter in the summer than my native Texas and I have never had a limb delaminate. I have seen billet limbs fail that were left in a hot car but I feel sure the laminated limbs would fail in that situation as well. The bottom line is that it is your money and only you can decide what you will settle for.
    Jbird

  15. #15
    Before anyone goes to bashing me, let me say this: I have owned Hoyt, Mathews, and Bowtech. Liked all of them. Just got another Bowtech. I did have limb problems with my '05 Allegiance's limbs and it was 80#'s. Treated well by customer service, but just lost comfidence in it and sold it. The guy that bought hasn't had an ounce of trouble with it and it has 70# limbs on it. My Mathews eats cables like none other and I will have to put my 4th set on within a year if I keep shooting it some. I don't see people bashing Mathews for this occurence near as much as people bash Bowtech.

    Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Bowtech did try laminated limbs and that they had a higher failure rate than the billet limbs? I don't believe it has anything to do with price. I had read somewhere that they had tried to use laminated limbs on the Binary Cams, but the stress was too much near the axles and ended up splitting out the limb tips on the lamainated limbs. Can anyone back me up on this? Thanks, Bryan

  16. #16
    MRTNRocks Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by INDBowhunter
    Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Bowtech did try laminated limbs and that they had a higher failure rate than the billet limbs? I don't believe it has anything to do with price. I had read somewhere that they had tried to use laminated limbs on the Binary Cams, but the stress was too much near the axles and ended up splitting out the limb tips on the lamainated limbs. Can anyone back me up on this? Thanks, Bryan
    No, I don't believe anyone can.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbird
    Most knowlegeable archers realize that laminated limbs are superior to block limbs. If you want laminated limbs buy a Hoyt, Martin, or Barnsdale or you could have Barnsdale make replacement limbs for whatever bow you have. It is interesting to me that there are top end bows with top end prices being shipped with solid billet limbs. Nothing wrong with billet limbs, but for $700+ you would really expect more. As far as limbs delaminating in the heat, I don't know any place any hotter in the summer than my native Texas and I have never had a limb delaminate. I have seen billet limbs fail that were left in a hot car but I feel sure the laminated limbs would fail in that situation as well. The bottom line is that it is your money and only you can decide what you will settle for.
    Jbird
    I think the bottom line is the main driving force and is not product quality. Less face it, the major buyers of bows is hunters. Many don't know beans about their bow and general buy a brand. Then they shoot it a few times before they go hunting.

    Now, I am sure the block limb technology had improved over the years. But, the manufactures are not real worried about warranty, etc. They only warranty to the original owner and after he sells in a couple of years, they are off the hook.

    But, I think the majority of these block limb failures are more user and shop related than manufacturing, anyway. Too many guys trying to shoot too light of an arrow, not taking proper care of their equipment, and too many shop owners using old presses and/or improper techniques.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunghit
    If my limbs go I can deal with it.Thats what a warranty is for. If not I will continue to shoot the best shooting bow I have ever owned....My Bowtech Old Glory.
    I agree,, it's all about the way my bows shoot I can surely buy a Hoyt or Barnsdale bow if I want to get the supposedly best limbs on the market on a bow, but it wouldn't be my choice in what I want it to do FOR ME I'll take my "chances" on the limbs, everyone does with whatever bow they choose. So far with about 13 different bows between my wife and I,, we haven't seen any problems with anything on our bows
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhorne
    Solid information or laminated information?
    Now THAT'S FUNNY
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  20. #20
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    Maybe by using a billet limb they can get a more consistent limb deflection rate? I haven't seen any bow that is much more than 1 pound over advertised peak weight on the birth certificate. They are VERY consistent performers for sure
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  21. #21
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    Thumbs down

    There is alot of anti-Bowtech limb cracking BS here on AT! Some of you guys just gulp that stuff down and then help spread the rumors, like a bunch of gossiping girls! And I would bet most of you don't own a Bowtech!

  22. #22
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    I wish they all had laminated limbs. Still shoot my old jennings occasionally with the wood core laminated limbs...talk about a nice feeling shot, even with 35% letoff. My new Trykon feels even better. I don't worry about them delaminating in the 100 degree summers. They haven't yet. I worry more about guys pressing their bows wrong or running over them than failures of either style.

    Billet limbs are more manufacturer friendly. You can grind em however you want them. Hey this batch is 5 pounds over for deflection, grind 'em down some more (there's not much of a scrap pile behind Gordon's facility ). The newer epoxies are far superior to what they were not very long ago and make for a product that comes very close to a laminated limb and probably has only a slight increase in failure. They're a good economical choice, but they are still my second choice.

    You'd think that after all these years we could come up with an indestructible limb by armoring, compressing, laminating, etc. Somebody call NASA and see what they can come up with.
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  23. #23
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    Laminated limbs are superior to solid limbs.

    "Barnsdale limbs are the best in the world".

    I've heard these two statements or a close approximation of them on here numerous times from several different people. The thing I don't see is any scientific or statistical evidence. There's alot of "Well my buddy shoots brand X and this happened to his bow so they all must be junk".

    Maybe the two statements above are true, maybe they're not. I don't know.

    I'm in a learning mood today, so help me out. Teach me something about limbs.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsnore
    There is alot of anti-Bowtech limb cracking BS here on AT! Some of you guys just gulp that stuff down and then help spread the rumors, like a bunch of gossiping girls! And I would bet most of you don't own a Bowtech!
    For sure, but when people post pictures to back it up, that gets my attention. I love the Old Glory, and can't wait to get my hands on an Elite Energy.

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    The Real Facts

    Here is the real truth. As I have stated before, laminated limbs are far superior to billet limbs. Why do companies use just billets. They don't have the equipment to laminate and a billet is 1/3 the cost. I can guarantee one thing. You will have MUCH MORE BREAKAGE with solid billets (solid block). That was the technology most of the industry used before the composite lamination material and process was developed. When cams and wheels were smaller it was not as much of a problem. As the cams got bigger, limbs got shorter the problem really became a major concern.
    It would be great to be able to make a limb again without going through all the other processes but they just don't last like laminated limbs.
    I have been designing compounds since 1974 and have learned a few things. You can take my word for it or take you chances on your bow breaking on that once in a lifetime shot.
    We did not just decide one day to spend 3 times as much to make a limb and buy expensive heat presses and glue just for the fun of it.
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