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Thread: Using a calculator to get sight marks

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Question Using a calculator to get sight marks

    Can anyone tell me the formula to calculate a sight tape with a scientific calculator.?????



  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I guarantee that it would be quicker to:

    a) just go out and buy OnTarget2 or one of the other archery programs

    or

    b)shoot your sight marks in.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Williamstown WV
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    i agree, but i have a partial set of marks for a shoot tomorrow. just wanted to check the ones i dont have..

  4. #4
    Back in the late 1970's and up into the mid 1990's, there was a "calculator based" sight setting sheet based upon pretty much the same (or close to it) numbering scale used on most sites today.

    Killian Chek-it, I think, made a steel rule that fit on the site bar. It was made out of metal and you double sticked it to the site bar, sited in at 20 and 65 yards, and then "calculated" your site settings by use of some formulas and a calculator. The formulas are based upon the difference between the 20 and 65 yard marks (spread) times a number carried out to six or seven places...and it gets them near dead on (with a 10% error at 70 and 80.....which I never seem to have had quite that much error).

    The good thing about it....the doggoned thing WORKED...and I still use it today to cross-check AA...and find it to be pretty close...but AA being better, especially on the 70 and the 80 yarders.

    I have put this onto an excel spreadsheet and automated the sight settings for field/hunter rounds printout so that it fits on my placard I use on the site bar. I NEVER put the sticker onto my bow limbs...never have and never will.

    If you e-mail me, I can send you the excel spread sheet with the formulas on it, since I'm too lazy to type all those formulas on here! The formulas were commonly available back then, but I haven't seen new "issues" of them since AA came out.

    By the way, I used this calculator based sight settings generator to CROSS CHECK my shot in marks that I was using when I was shooting my best scores back in the late 1980's to mid-1990's....and it always showed some tiny discrepancies with my shot-in marks....but only minor ones that would help my scores some.

    For example, my tendencies were to "mess up" my shot in marks on the 23, the 28, the 32, and the 36 for some reason...but this calculator based program would gimme the "corrections" for those flaws. It was probably a result of the 20 yarder that I shot in not being accurate enough. I always seemed to get more accurate settings at longer distances.....

    field14

    field14
    Last edited by field14; September 2nd, 2006 at 10:58 PM.
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  5. #5
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    what is the formula, field 14

  6. #6
    There is a DIFFERENT formula for each yard between 15 and 100 yards....or actually a different "multiplier" times the difference between your 20 and 65 plus the 20 yard setting.

    So, for example, the 20 yard setting is 40.4 on the scale, and the 65 yard setting on the scale is 73.7. This leaves a "gap" between 20 and 65 of 33.3 (the KEY NUMBER). So, for the 30 yard site mark, the formula is:

    33.3 (gap) Times 0.1765 plus 40.4 (the 20 yard setting),= 46.3 for the 30 yard site setting. (If your site is a ten click scale). You can set excel to round to two decimals if you have a 20 click unit.
    For the 80 yarder:

    33.3 times 1.3820 plus 40.4 = 86.4 for your 80 yard setting.

    Normally, when I cross check these with AA, they are within 0.1 of what AA comes up with...

    However, the calculator based version doesn't give anything below 15 yards...so you need to shoot in the 14 and the 11 and the bunny settings...which I do anyways, even when using AA. In the "old days" we would site in high intentionally, normally at the top of the X-ring...and that way, when we tired, we know we would be on and not sag out the bottom. hahaha, since most of us tended to shoot low when we got tired.

    With care, this sucker works...but again, it is only as good as you spend the time to get the marks for 20 and 65 as good as you can get them by shooting LOTS of groups and taking out the bad shots and not settling for slop. If you have a bad 20, then this will throw everything from 15 up thru 40 off. If you have a bad 65, then most of the time everything from 44 on out is off. Works the same way with AA...that is why so few of us use 20 yards as the first setting in AA...we go for a SOLID and accurate 30 yarder and then a super accurate 65 or 70.

    Again, e-mail me, cuz I ain't for typing all those formulas here on AT.

    field14
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by field14 View Post
    There is a DIFFERENT formula for each yard between 15 and 100 yards....or actually a different "multiplier" times the difference between your 20 and 65 plus the 20 yard setting.

    So, for example, the 20 yard setting is 40.4 on the scale, and the 65 yard setting on the scale is 73.7. This leaves a "gap" between 20 and 65 of 33.3 (the KEY NUMBER). So, for the 30 yard site mark, the formula is:

    33.3 (gap) Times 0.1765 plus 40.4 (the 20 yard setting),= 46.3 for the 30 yard site setting. (If your site is a ten click scale). You can set excel to round to two decimals if you have a 20 click unit.
    For the 80 yarder:

    33.3 times 1.3820 plus 40.4 = 86.4 for your 80 yard setting.

    Normally, when I cross check these with AA, they are within 0.1 of what AA comes up with...

    However, the calculator based version doesn't give anything below 15 yards...so you need to shoot in the 14 and the 11 and the bunny settings...which I do anyways, even when using AA. In the "old days" we would site in high intentionally, normally at the top of the X-ring...and that way, when we tired, we know we would be on and not sag out the bottom. hahaha, since most of us tended to shoot low when we got tired.

    With care, this sucker works...but again, it is only as good as you spend the time to get the marks for 20 and 65 as good as you can get them by shooting LOTS of groups and taking out the bad shots and not settling for slop. If you have a bad 20, then this will throw everything from 15 up thru 40 off. If you have a bad 65, then most of the time everything from 44 on out is off. Works the same way with AA...that is why so few of us use 20 yards as the first setting in AA...we go for a SOLID and accurate 30 yarder and then a super accurate 65 or 70.

    Again, e-mail me, cuz I ain't for typing all those formulas here on AT.

    field14

    How do you come to 1.3820 and 0.1765?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by geertdv View Post
    How do you come to 1.3820 and 0.1765?
    Those are the multipliers for those two distances. Those numbers were the "key elements" of the calculator based site setting system. This system, I think, was part of the site scale unit that Killian Chek-it sites came up with back in the early 1980's. There was a metal site tape that fit onto the vertical bar that had the "numbers" scribed on it. You simply "stuck" the metal tape onto the vertical bar, and those "numbers" became the ones you used to calculate and then set your site to for different distances.

    That is the system I used for many years, and still use to "cross-check" OT2 and AA to this very day! I converted it to an Exel spreadsheet that made the site settings used for field and hunter rounds the size of a placard that I put onto my site extension bar.

    I used this system in the later 1980's and early 1990's to shoot many a 554+ field/hunter round. In fact, my best ever outdoor score (557) was shot using a Killian Chek-it Site, with a 6X Magna-site scope, and this site setting system. I still have that Killian Chek-it site and the Magna Site scope. I purchased the Killian Chek-it site from Frontier Archery in Sacremento California back in early 1973. Still works just fine, too.
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  9. #9
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    Agree with ( B )...The only really accurate method I have found is to actually shoot the distance with your setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I guarantee that it would be quicker to:

    a) just go out and buy OnTarget2 or one of the other archery programs

    or

    b)shoot your sight marks in.
    According to the current regime Americans are too stupid to retain individual freedom...

  10. #10
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    Rob, I think what you're looking for is quadratic regression
    Charter Member LOFT Archery Team
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    I do own OT2, but I have also played with trying to fit a regression to a set of data points.Basically, once I was sighted in at 20, 40, and 60 I was able to put these points on the X axis and their corresponding sight marks (off the standard sureloc scale) on the Y axis. Once you have that data in, you can try fitting a number of different types of curves to the data. The end results have been mixed. I have been able to get a pretty good fit, but only over a short range, never anything that I could extrapolate out.

    My experience with OT2 has been fair, but I sill shoot in 10 yd increments to the maximum that I want to sight and then use those fixed 10 yd points and let the computer fill in between them.

    Mitch
    '13 Barnsdale My Addiction, SureLoc Challenger, Extreme Scope, BriteSite ProTuner, Underground Archery Products Stabilizers, Black Eagle Arrows, FirstStrings, Stan Blackjack
    '14 Elite E35, Black Gold Ascent, VaporTrail ProV, Underground Archery Product Stabilizers, Black Eagle Arrows, TightSpot, FirstStrings, Scott LBG

  12. #12
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    How are you taking into account arrow weight, arrow drag and sight to peep radius? Each one of these will have an effect on the multiplier.....

    In a vacuum, the multiplier would stay the same across all distances, but we all know that site marks get farther apart as the distance increases....

    I shoot in the ranges at 10yds, put them in the program, tweak the program, print a tape and go test it.

    I also will carry Archers Mark on my iPod to big events...

    SB

    p.s - you can use the web version of Archers Mark for free on your smartphone....
    Just put it in the middle and shoot!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooltech View Post
    Agree with ( B )...The only really accurate method I have found is to actually shoot the distance with your setup.
    Shooting them in isn't quite as accurate as one would think! Of course, before the calculator based system came in, that is how nearly all of us got our site marks.
    It was great to have the calculator system, go out and get an ACCURATE 20 and 65 yard setting and work on getting those down as close to perfect as possible, and then calculate the rest "in" and then go out and test shoot and compare to your "shot-in" marks. I would ALWAYS find several "shot in marks" that were WAY off. In addition, I also found that the 23 yarder on the calculator system was off some (always shot low), so I found a more accurate multiplier and corrected the calculator system to use that number and it worked just fine.

    The entire key to all of this is ACCURATE 20 and 65 for the calculator based...and SUPER ACCURATE 30 and 60, or 65 yard marks for the OT2 or AA programs, along with SUPER ACCURATE measurements for peep height and site extension!! You get a rotten 30 yarder (or 20 yarder) and a half baked 60 or 65, and you might as well chuck it...cuz ALL of your marks are going to be crummy.

    I always site in on a horizontal line of tape...3/4" wide at 30 yards, 1.5" wide at 65 yards and shoot for ALL shots hitting the tape solidly. THEN and only then do I know that the mark is good enough to enter into the system. COUNT CLICKS too, a couple of clicks makes a huge difference in a set of site marks!
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

  14. #14
    Amazing in that Terry Ragsdale and Joe Kapp (the first two EVER to shoot a perfect 560 Hunter round in National Competition) were using a combo of "calculator based" and shot in sight marks....and got the job done without the "computer assisted "site radius", drag coefficient, and arrow weight.
    560 is 560 and was first done LONG BEFORE the advent of iPods, clinometers, and electronic gadgetry.

    Nothing like experience, confidence, and PRACTICE to get the job done. IMHO shooters would be better served by the "P" word than by a computer they carry around with them and depend upon. Just my opinion, but I beg to say that 95% of we mere mortals out on the courses can't HOLD WELL ENOUGH to do the COMPUTER CALCULATIONS justice anyways. Change your stance just slightly, or your alignment, or YOU not being adaptable to the odd ball postions you sometimes run into on a field course, and all bets are off on whether the computer assist will help or not. Add in the FACT that oftentimes, the shooting stakes themselves can be off a nudge...and.....well....EXPERI ENCE and just learning how to read the targets and make the needed FORM adjustments will carry a person farther than the computer assist.

    field14 (Tom D.)
    Just let it float and SHOOT THE SHOT! Author of: "ProActive Archery", "The Puzzled Archer", "The Puzzled Cyclist".
    -field14 (Tom D.)

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