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Thread: New USA Archery/NFAA Basic Instructor Manual

  1. #1

    New USA Archery/NFAA Basic Instructor Manual

    A little more than a month ago, NADA started shipping the newest Basic instructor training manual for certification courses with USA Archery and NFAA. This manual replaces the USA Archery Level 1 Fourth Edition, and for the first time combines the certification of USA Archery with NFAA for this level. This joint certification will make it much easier to promote the training of new instructors, since most of the recreation agencies we deal with just want the training, and not to have to pick which certification they get.

    The manual was produced under the supervision and control of both USA Archery and NFAA.

    Since this is a new manual, many a weary eye has looked it over for correct techniques as well as correct depictions of those techniques. The manual was peer-reviewed by a number of active course instructors, the USA Archery CDC and NFAA. Their comments have been incorporated in the final published version. Could it be better? Sure, everything in print could be better. However, to make it better, we need to know its faults. I hope many of you are certified course instructors who will use this manual during this 2007 training season. For those of you who do use it, you opinion is vital in order to make the next printing even better, and to make any corrections that need to be made. I hope those opinions are expressed to our office, where they will do the most good. No comment is too harsh, if it can be justified. Our email is info@teacharchery.org. Our phone number and address can be found on our traditional website, www.teacharchery.org, and our new website www.worldarcherycenter.com.

    For those of you who have not yet used the book for an instructor training course, let me give you some highights: It's now printied in full color, and focuses on teaching proper shot technique in a general recreation setting. It depicts both recurve and compound bows, contains several of the introductory NADA Drills & Skills found in our GO Archery materials, and includes a sample lesson plan for instructor who have their archers for a short period of time. For those course instructors who teach a Basic course this season, call us and we'll send you a free copy for your own use as you teach the courses.

    On a personal note, I'd like to thank the hundreds of course instructors and coaches who teach thousands of beginner instructors each year. Since 2001, there have been over 26,000 new certified instructors trained in this country. According to our surveys of recreation program directors, each year's graduating class of new instructors (about 7,000) goes on to teach almost 1.8 million new archers! Many of you have worked with NADA as a training partner, and have no doubt received one of our immortal phone calls that starts "Hi, can you teach an instructor class at...?" Thank you very much for saying yes. There is no person I respect more than a coach who spends their valuable time teaching new instructors. We are an extended family in this, and I thank heaven that I have gotten the chance to work with you.



    If you have any questions about the new materials, or questions how NADA operates, please let us know. If you know areas where NADA needs improvement, by all means we'd love to have you.

    Have a great training season,
    Doug Engh
    Pres/CEO NADA


  2. #2
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    basic instructor manual

    Is this the manual referenced in this thread? If so, it sounds as if John might have some constructive criticism.

    -Andrew

  3. #3
    I have been in archery a while now. I was scheduled to take a level one course and when I saw how messed up this manual was I withdrew.

    1. The manual is completely out of order. Why would you teach a brand new person to archery who will go out and coach at a boy scout camp or girl scout camp or whatever kind of camp, in the order of this manual? The instructor told me not to worry about that, because he would teach in his order and not the manual order. Why would you force a level 2 coach to change the order of the manual? Do you think a camp coach will remember that, no they will refer back to the manual.

    2. Why on earth would you teach a child to draw the string to the side of their nose? This photo in the manual (mind you I don't have one in front of me because I didn't want to waste $20), but there is a photo of a young girl drawing the string to the corner of her mouth with the string about 1/4" from her eye. Do you know how hard that is to break? Even if it wasn't why would you teach it?

    3. The Level 2 teaching the course told me there are questions on the test that are not covered in the manual! That's real smart.

    4. You actually teach instructors to string a bow with the step through method. That is really hard on limbs and causes them to twist. Not exactly the best method to teach someone.

    I did not read the manual cover to cover because I was not purchasing it. All I did was look through it and jump far away from it. I want nothing to do with anything that teaches archery in such a fashion. I am sure that if you needed photos for the manual you could have easily contacted any of the top JOAD teams or anyone with TX Archery who already takes a ton of photos to get specific type photos for you. Rather then showing stuff that is so wrong it is sad. Remember a photo is worth a 1000 words. They remember the photo and not the words. String to the nose and photo to the side of the nose, which do you suppose they will do?

  4. #4
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    ouch! Pulling to the corner of the mouth is standard practice. Most young children will want to pull to the corner of the eye.

    What questions from the exam are not covered in the manuel? I am sure they want to know so they can fix it. Not sure about order of the manuel either.

    The step through method is best "no stringer' method. The other is the push-pull where you can loose an eye. Many camps do not have any bow stringers.

    Why I am trying to defend the manuel? Because I know the people involved are trying to do their best. No one is getting rich from this. Not alot of people are willing to work hard to help archery grow, but if some one does it seems that there are lot of people willing to yell from the sidelines how they are doing it all wrong. Alot of volunteers walk away from archery because the abuse outweighs the benefits.

    So should we all just shut up? No, of course not. But there really are benefits to constructive criticism. I have used the the old manuel and didn't see it to be horrible. I am sure they can improve it and I am sure they will.

    How can we help? By providing detailed and exact feedback. The more detailed the suggestions the more likely the concerns can be addressed.

    I apologize if I seem abrupt or rude, that is not my intention. I have just seen so many people walk away from helping, we should be working together , not against.
    Rabies Free since June 2005
    Sports Psychology Consultant with a Degree! Talk to me about your mental game

  5. #5
    If you are serious about comments and criticism, make it available online as a locked PDF.

    If you are worried about revenue loss a locked PDF file can made unprintable as well as uneditable.

  6. #6
    I don't have a problem pulling to the corner of the mouth as long as they teach to put the nose on the string. You want some success early and that is not the way to get.

    I did come across a bit harsh and I apologize. I should have not have been that way. I just walked away when I saw how bad the manual was. I have been shooting a long time and have not ever coached until recently when my daughter got involved. I have now become a student of the game again and its been fun. I suppose I should take the course just have the card, but it was the principle of the thing.

    I agree, put the manual on the web in a locked format so it cannot be copied and pasted nor printed. Then you can get some good imput, from those that have coached a long time.

  7. #7
    Greetings,
    I've been asked to respond to the postings regarding the new Basic Instructor Manual that has now been produced. I'm glad a few of you have taken an interest in discussing the manual on this forum. Since these postings are informal personal discussions that have no follow-up, I look forward to your phoning/emailing the NADA office with your official concerns and reference points. All feedback will then be sent out for peer review and comment. Please provide your contact information should we need to dicuss any points with you, and get a better understanding of your comments.

    This is a pretty good time for this, since we will be re-ordering materials sometime during the summer. The training manual technically belongs to the instructors, and it is our purpose to deliver the best materials to them.

    Thanks again for those of you who contact the office with comments. You can also email the office with exact page numbers and concerns. Generalized comments usually aren't that helpful. Please provide your proposed remedy for any concern you raise. Have a great trainnig season.

    Best,
    Doug Engh
    NADA
    (352) 472-2388
    www.WorldArcheryCenter.com
    info@teacharchery.org

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NADA View Post
    Since these postings are informal personal discussions that have no follow-up, I look forward to your phoning/emailing the NADA office with your official concerns and reference points.
    The comments only have no follow up if you choose not to participate in the thread, though I can see the rationale for not doing so since threads can be more contentious than productive.

    For the most part I'm pretty impressed with the clarity and utility of the revised materials. I could quibble (and may do so in future ) but on balance I'd say NADA did a very good job of navigating the minefield that is putting together a combined NAA/NFAA basic manual approved by committee.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  9. #9
    Those old, original manuels that we all are used to using were difficult to teach from, the material encouraged the instructor to "wing it" when they taught... we had to have plenty of different ways to "skin this cat", so to speak. Then, they were so outdated, dummied down, redundant, it was just impossible to teach a good class with it alone, without interjecting alternative information and methods.
    The new books have new theories, more modern teaching materials (example, the new CD in the Level 2 class is super!), and it is easier to get through. It could use some polish, but, it is a great improvement over what we had.... I do miss the string making part of the Level 2... I was always getting requests to teach string making in my Level 2 classes. they were fun...

    We have to remember that the people charged with rewriting this course were under a lot of guideance by others..... they were given specific guidelines and they had to have everything they put in those manuels approved by one of THOSE infamous NAA committees we keep complaining about here on ArcheryTalk....along with others that had real issues with anyone making changes to the materials. I think the guys at NADA deserve a pat on the back for having stuck in there through the whole process, and are still willing to fight the good fight with it.

    I believe if there is any issue here, it might be the courses themselves. The Level 1 course was originally written to address the needs of the short, summer camp environment, not the JOAD, NASP environment. And while the basics are the same... they are still two entirely different needs, and their should be two different courses.

    The Level 2 might be more for the above mentioned groups... but, then what do we do with summer camp people that want a Level 2 course in order to do more of their own certifications? In the new material, they do get more attention on how to teach with the new books, that is great!

    but...they need information on how to purchase, and care for their equipment... development and sturcturing of archery activities in the camp environment... assesment of the individual camp archery program itself,

    and my favorite pet subject.....

    Where to sent the camp kids after they leave camp in order to continue their new found interest in archery.

    These are just a few of the subjects that I think need to go into a camp instruction booklet...I am sure that all of the others out there that have been teaching for years like I have, have plenty of good ideas they would like to see implemented.

    Hard for me to understand why we have to have only one course to cover all needs....... wierd.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gonehuntin View Post

    but...they need information on how to purchase, and care for their equipment... development and sturcturing of archery activities in the camp environment... assesment of the individual camp archery program itself,


    .
    This is my "pet" subject. You can teach til your blue in the face, and have kids who hang on every word and try their little hearts out. Then, you hand them fiberglass bow with the grips so worn they are esentially shooting off their hand, wood arrows with plastic vanes, a string so old the brace height is 4" and the rubber in the nocking point is gone (if there even is a nocking point) no armguards, arrows on the ground, and did I mention these are 25# bows (I've measured "25#" glass bows as heavy as 34#) for 6 & 7 year olds! (Oh yeah, and there are 20 of them sharing 6 bows and you have 1 useless CIT to help you!) End result = bad experience! So many camp programs are useless, in my opinion. Teaching at camp is only 30% about form, the other 70% is about equipment set-up, maintenence, proper equipment sizing, smart ordering for your budget, establishing reasonable group size and age, and most importantly, how to teach and start large groups efficiently. Is this covered in the new handbook? I am curious to see, because it was not discussed in enough detail before. I am going to order a copy to review asap.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by In the shadows View Post
    This is my "pet" subject. You can teach til your blue in the face, and have kids who hang on every word and try their little hearts out. Then, you hand them fiberglass bow with the grips so worn they are esentially shooting off their hand, wood arrows with plastic vanes, a string so old the brace height is 4" and the rubber in the nocking point is gone (if there even is a nocking point) no armguards, arrows on the ground, and did I mention these are 25# bows (I've measured "25#" glass bows as heavy as 34#) for 6 & 7 year olds! (Oh yeah, and there are 20 of them sharing 6 bows and you have 1 useless CIT to help you!) End result = bad experience! So many camp programs are useless, in my opinion. Teaching at camp is only 30% about form, the other 70% is about equipment set-up, maintenence, proper equipment sizing, smart ordering for your budget, establishing reasonable group size and age, and most importantly, how to teach and start large groups efficiently. Is this covered in the new handbook? I am curious to see, because it was not discussed in enough detail before. I am going to order a copy to review asap.
    I guess my "camp setup" is not the norm.

    Warbow can attest to my camp equipment..

    RE: the new manuals, when I started to plan our L1 class, I didn't have the new manuals to do my planning so I started and wrote my teaching outlines based on the old info and what I felt was needed to teach a safe, fun class. (the main goal of a L1). When I received the new manuals and exams I had to modify my lesson plan a little but I think it worked out well. I think the way L1 classes need to be run is a dynamic thing. The instructor needs to understand their audience and teach the course accordingly.

    I found the new manuals a good move in the right direction. Yes they need work but so do I..

    My suggestions and requests will be put in writing and sent off to NADA for consideration.

    "If you are not part of the fix, then you are just another part of the problem"

    DC
    Last edited by dchan; December 21st, 2007 at 02:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dchan View Post
    I guess my "camp setup" is not the norm.

    Warbow can attest to my camp equipment..
    Indeed. If the summer camps I went to as a kid had good equipment and coaching like David has put together I might of been inspired to take it up then rather than much, much later as an adult. I know that David worked hard with the camp to rework their inventory of equipment which is something that many camp counselors don't have the opportunity to do.

    I think the NADA/USAA/NFAA training does try to address the issue of equipment at least a little but it is a tough subject since camp counselors often are brought in and expected to use existing equipment without complaint. It isn't the certified coaches who need to be convinced of the need for good equipment as much as the camp management who have limited budgets and don't realized how much better the quality of the experience can be with decent gear.

    I'd also agree with In the shadows that there should be more information on pedagogy--especially how to teach to kids and kids in groups specifically. Although I have taught seminars (not in archery, mind you) to grade school and middle school kids, I know I have much to learn about teaching since I'm not a professional teacher.

    This all brings up the issue that gonehuntin alluded to, which is where do kids go from short term programs. I suspect for the most part they simply see archery as something you do at camp and they don't know that there are archery programs for kids outside of camp, at least that was how I saw it as a kid. It would never have occurred to me to seek out archery then they way I did other sports. Nor would I have wanted to based on the crappy camp equipment. It didn't seem like something to aspire to do. But for those kids who are inspired, it would seem referrals to JOAD programs in general would be the primary way to go, especially for camps that have kids from a wider geographic area.
    Last edited by Warbow; December 21st, 2007 at 02:50 AM.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchan View Post
    RE: the new manuals, when I started to plan our L1 class, I didn't have the new manuals to do my planning so I started and wrote my teaching outlines based on the old info and what I felt was needed to teach a safe, fun class. (the main goal of a L1). When I received the new manuals and exams I had to modify my lesson plan a little but I think it worked out well.
    I think this brings up an issue with the roll out of the new materials. They were initially released, as described by Doug Engh in the OP, in March but existing instructors don't see them until they they teach a class since the training materials are not available on-line for review. Perhaps this will change. NADA at one time had a pilot program to teach Drills and Skills on line, so perhaps they may put other materials on line for existing coaches to review.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  14. #14
    Greetings and a Merry Christmas to you all,,
    I was alerted that there were some issues being posted here for reply. As I mentioned before, I don't frequent this forum, but will post information if we get questions or if somene tells me that NADA is a topic of conversation. I read a couple of these posts, and there still seems to be some confusion.

    Regarding the roll-out of new curriculum: NADA is a membership organization of coaches and instructors (hence the "Alliance" part of the name), which is under contract with both USA Archery and NFAA to compile and publish THEIR curriculum. This currculum is then distributed by NADA on their brehalfs. We don't determine it's content, and it does not serve our purpose to distrubute materials that are not per the wishes of the associations. As the publisher, we work with each organization's version of a coaches committee to determine what the content should be, and how it should be delivered. We then complete the project, submit the materials to each committee for peer review. The review period is normally 30 days, at which time, we collect the comments, do whatever rewriting/reformating that is required, resubmit for 1 week to make sure all the comments were addressed, the send everything to the printer. We then send out press releases that new curriculum has been created, and invite ANYONE who is of the proper grade level to contact us for a free copy prior to the training session. If you aren't reading your mail from us, or if you are not in the USA Archery/NFAA coaches review network, you need to adjust your level of communications.

    We sometimes stray slightly from the official review network and slip a few protype copies to some of the more active course instructors to get their opinions. I doubt we would ever post any protype on any website for viewing by coaches using screenames. I realize, this is a great place to meet and exchange ideas and gossip, but it really isn't helpful to us as a formal way to communicate since we never really know who is offering the advice unless you phone us, and I don't read these posts very often.

    Also, the materials we publish need to be reviewed through official channels (per our contracts) and approved by the various boards of directors. My suggestion would be to either give us a call and ask for a protype the next time we do a revision (or respond to us for a free copy when we send out announcements), or contact your associations and ask to be part of their review program, or even offer to help us write the materials (we'll pay you to do it).

    At this time, let's say you've found some areas that need improving, or mistakes that we missed. I ask again that you document what you have found, and let us know directly so we can combine your comments with others we've received in order to make the improvements for the next printing. Since I've stated a few times that I am not a regular on this forum, never expect any of your postings here to actually get to anyone in our office. You can call the office, or send me an email. From the number of emails and calls I get every day, I can only assume that I am easy to reach, and I pass on any feedack we get to the people who need to hear them most.

    Thanks again for taking an interest in this topic. It's near and dear to us. I hope you all have a happy holiday.

    Regards,
    Doug Engh
    NADA

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by NADA View Post
    I read a couple of these posts, and there still seems to be some confusion.
    Yes. Thank you for providing information to clarify the situation.

    Although you don't post frequently the posts you do make are generally detailed and informative. If there is confusion I'd see that as an opportunity to clarify the situation not only here but to also provide more information on NADA's website--perhaps not the level of detail you provided here but certainly more than is currently posted. Anyone reading your website would have no idea about the complex relationship you have in developing courseware. The USA Archery Logos and NFAA logos on the training booklets don't really make that evident since in many other contract education relationships an organization will hire an outside developer to create the courseware with input from the company or customize stock modules. A FAQ might be useful.

    NADA is a professional education facilitator and works hard to facilitate quality archery training around the country. I think NADA has some opportunities to improve communication with coaches, future coaches and the general public as evidenced by the confusion you noted here. While it is generous of you to suggest personal phone calls to you I think that is not a systemic answer. If there is confusion among otherwise informed coaches it may be indicative of a much wider need for communication outreach, wider than the occasional "I was notified" or "I was asked to respond" post here at AT or the subsequent offer of personal communications can effectively deal with. The web is were most people check these days for information so it would seem that the NADA website would be the primary touch point for people interested in NADA or NADA facilitated offerings. Thus the kind of answers you provide on a reactionary basis here could, instead, be offered proactively there.

    And as to sending you an email, another poster responding to your Coaching Forum post tried that and the there is a problem with the contact email on the website.

    You wrote:
    "Since I've stated a few times that I am not a regular on this forum, never expect any of your postings here to actually get to anyone in our office."
    That is your choice. As a registered AT Member you can easily use the Thread Tools to subscribe to the thread and be instantly alerted by email (assuming the e-mail address is functioning) of new posts to a thread. This would seem especially valuable to the thread starter and doubly so to anyone interested in public education and keeping the archery community abreast of the latest relevant information and has the insight and power to do so.
    Last edited by Warbow; December 21st, 2007 at 01:47 PM.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  16. #16
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    Doug,

    What is your personal email address at NADA? The info@teacharchery.org link on the contacts page incorrectly addresses emails to info@teacharchery.COM. I have no idea if anyone even reads those emails to the "info" address as I have had no reply.

    Are my questions/concerns regarding the intermediate test problems, as emailed to info@teacharchery.org on Dec 3 being addressed?

    Thank you

  17. #17
    Actually,

    See if I am right about this....NADA is the facilator for the NAA / NFAA , L1 and L2 courses... and the NAA / NFAA are actually tournament organizations... first... and foremost.....right? The courses that they originally created have now been updated to reflect information that they wish to teach archers as it pertains to their needs. As it should be.

    Is it their responsibility to come up with all of the educational needs and processes for all interests of archery...shouldn't they rightfully be focused first on education as it pertains to their specific needs.

    This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be part and partner to the educational process in other areas.... far from it. We will all be better for having them stay actively involved in this process. It just means that they shouldn't be held accountable and responsible for everything that comes across the desk... for all of the varied interests out there in the world of archery.

    If we feel that we as coaches require more... then maybe we should take a role in creating, developing and managing other courses, after all... who understands the diverse needs of education in archery more than those of us that teach it.

    We as certified coaches do so much, NASP, JOAD, 4-H, Scouts, Camps, private lessons...introductory group programs, etc....many more things than just NAA / NFAA formats. And yet, the only courses and material available to us is those two - the L1 and L2, they are geared to address the interests of NAA /NFAA.

    And who's coaching jobs are these anyway? I make my living teaching archery in many different formats... all as an independant contractor...it would perfect sense to me that we should take a more pro-active role in being in on the decision making concerning the courses we are asked to teach.

    NADA has recently made itself more visible on this forum to invite us share our ideas and opinions... cool!

    Should be interesting to see how it plays out, maybe if we want to see changes, we might like to get involved and share some of those constructive ideas.

    Doug says that NADA is listening.....................

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonehuntin View Post
    Doug says that NADA is listening.....................
    Unfortuneately, Doug says
    And I have mentioned before, I generally don't frequent these boards so don't assume that I'll quickly hear about what you post, if you decide not to contact us directly. And, since I'm old-fashioned and not very savvy, I generally don't respond to screenames or private messages, since I have a hard time figuring out the internet buttons.
    and
    Since these postings are informal personal discussions that have no follow-up, I look forward to your phoning/emailing the NADA office with your official concerns and reference points.
    Which is to say Doug is generally not listening and doesn't do forums unless making an announcement or is told to respond to something on the forum. Clearly he doesn't like PM's or responding to forum queries since he says forums are "a great place to meet and exchange ideas and gossip, but it really isn't helpful to us as a formal way to communicate." Thus Doug doesn't consider the concerns you mention here to be worth looking into unless you call him since "since we never really know who is offering the advice unless you phone us, and I don't read these posts very often." Personally, I think valid comments are valid comments no matter who says them but Doug wants to know who you are. Since he is the head of an organization that is smack in the center of the politics laden world of USAA/NFAA that makes me kind of nervous since I'm not a big wig.

    Also, Doug blew off the fact that the mailto on worldarchery center failed for both SteveN and myself, saying, "From the number of emails and calls I get every day, I can only assume that I am easy to reach..." Well, yes you could assume that, or you could look into the possibility that an issue that two separate and unrelated people brought up just might actually be a real problem. That might be better than assuming...

    Doug writes very well and I'm told he's a great guy (which I have no reason to doubt), but he is also very good at blowing people off without seeming to do so. I might not have noticed except that I'm a student of rhetoric and I realized that Doug is much better at it than I am, perhaps it is professional jealousy on my part . I'm sure that one doesn't head an organization like NADA for many years without learning how to gloss over issues that are impolitic.
    Last edited by Warbow; December 22nd, 2007 at 12:15 AM.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

  19. #19
    I remember the certification program long before Doug and NADA came on the scene. It was run by one guy that was trying to do everything all by himself, while he held down a full time life.... it was hard to get paperwork in a timely manner, we didn't always get paid for our work, we would schedule classes only to get there (finding some of those places was a story in and of itself) only to find out it had been canceled... all of this, and more.... for very little compensation.......and so on. It was tough

    NADA changed all of that, they had done many great things to improve on the certification process. I personally am grateful for them and what they have accomplished.

    Are they perfect? No way. But I see them as an ongoing work in progress, I know that they have a long way to go.. growing pains are tough for everyone........and I wouldn't like it if I couldn't get a response from someone that I felt I should be able to, either... but, maybe they aren't feeling so bullet proof right now... (no excuse for a legitamate business, you say? I agree) some of the thoughts shared on here can come across a little harsh...mine included. The written word can sometimes convey the true feelings of the author in the context that they are written, sometimes not.

    I never have had any trouble contacting NADA in the past, and although my life has taken a bit different path this past year and I have not tried lately, I am sure that they wouldn't want to ignore people on purpose, that would be very bad for the business that they have worked so hard to rescue and improve upon.

    I am sorry that you are having trouble reaching them, I know they are good people, and very dedicated to the coaching community. I am going to try after the holiday weekend, see how things shake out for me. It is past time for me to renew my dues anyway...oops....late again.... will let you know.

  20. #20
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    31,025
    Thanks, gonehuntin, for the perspective on NADA. While there may be some issues that I think NADA would do well to deal with that doesn't mean that I dislike the organization. Instead, I think it is a vital organization that could do better and there are some simple fixes they could make to things like their website which I would have wished Doug Engh would have acknowledged rather than ignored in this thread.

    These comment threads can suffer from the same bias as news organizations do, which is that problems are news more than "every thing is fine." Thus I'm more likely to post a thread about NADA when there is a possible problem than posting an "10-o-clock and all is well at NADA" post. So, in spite of my critical bent I'm glad that you and tedzpony have been able to post some balancing information to give us a more complete picture of NADA, especially with personal perspectives that can't be gleaned anywhere else.
    <evidence><
    ..../............\.......
    Hoyt GM OR - Adcock ACS LB - Bickerstaffe ELB - USA Archery Level 2

    "Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers.” HL Mencken

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