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Thread: It upsets me when

  1. #1
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    It upsets me when

    Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong. I cant stand it when Rifle hunters tell me that a bow is less affectice. I hate it when Bowhunters say rifle hunters are cheating. Cant stand it when Trad guys and Modern buwunters go at it either. But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people. Us hunters have enough problems with the Peta terds out there that the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied

    Hell yea I hunt those poor little deer I eat them too.
    highcountryarchery.net/ Yea they are back and making excellent bows!!!!!!!!
    I created the staggar back tuning method


  2. #2
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    Preach it brotha. We are all hunters, we're all out in the woods for similar reasons, we all fight for the right to do what we do. Let's not help them use the age old proven effective method of divide and conquer against us.

  3. #3
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    Could your being upset be in response to this?

    On page 3, I recount (with links for verification) how such short sighted elitists, busybodies and the like, along with PETA and HSUS, almost ended bear hunting in the State of Maine.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejohnchapman View Post
    Could your being upset be in response to this?

    On page 3, I recount (with links for verification) how such short sighted elitists, busybodies and the like, along with PETA and HSUS, almost ended bear hunting in the State of Maine.
    Just read it. You are the man and everyone should read what you posted. The antis are far from stupid and all it takes is one self absorbed prick who compromises with them to hurt hunting as a whole. There is no give take
    Hell yea I hunt those poor little deer I eat them too.
    highcountryarchery.net/ Yea they are back and making excellent bows!!!!!!!!
    I created the staggar back tuning method

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong. I cant stand it when Rifle hunters tell me that a bow is less affectice. I hate it when Bowhunters say rifle hunters are cheating. Cant stand it when Trad guys and Modern buwunters go at it either. But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people. Us hunters have enough problems with the Peta terds out there that the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied
    I agree hunters need to stick together,and promote safe hunting ethics to the next generation....
    Iam just glad bow is before gun,ha those darn gun hunters,,really %#@*&%$#@ me off............J/k....................

  6. #6
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    Txhunter:

    Thanks for the kind words, but I was a very small part of what was done. Surprisingly, our Dem governor played a BIG role in the defeat, as did the head of SAM, and the prior director of IFW. Tom Watson is a dem legislator and Maine Guide - also did lots.

    The veg-heads were led by Wayne Pacelle of HSUS and bob Fisk, Jr. of the Maine Friends of Animals. It didn't take long for us (well i think it was me) to discover that the "front group" was operating out of the Friends of Animals offices, using their fax machine, and had their treasurer as the treasurer for political contributions to this "Hunters" group.

    After we exposed them, they formed another group, but the damage was done for them.

    The biggest concern was revealed after they had gotten enough signatures to put the measure on the ballot. The ACTUAL WORDING of the law would probably have ended hunting over NATURALLY OCCURRING food sources as well. In short, it would have ended the taking of bears except over rock or tar.

    Actually, we have had some progress. We enacted a crossbow law that permits 'em, but treats 'em like firearms. Seems fair.

    PS: We have so many bears that the Police had to shoot one in the residential part of Maine's largest urban area. The antis were in the middle of the "no baiting" campaign, and were so torqued up over this bad-for them event that they started accusing trappers of releasing the bear in the city -- total lie and fabrication and no evidence and blah-blah - the usual pack of Marxist lies for that crowd.

    As you can tell, I have no strong feelings about this subject.

  7. #7
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    The think the point to this is that HUNT if it is legal then do so the way YOU want to. I am from Washington State we are do not have high fences, feeders and such but in states where that is the method most use then why not? If we do not ALL band together we ALL will loose, just like was stated divide and conquer. We lost our trapping rights in this state do to much the same no-one could band together against these anti groups and the groups won the voters. One thing we must all remember when you loose the right to trap or hunt you will NEVER get it back it is history. I personally would like a better legacy to leave the young ones. Not being part of loosing the privaledge to hunt

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong. I cant stand it when Rifle hunters tell me that a bow is less affectice. I hate it when Bowhunters say rifle hunters are cheating. Cant stand it when Trad guys and Modern buwunters go at it either. But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people. Us hunters have enough problems with the Peta terds out there that the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But,,a bow is less affectice.


    while I am here,,what is affectice?


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    LOL- just kidding

    I am gonna go buy some ammo now,any recommendations for the 12G?



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    (It upsets me when) Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people.
    I found your big problem....

    Your two statements are not the same. When someone tells you that you are not hunting Fair Chase, it doesn't automatically mean they are telling you the way you hunt is wrong.

    They are telling you it is not fair chase.

    YOU are the one who insinuates that if it is not fair chase, it is wrong.

    You should consider that.

    If you truly feel that it is wrong to hunt outside of fair chase, then perhaps you should be contemplating what fair chase actually entails.

    If you feel its OK to violate fair chase but still hunt legally.....then why do you care if they consider your hunting fair chase or not? And why do you insist on calling it fair chase if you do not care about fair chase?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong. I cant stand it when Rifle hunters tell me that a bow is less affectice. I hate it when Bowhunters say rifle hunters are cheating. Cant stand it when Trad guys and Modern buwunters go at it either. But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people. Us hunters have enough problems with the Peta terds out there that the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied
    very nice cookie!

  11. #11
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    I get upset when...

    The thing that gets me is the people that say that size is key to a HF hunt being okay...Because that means that if you take a 10 acre pen, which they feel to be NOT fair and start adding acres 1 at a time eventually it becomes fair. At which point does that happen? How do you say "well before you added that 1 extra acre, I thought it was a little unfair, but now, I'm IN!!" I could care less if people want to hunt HF, but please, please do not try and claim it to be fair chase.! Flingr
    My brother walked on water...
    The Rack Pack

  12. #12
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    IMO fair chase boils down to a very simple defenition, what ever means is legal in the area for witch you hunt. Whether it is by bow, gun x-bow, over bait,behind a fence, whatever fill in any blanks.
    If you do not subscribe to any of the methods that is your choice, and it is not my right to critisize you or anyone else for doing so.
    I happen to bow hunt with trad. gear but I do not care if you use a compound or a xbow. I also go into the woods with my rifle and my shot gun and my muzzle loader during those seasons because those are the weapons the stste says I have to use during that time frame. I like being out in the woods hunting and do not want to loose my time afield so I I buy my tags and out I go.
    I believe I follow the legal ways of my state so I am ethical, and I will report a slob hunter who is not, to protect my hunting rights and keep them out of the woods ruining it for all the rest of us.

  13. #13
    How many acres does it take for a deer to elude/evade a hunter with a weapon that has the ability to cover 1 acre of open terrain even less in a wooded area. How is setting up in a funnel over a game trail outside a fence different than one inside, if the animal has the ability to take a route that puts it outside shooting range?
    I have discovered there are two sides to every argument. First and foremost, is my side, then there is the side thatno reasonably intelligent,informed,sane, and self respecting person could possibly hold..Bob

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesource View Post
    I found your big problem....

    Your two statements are not the same. When someone tells you that you are not hunting Fair Chase, it doesn't automatically mean they are telling you the way you hunt is wrong.

    They are telling you it is not fair chase.

    YOU are the one who insinuates that if it is not fair chase, it is wrong.

    You should consider that.

    If you truly feel that it is wrong to hunt outside of fair chase, then perhaps you should be contemplating what fair chase actually entails.

    If you feel its OK to violate fair chase but still hunt legally.....then why do you care if they consider your hunting fair chase or not? And why do you insist on calling it fair chase if you do not care about fair chase?
    You got me misunderstood Source (The way I talk, I am used to it). I dont mind hunters expressing their views of what they consider fair chase, but all to often when you speak of what you consider FC they immedietly start putting it down and saying it is wrong. Source you talk noise but you never have flat out said that the way one hunts is wrong. But there are tons of poeple who do just that. I see my HF thread is still out there. Look how many people say it should be Banned, I hope no anties log onto that one as they could see a huge chink in our armor. Not everyones Ideals of fair chase are the same but way to many have crazy standards and will tell you that if you dont follow them that you are wrong and what you are doing is as well. I a just saying that if your views differ its ok but dont try and stop everyone else from doing what they do so that it suits your view.
    Hell yea I hunt those poor little deer I eat them too.
    highcountryarchery.net/ Yea they are back and making excellent bows!!!!!!!!
    I created the staggar back tuning method

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    You got me misunderstood Source (The way I talk, I am used to it). I dont mind hunters expressing their views of what they consider fair chase, but all to often when you speak of what you consider FC they immedietly start putting it down and saying it is wrong. Source you talk noise but you never have flat out said that the way one hunts is wrong. But there are tons of poeple who do just that. I see my HF thread is still out there. Look how many people say it should be Banned, I hope no anties log onto that one as they could see a huge chink in our armor. Not everyones Ideals of fair chase are the same but way to many have crazy standards and will tell you that if you dont follow them that you are wrong and what you are doing is as well. I a just saying that if your views differ its ok but dont try and stop everyone else from doing what they do so that it suits your view.
    What gets me is the ones that condemn other hunters for taking advantage of a legal means to enjoy a recreational pastime and degrade them and their hunting by calling them cheaters/ or the type of hunting they do as lesser or not hunting because they don't hunt that way or agree with that method.
    I have discovered there are two sides to every argument. First and foremost, is my side, then there is the side thatno reasonably intelligent,informed,sane, and self respecting person could possibly hold..Bob

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    ... the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied
    Good post. In addition to that any language used to ban the so called asault weapon will eventually be used to ban handguns, bolt action (sniper) rifle, shotguns, compound bow...etc. Education on the true issues, language and justifications of the bans is a must.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroflingr View Post
    The thing that gets me is the people that say that size is key to a HF hunt being okay...Because that means that if you take a 10 acre pen, which they feel to be NOT fair and start adding acres 1 at a time eventually it becomes fair. At which point does that happen? How do you say "well before you added that 1 extra acre, I thought it was a little unfair, but now, I'm IN!!" I could care less if people want to hunt HF, but please, please do not try and claim it to be fair chase.! Flingr
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Too funny.

    Someday I hope you get to hunt a decent HF operation,and I am 100% confident that you will not know or realize the difference. Nowadays I belive your info needs to be updated.


    I hunt Fair Chase lotsa times,and I always wonder about the "Fair" part. Nothing fair about it. It is an ambush. Fair or Fence, they can all run away.It may fool some Anti's,but not a vast number of hunters who do both.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    I a just saying that if your views differ its ok but dont try and stop everyone else from doing what they do so that it suits your view.
    You should realize by now that there are 2 overreaching philosophies within our hunting community.

    1. The Big Tent Theorists - everyone is welcome under the big tent of hunting as long as its legal. Even though some method or equipment might be viewed as distasteful, we all need to be united as hunters to defend hunting from antihunters.


    2. Ethics Police - (I personally don't like the term, and would prefer to call this group The High Roaders, or something more noble like that.) - The future of hunting is best protected by policing our own ranks, eliminating the questionable practices and equipment that makes hunting look bad and will erode public support. They feel this is important because they feel that non-hunters will ultimately determine the fate of our sport at the voting booth, not hunters vs anti-hunters arguing, so maintaining and building public support for hunting is essential.


    Trying to convince one group to adopt the philosophy of the other is like trying to get a leopard to change his spots. Ethics Police cannot principally accept the more vile and controversial of methods or equipment that the Big Tenters espouse. Big Tenters cannot stand the idea of trimming even the most vile and controversial of methods or equipment because of the slippery slope arguements, and the fact that feel they would giving away ground to the antihunters.

    Quite a connundrum.

    Any suggestions on how we might break the impass?

  19. #19
    Who/whom makes the methods of the big tenters sound distasteful? Right, the Ethics police. Through the narrow mindedness they continue to brow beat the ones that choose to follow the law rather than a private rule. So while the Ethics police champion the idea of saving the sport, in actuality they are the ones creating animosity not only amongst the ranks of hunter but non-hunters. High roaders think that by following an archaic set of guidelines they are some how better to serve the hunting community. Through the short sightedness they have a hard time understanding that a century old concept has been outlived and needs to be updated. In the days of the original concept the rules were written and adopted by Hunters with little to no input from the non-hunting community.. The rules in todays society are done in unison with both hunters, environmentalist and non-hunters. The idea that others methods are questionable, cheating unfair etc comes from those that feel for some reason they are superior because of the method they use.
    Trying to convince one group to adopt the philosophy of the other is like trying to get a leopard to change his spots. Ethics Police cannot principally accept the more vile and controversial of methods or equipment that the Big Tenters espouse. Big Tenters cannot stand the idea of trimming even the most vile and controversial of methods or equipment because of the slippery slope arguements, and the fact that feel they would giving away ground to the antihunters.
    Last edited by cynic; April 29th, 2007 at 07:36 AM.
    I have discovered there are two sides to every argument. First and foremost, is my side, then there is the side thatno reasonably intelligent,informed,sane, and self respecting person could possibly hold..Bob

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesource View Post
    You should realize by now that there are 2 overreaching philosophies within our hunting community.

    1. The Big Tent Theorists - everyone is welcome under the big tent of hunting as long as its legal. Even though some method or equipment might be viewed as distasteful, we all need to be united as hunters to defend hunting from antihunters.


    2. Ethics Police - (I personally don't like the term, and would prefer to call this group The High Roaders, or something more noble like that.) - The future of hunting is best protected by policing our own ranks, eliminating the questionable practices and equipment that makes hunting look bad and will erode public support. They feel this is important because they feel that non-hunters will ultimately determine the fate of our sport at the voting booth, not hunters vs anti-hunters arguing, so maintaining and building public support for hunting is essential.


    Trying to convince one group to adopt the philosophy of the other is like trying to get a leopard to change his spots. Ethics Police cannot principally accept the more vile and controversial of methods or equipment that the Big Tenters espouse. Big Tenters cannot stand the idea of trimming even the most vile and controversial of methods or equipment because of the slippery slope arguements, and the fact that feel they would giving away ground to the antihunters.

    Quite a connundrum.

    Any suggestions on how we might break the impass?
    BINGO.. I think you hit on the big picture Source.. sounds a bit like the Dem's and the Pub's to me, and we see where that is takin us...

  21. #21
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    I agree, it does sound the same.

    And similar to our domestic politics, there is little chance of finding middle ground....not many are interested in compromise.

    Interesting dilemma.

  22. #22
    Okay lets look for middle ground...
    In your opinion what would be a fair compromise for High fence after all they were not a consideration at the turn of the century when all this started? Size, Density maybe, Terrain considerations?.
    What do you think would be Fair in regards to lighted sights and electronics on a bow. Me I think that so long as it does not aid in the killing, but rather the ability to accurately see the pin during legal shooting hours it should be accepted.. I think that the blanket 7. Electronic devices should be amended..as it excludes various Camcorder devices that would enable the hunter to capture the entire hunt and also light nocks.
    I have discovered there are two sides to every argument. First and foremost, is my side, then there is the side thatno reasonably intelligent,informed,sane, and self respecting person could possibly hold..Bob

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by txcookie View Post
    Other hunters sit there and tell you the way you hunt is wrong. I cant stand it when Rifle hunters tell me that a bow is less affectice. I hate it when Bowhunters say rifle hunters are cheating. Cant stand it when Trad guys and Modern buwunters go at it either. But the worst is when People start pushing their veiws of fair chase on other people. Us hunters have enough problems with the Peta terds out there that the last thing we need to do is start banning BAIT, HF, GUIDED HUNTS, THE USE OF DOGS ,XBOWS,LIGHTED SIGHTS etc I say stay untied
    this is what i'm talking about. lets focus on OUR sport as a whole and remember who the enemy is. it's not trappers, xbow users, rifle hunters, its the anti hunting groups who we are fighting.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesource View Post
    I agree, it does sound the same.

    And similar to our domestic politics, there is little chance of finding middle ground....not many are interested in compromise.

    Interesting dilemma.
    Perhaps if some people would worry about their own business and stop trying to force their elitism on others everyone could be one big happy family. Just a thought.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Okay lets look for middle ground...
    In your opinion what would be a fair compromise for High fence after all they were not a consideration at the turn of the century when all this started? Size, Density maybe, Terrain considerations?.
    What do you think would be Fair in regards to lighted sights and electronics on a bow. Me I think that so long as it does not aid in the killing, but rather the ability to accurately see the pin during legal shooting hours it should be accepted.. I think that the blanket 7. Electronic devices should be amended..as it excludes various Camcorder devices that would enable the hunter to capture the entire hunt and also light nocks.
    HF enclosures larger than a bucks widest estimated home range (your own reference said that means >5000 acres), herd density no greater than similar and surrounding unfenced property, and only wild deer (which means only in TX, since no one else allows that.) Limited supplemental feeding.

    Do not use the word "hunting" to describe killing deer in enclosures when the above terms are not met, rather call it "harvesting", "slaughtering", or even shooting for all I care, but not hunting.

    Lit sight pins are still out, for reasons I have mentioned before. Using artificial light to extend the shooting light is not fair chase. They should be banned. In exchange, I would allow lumenocks. That seems fair.

    As Bobmuley often states, it is far easier just to keep electronics off the bow and arrow than to deal with these things an item at a time. Its probably why they did it.

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