January 8th, 2004, 05:53 PM
Well fokes, the nfaa has done it again. The leadership of the nfaa is not interested in promoting archery for all archers, they are only interested in $$$$$ and their narrow minded self interest.
The integrity of State organizations was challenged by the nfaa leadership and the State organizations which accepted the challenge and retained their integrity had their compliance certificate rejected, so they will not be seated at the February directors meeting.
KUDOS to the three states that I know of so far who would not compromise their integrity.
Just how many more are their ?
The potential membership loss, clubs, States and members may be very costly.
How many State organizations lost their backbone and compromised their integrity in order to stay chartered ?
I can only say that Mike l. tried.
Last edited by broken arrow123; January 8th, 2004 at 05:55 PM.
January 8th, 2004, 05:59 PM
Plenty of room on the 3D range guys. Come one, come all!
Let's have some fun at the unkown thing!
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January 8th, 2004, 06:01 PM
In what way was the state(s) integrety challenged?
January 8th, 2004, 06:41 PM
When a State organization is asked to send personnel information to anyone without their members 100% approval and they do, they have compromised their integerty as an honorable organization. When a comittment to members is made and then broken, that organizations leadership is unworthy.
January 8th, 2004, 06:42 PM
The NFAA did this they did that I don't like this or that. Why all the bashing of the NFAA? I've been a member for over 25 yrs. and can say that the NFAA has provided me with lots of enjoyable memories along with many new friends. It's finny how now a days everone want everything for free. And the silver spoon to go along with it. The NFAA has it's rules to abid by. They always have. If you want something changed have it on the agenda at the national meeting. But please stop slamming and bashing the NFAA there are many of us who enjoy the organization and some that might want to join but have there duets after reading all this bashing.
Lets all just shoot and have a good time.
January 8th, 2004, 06:56 PM
I am a life member of the nfaa and have had many enjoyable times in that organization, BUT when the current leadership made the new rule concerning membership lists, (they did it in the 60's also and quickly shot it down), they took away our State organization as well as other state organizations, taking away my right and other nfaa members rights to complete in nfaa shoots. They also removed clubs from their roles.
January 8th, 2004, 07:01 PM
If your a Life Member you can still shoot the sectionals and nationals can't you.
January 8th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Personal information.....that's a funny one ba123. The NFAA was seeking a list of state members and their addresses who were not also NFAA members. Last time I looked addresses were not considered private personal information.
And to boot, the NFAA had already stated that the lists would not be sold to outside sources anyhow. The NFAA wanted the state membership lists so they could send membership and NFAA promotional materials to the states' non-NFAA members. Exactly one of the things the non-compliant NFAA chartered states were complaining about (lack of information) in the first place. Being that your state was chartered with the NFAA, I believe the NFAA has every right to request the non-NFAA membership list. The "NFAA" (i.e. all chartered states) elected in total to require this listing be provided. Your state obviously was in the minority on this decision, but a decision nonetheless. I don't always like all enacted laws or elected officials either, but thats the way the system works.
If your state has other reasons, valid or not, for not retaining its charter with the NFAA, so be it. That's up to your State Association to decide. But to try to make something like the membership address list the focal point, com'mon !
FYI, my state didn't have to "compromise their integrity". The WFAA is 100% NFAA members as well and the NFAA gets our membership addresses as soon as they join the WFAA/NFAA !
January 8th, 2004, 07:24 PM
I would think the state organizations would be happy to supply any information to help grow the sport.As was said before,these lists wouldn't be given to anyone else.
An address is hardly personal info.
If your not happy with the nfaa,why not try to get involved and change peoples minds constructivly and through votes instead of badmouthing the national org. that has done so much for so many.
You wouldn't even have the state structure you have now were it not for the nfaa.
January 8th, 2004, 07:53 PM
I get sick of the constant hacking at and critisizing of the NFAA. No doubt that there are things that could be improved but the fact remains that this organization is responsible for 90% of the tournaments that me and my friends love to compete in. If it weren't for the NFAA shoots in our region we would all be back shooting rubber goats. The only other option is NAA and they don't have enough shoots each year in our area to make it worth owning a bow. Some people just don't like following rules even if they are decided on by their representatives and in the interest of target archery in general. To those trouble makers I say good riddance.
January 8th, 2004, 07:54 PM
I've stayed out of this.......
But I understand where brokenarrow123 stands. I, also, do not think the Nfaa has the right to ask for addresses of people that ,if they wanted them to have it ,would have joined Nfaa in the first place.
I am an Nfaa member and will stay, but this "LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT" attitude is pushing people away.
I think the smarter thing would have been to ASK the states for the lists for the express purpose of promoting the Nfaa. I doubt very much if that would have been a problem. I wonder if the list was a requirement for Charter, 10 yrs ago?
I also am pulled between the responsibilities of the State ASSN's to the "state" and then the "national". I seems to me if you get more people in the states then more will see the benefits of the national.
I also see where States have taken advantage of the Nfaa, and understand why the Nfaa had to force complaince, although I think it could have been handled better.
I think some of the reponsibilities should be taken to the local level, also. I know in our club a lot of the guys that hunt only, ask "What is in it for me?". I hate that question, to answer is talking to deaf ears. But,the Nfaa has to realise that in any organization , the work is done by 5% of the members. I wish we could force "compliance" within our own club, but we fight to get and keep members as it is.
The only time you can "force" people is when there is no alternative to your services.
Oh, and JBIRD, are you suggesting censorship? Coming from a small state my Directors vote means nothing when the big states swing their power around. Lets put it ,one state one vote and see who screams the most, we are not taking what the majority of the PEOPLE want now, only what the big states think will keep them in power.
Last edited by ROB B; January 8th, 2004 at 08:01 PM.
January 8th, 2004, 07:55 PM
"If your not happy with the nfaa,why not try to get involved and change peoples minds constructivly and through votes instead of badmouthing the national org. that has done so much for so many."
I am new to this arena, but I noticed on the agenda for the NFAA annual meeting that these newest states which just got kicked out had agenda items listed to change some of these areas which they are in disagreement with. That is a fine example of working with the system - complain and get kicked out!!
Any other suggestions for them???
January 8th, 2004, 08:18 PM
I'm now being told that Michigan is also in the arena now.
Maybe this is the beginning of the start of a trend,I don't know.
Have left a message with our president to see where he stands.
I for one don't see a problem with sharing the mailing list,but in this country majority rules and whatever our elected officials stand by is the way it is.
Those states were kicked out for non-compliance,not compaining.
Minnesota was fully prepared for that consequence,and still have a seperate state org.that will allow its members to still shoot nfaa tourneys.
Last edited by Michigander; January 8th, 2004 at 08:26 PM.
January 8th, 2004, 08:18 PM
The state of Vermont is not exactly a power house in the NFAA either. We probably are in a race for fewest registered members.
But the fact remains that this is the venue that a lot of us prefer for our competitive archery outlet. We enjoy going to Vegas, AC,
the outdoor nationals, and the indoor and outdoor shoots in our area sanctioned by the NFAA. The NFAA is the only organization that makes it possible for us to shoot our great love, field archery.
Most of us participate in the indoor and outdoor sectionals and state shoots in addition to the few National shoots we are able to make. I don't see the big threat in giving the mailing addresses of affiliated club members to the NFAA to allow them to promote the NFAA. I want more NFAA shoots, not less and all this constant complaining is counter productive.
January 8th, 2004, 08:42 PM
I agree with you 100% on the Nfaa and its venue. And while I hate the trend towards the 360 indoors(x's 1 point)(I believe 300 1 x beats 299 59 x) I also wish for more field shoots here.
But it still remains that the way to make people happy is not to poke them in the eye with a sharp stick . I hear how "the majority rules",... well ^%$ sh*&. The big states ram their thoughts down your throat and your ideas, which maybe good , get ignored.
Rob B (Nfaa member to stay, just have a disagreement)
January 8th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Maybe I don't understand, but I thought each state had one director at the national meeting, that means one vote per state regardless of size.
January 8th, 2004, 10:58 PM
That is correct. Each state has one vote by its director. NH has the same vote power as NY. The bickering continues by a bunch of people who are ashamed of their home address I guess. All the nitpickers just seek some silly little point to attack something. They want to see their names in print, I guess. The non-compliant states are simply looking out for their own interests rather than the good of the organization. MN in particular was a self-serving bunch of jerks with no desire to promote archery as a national activity.
The NFAA is and always has been an ardent supporter of archery, but like any elected body, can't please the entire audience. That is precisely why each state has representation to ensure the best interests of the whole are fairly adjudicated in the best interests of archery.
January 8th, 2004, 11:23 PM
Each Director gets a vote for 500 members in their state
last year only 5 Directors had more than 1 vote
CA had 5 because 5 is the maximun allowed
FL had 2
NY had 2
IL had 2
WI had 2
this year will be different with so many states coming in compliance that did not know that they were out of compliance, their NFAA membership went thru the roof in a few states.
Last edited by ALASKA MIKE; January 8th, 2004 at 11:25 PM.
January 9th, 2004, 02:25 AM
RSW, get your facts straight.
Kudos to ROB B
First of all, the membership information list was inserted last year by the current nfaa leadership, until last year, everyone was happy, except the nfaa president and at least some of the councilmem. The proposal was submitted by the nfaa inner circle.
This is the second time that the state membership information list was inserted in the nfaa constition. The first time was, (as stated to me), in the 60's and did not last very long.
A states "INTEGERTY" is the confidence that its membership has with its leadership, in protecting its members information. Giving the information to any one or any organization is not a choice, once given, your credibility is worthless.
With one "NO",the information cannot be given, and there were more than one NO!
Losing the charter is no big deal, ITS what the nfaa members and clubs in the State lose.
State nfaa clubs also lose there club charters and cannot hold nfaa shoots unless they affiliate with an nfaa adjacent state.
Nfaa members of states now without an nfaa charter cannot shoot any nfaa tourements unless they join an nfaa adjacent state.
The nfaa doesn't give a da** about those members or clubs !
Should you live close to to an adjacent nfaa state, you may be willing to fork over addittional $$$$$ in order to continue to shoot nfaa competition, BUT clubs may be unwilling.
I received a copy of the e-mail sent to our State Director by Mike LePera, Mid-Atlantic Councilman
Last edited by broken arrow123; January 9th, 2004 at 02:28 AM.
January 9th, 2004, 03:37 AM
Another thing is that the States who sent in their compliance forms, (but were not in complete compliance), were looking for the chance to bring the issue back to the table and try to get the issue modified or resolved, are shut out when the nfaa office rejects their compliance affidavid. The issues that those states submitted as agenda items, (as I understand), will not be discussed by the committee's and will not be voted on unless a chartered State also submits them.
It simply means that the States which had permited members who were not also nfaa members and chose not to send their members information are OUT.
That also reduces the potential nfaa membership in those states.
The nfaa direct billing is the reason for the nfaa wanting the membership lists, that way they can bill all the State members, (nfaa or not), for both the nfaa and State dues. The all nfaa, ( bully boys), states can out vote the rest of the States with their extra votes, even though States with both nfaa and non nfaa members out number them.
What happened to the RIGHT To CHOOSE ?
Because the nfaa considers me now inelgible for nfaa competition, do I get my life membership fee back ?
Last edited by broken arrow123; January 9th, 2004 at 03:47 AM.
January 9th, 2004, 10:37 PM
" the three states that I know of so far who would not compromise their integrity".
So other than MN., who are the other states that you know of?
January 9th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Va.& Pa.are the other states.
Spoke to our treasurer about renewing my state membership as I thought it expired Dec.31st............I was told that they(the NFAA) will bill me in april for both state and national dues.
Sounds like my state did what was requested...........it actually just makes things easier.
I do understand why some are upset over this,I just don't agree.The person receiving the literature only has to throw it away if they don't want to become a member.
I support the effort to try to increase membership,but I can see that some don't appreciate the strongarm tactics.
January 9th, 2004, 11:15 PM
Well folks I guess I better jump in here. first of all as usual, 123 is blowing smoke up your A. the leadership didnot put these requirements in. It was the NFAA which is the directors. they deemed it ok for the states to go on direct billing, Membership lists & etc. As for this being in effect 10 yrs ago, who cares. every yr, if rules get changed, the affiliate states must bend to the will of the majority. As for the "BIG STATES " raming their will down the throat, there are only 5 that have more than one vote. If they all got together, they could not out vote all the little guys .
NJhas well over 400members, Me. has less than 20 . we get the same vote, one.
Things are being worked on to try to accomadate the NFAA members of those states. Does any fool out there think that the leadership of the NFAA wishes hardship on any state org.
January 10th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Quit the the double talk and BS, you know exactly what I meant ! I will spell it out for you.
That agenda item came from the nfaa Councilmen and NOT from any State Director !
I know you are a diehard nfaa member as well as the Mid-Atlantic Councilman and you are also one of the 11 who make decisions on who is in or out and also submit agenda items.
In fact, the council of the nfaa runs the nfaa on a daily basis and is empowered to make major decisions. It is the Councilmen who decide which directors are on what committees and they can pick and chose, baised on the agenda items slected each committee to act on in order to steer certain agenda items to the trash can.
As it was stated to me, the agenda items passed by each committee are presented to the directors for action, (should no one make any motion for discussion or vote), the agenda item is considered passed. and the items discarded by the committees can only be discussed and voted on by the directors should a director make a motion and the motion is carried.
ARTICLE Vll of the nfaa constition, starts on page 18.
Direct billing simply means that the nfaa will bill all the State members, (nfaa or not), for both the nfaa and the state membership dues and THAT can cost States members !
January 10th, 2004, 03:16 AM
If a agenda item get recomended to be adopted by a committee if no-one has a objection to that agenda item then you are right it is adopted. There are a few of these but most have someone speaking for and against the item before voting takes place.
If a committee recomends no-action and no-one says anything then it dies but usually the Director that submitted it recommends adoption and all he needs is one person second his or her motion and it's on the floor for discusion. I don't think I've ever seen one not get a second so it couldn't be discussed.
Now as far as who gets in what committee don't know how that's decided but it wouldn't make any difference who you put were it only takes (2) people to get it to the floor for discussion and all agenda items are recommended to the adopt or not to adopt so everyone is asked for some action it dosen't die in committee unless the director that submitted it has second thought now and dosen't recomend to adopt.
Last edited by Target 1; January 10th, 2004 at 03:19 AM.
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