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Thread: Martin Cat Cam-Optimum Settings-Advice-Questions

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  1. #1
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    Martin Cat Cam-Optimum Settings-Advice-Questions

    I've been shooting the CAT cam for some time now. I've learned a ton of things. One thing I have found is how to find the sweet spot. We all like a different feel and I would like for this thread to be used to help each of us find what we like. I have done lots of testing and I will continue to do a lot more. The one thing I know is that when you find the sweet spot as I have you will enjoy this cam as much or more than any cam you have shot.

    I wish I had some pictures and I will try to take some tonight.

    I want to help those that want help and to continue to learn myself.

    Let's define some myths and facts about the cam in this thread.



    Let's define some do's and don'ts.

    I will try to start. I'm always short on time and I will help each day that I can.

    Myth-At full draw the modules must touch the cables at the same time, Most certainly Myth.
    Fact-Your bow can perform at its optimum setting while the modules do not touch the cables at full draw at all, and where the gap between the module and the cable are not exactly the same. When you are in this setting, the draw stop becomes the key factor.

    Do's- Use the draw stop to your advantage. Long draw guys (30,31") we would need to discuss. I'm a 28" draw.

    Don'ts-Do not get worked up about the "Timing" of the wheels" get it close and work on the draw stop. Then fine tune. I can help with that.

    Do's-Get the cam wrapped up in the cable as much as possible without the cables touching the cable(Loop) post in the relaxed (static-not full draw) state. This gap needs to be minimized. Again the gap from the top and bottom do not have to be the same.

    Don'ts-Do not try to shoot the bow with 80% or more let off. When you let the bow down from full draw and you feel like you have to push it to get it to come down you have excessive let off. I wouldn't want that for my optimum setting.

    Lets work together in this thread to help one another get the cam in the optimum setting and listen to each others remarks to continue learning.

    I will not be on the thread often but I will do what I can to help. Work gets in the way.


  2. #2
    See Post #12 for a picture of the CAT cam timing position,
    by Grey Eagle.

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...ferrerid=22477
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  3. #3
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    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=611716

    Take a look at this and the link in this therad. . .
    "He who gives attention to the word [the Bible] will find good, and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord [Jesus]." - Proverbs 16:20

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuts&bolts View Post
    See Post #12 for a picture of the CAT cam timing position,
    by Grey Eagle.

    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...ferrerid=22477
    What he said. I have found this to be pretty accurate.

    On the timing thing, the mod synch is pretty darn important. Otherwise the cams will "wrestle" each other.

  5. #5
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    Updates

    As for the cam timing. My cams do not match. I meant for it to be this way. If the cams match and I get just a little weak in the shot and creep just a touch the arrow will hit low at 40 yards about 3 inches. With the cams set just out of perfect timing I can pull into the wall about 1/16" and creep 1/4" and hit in the same spot at 40 yds. Therefore with the cams just out of perfect sync I have perfect nock travel. For a shooter this is what I prefer. I don't make perfect shots all day lone and I do want my bow to help if it can. That is why mine is set the way it is. I hope to have pictures tomorrow.

  6. #6
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    Pictures Added

    I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.

    You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).

    I will try to get some pictures at full draw when I have another person around to help or when I get back to my shooting machine.

    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gjstudt View Post
    I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.

    You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).

    I will try to get some pictures at full draw when I have another person around to help or when I get back to my shooting machine.

    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Well......

    In your pictures your bottom cam is out of rotation You have it over rotated and this is why your cables do not match and your creep shot hits off... Mine used to be this way until I fixed it

    The cams WILL rotate perfectly when you have the cams correctly. I have my Firecat setup right now where the mods touch exactly the same, the cables gap is VERY close to the same and the cam rotation is perfect. I also picked up 6fps by setting this up.

    You also have you stop set for what looks to be like 40% letoff.. How does it feel at fulll draw? I would have NO valley with it set that way.....
    LeEarl

  8. #8
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    what's the location of your speed nocks? I know it may depend on the dl and dw of your bow, but could you give me some starting point? Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gjstudt View Post
    I have attached pictures of both the top and bottom cams on my bow. The gap between the cable on the end cable loop post you will notice is not the same. This setting in my promotes level nock travel all the time. That is what I like and what shoots the best.

    You may also notice the brass nock sets on the string and their location. For some reason I have found that this Cam likes more weight that the Nitrous or Furious Cam to get the optimum setting. I also found to have more on the bottom than the top. Location of these may very from draw length to draw length as may the amount (weight).

    I will try to get some pictures at full draw when I have another person around to help or when I get back to my shooting machine.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

  9. #9
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    Curious, how are you measuring nock travel? Through bare shaft testing?
    "He who gives attention to the word [the Bible] will find good, and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord [Jesus]." - Proverbs 16:20

  10. #10
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    Answer

    Cowboy,

    I use a Hooter Shooter at 40 yards along with creep testing to determine perfect cam sync. AKA Nock Travel.

    Works every time.

    When I started I had a creep arrow hitting low about 5 inches from an arrow at my set draw length at 40 yds.

    When I finished with the adjustments I can creep approx 1/4" and pull extra approx. 1/16" into the limb and all 3 draw settings at 40 yds now hit in the exact same spot within a quarter size group. Better if I could aim the machine better.

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjstudt View Post
    Cowboy,

    I use a Hooter Shooter at 40 yards along with creep testing to determine perfect cam sync. AKA Nock Travel.

    Works every time.

    When I started I had a creep arrow hitting low about 5 inches from an arrow at my set draw length at 40 yds.

    When I finished with the adjustments I can creep approx 1/4" and pull extra approx. 1/16" into the limb and all 3 draw settings at 40 yds now hit in the exact same spot within a quarter size group. Better if I could aim the machine better.

    Thanks
    So what you're saying is............. you adjust your cam synch to fit your particular shooting style..............

    If you creep 1/4", how can you pull into the limb 1/16"??????

  12. #12
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    Un Confuse

    Spectre,

    Not exactly.

    I never choose to creep or pull excessively. I choose to shoot my bow at my said draw length each and every time. However, I am human. I sometimes get tired. I sometimes get excited when aiming. Therefore I set my bow up to hit in the middle which ever way that particular shot occurs.

    Now if said properly what I mean is if you happen to creep just a little at my setting I will have the same impact. If I happen to pull a little hard a my setting I will have the same impact. When I shoot a great shoot at my draw length I will have the same impact. All good things.

    As for my setting!! Wheel sync is wheel sync just the same. Not just for me.

    Thanks

  13. #13
    I have read through this post and it has been a tremendous help. As I am approaching the optimum setup, everything is falling in line. I had some cam lean on my 09 firecat that is slowly disappearing as I get the cams wrapped up. Thanks

  14. #14
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    Well after Martin was gracious enough to upgrade my 09' Firecat to 2010 limbs, limb cups and cams I'm trying to get back in tune myself using the info in this thread.

    Sooooooo, how do I look?

    ATA.............@ 32 7/16"
    Brace height @ 6 15/16"
    Draw weight @ 60#
    Draw Length @ 27.625

    Modules set on 28" draw setting and draw stop set to approx. 27.625". So less than 80% let off (I'm guessing approx. about 73-75% let off?)

    Arrow weight = 312 grains

    Loaded string (meta peep, string leeches, d-loop) shooting 60#, 27.625" DL and 312 gr. arrow at 299 fps.

    I have not experimented with speed nocks yet. I just have 2 top and bottom at the moment.

    Any suggestions?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2012 Pearson Stealth II, Hogg-It sight, Limbdriver rest, Bernies 10" XROD & QD, Easton Flatline 500's, Vanetec Swift 2.25, Stan Black Jack release

  15. #15

    New 09 Firecat owner

    Guys, as a new Firecat owner, just setting my bow up I have to thank you for a great string! At the same time I have to say that I am a bit daunted by the posts and the thought of going backwards once I start tinkering... Has anybody ever done or seen a utube vid showing the processes discussed in this thread?

    If so where?

    If not, how to entice someone?

    Thanks,
    Bruce

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb11 View Post
    Guys, as a new Firecat owner, just setting my bow up I have to thank you for a great string! At the same time I have to say that I am a bit daunted by the posts and the thought of going backwards once I start tinkering... Has anybody ever done or seen a utube vid showing the processes discussed in this thread?

    If so where?

    If not, how to entice someone?

    Thanks,
    Bruce
    I dont think there is a video of the process. It is pretty easy tho - Look at the pics in the post above yours by 'Fowl Natured'.

    The following is a post by Nuts&Bolts that explains this much better than I do.


    Remove the screw out of the DL module
    and rotate the DL module,
    and re-install the screw for the DL module
    into the hole that is 1/2-inch LONGER than your correct DL.

    If you shoot 28-inches,
    then install the screw into the 28.5-inch hole
    on the DL module.



    Step 2.

    Start twisting up the bowstring,
    i.e. ADD twists to the bowstring,
    to shorten the bowstring,
    which will adjust the starting rotation position
    of the bottom cam.

    Keep TWISTING and TWISTING until the bottom cam looks like this picture.










    The bottom cam has a hole near the logo.

    As you keep ADDING twists to the bowstring,
    the bottom cam will rotate
    and the edge of the hole will get CLOSER and CLOSER
    to the face of the bottom limb.

    When the edge of the hole just kisses the face of the bottom limb,
    then you have added enough TWISTS to the bowstring.


    Now,
    obviously,
    the bowstring is much shorter than NORMAL.

    So,
    you may find that the bow DL setting is now too short for your liking
    or
    you may find that the bow DL setting is a skosh too long for your liking.



    Easy fix.

    Adjust the bow DL just right,
    by moving the draw stop in the slot.

    Make teeny tiny adjustments,
    to the draw stop position,
    until you get the draw length setting you like.

    Hump will be ZERO.


    So,
    what if the DL is now perfect,
    and the HUMP is ZERO....

    but,
    the holding weight is too high?

    Well,
    move the draw stop away from the riser,
    and the holding weight will drop down.

    But,
    when you move the draw stop away from the riser,
    the holding weight goes DOWN,
    but the DL also goes UP.

    Well,
    just add more twists to the bowstring,
    and the DL will shorten a skosh.


    As long as the edge of the hole in the bottom cam
    is pretty close to touching the face of the bottom limb,
    the HUMP will be ZERO.

    All I would like to add to this is that once you twist up the string and get the bottom cam hole lined up with the limb - if the hole in the top cam is farther from the limb - then untwist the cable that is connected to the outer peg on the top cam another twist or so untill they match. If it is closer to the limb or starting to go behind it - add another full twist.
    Once both are the same - your good


    _________________
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    Martin Archery/Rytera
    Strother Archery
    Advantage Custom Strings
    Black Eagle Arrows
    Magnus
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  17. #17
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    Wow very interesting information. I have been strugling for some time now on how to tune my firehawk. I like the detailed and easy to follow info here and I will give it a try.

  18. #18
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    gjstudt, Thanks for all the help. Even tho this is an old post it works!! I have the new Martin Silencer and it has the new Nitro 2 cams on it. This information is spot on (for any dual cam bow I think). I was shooting 385 gr arrows at 280fps with 60# and 29"DL. I twisted the cables and untwisted the string until I got to the short side of 1/8" gap top and bottom (slightly more top than bottom) then I moved my draw stop to bring my DL back down to just over 29. This got rid of the harsh letoff that it had before. It increased my hold weight from 12# to 20# and gave me a nice solid wall (little valley) which is a great feel for me. End result, those same arrows are now moving accross the chrony at 303fps.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudpig View Post
    gjstudt, Thanks for all the help. Even tho this is an old post it works!! I have the new Martin Silencer and it has the new Nitro 2 cams on it. This information is spot on (for any dual cam bow I think). I was shooting 385 gr arrows at 280fps with 60# and 29"DL. I twisted the cables and untwisted the string until I got to the short side of 1/8" gap top and bottom (slightly more top than bottom) then I moved my draw stop to bring my DL back down to just over 29. This got rid of the harsh letoff that it had before. It increased my hold weight from 12# to 20# and gave me a nice solid wall (little valley) which is a great feel for me. End result, those same arrows are now moving accross the chrony at 303fps.
    Mudpig

    You are very welcome. The concepts in this thread will work on the newer Martin bows as well.

  20. #20
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    Would this work on a Shadowcat to lower the knocking point? I shoot fingers and my knocking point is crazy hight, still can't get the tail low condition out of it.
    Thanks.
    Don.
    I shoot for...
    Gator Vanes....www.gatorvanes.com
    Deer Crossing Archery-LD Target Shafts-Specialty Archery-Timberdoodle ll-Bow String Depot
    I shoot these bows...Martin SepterV, Shadowcat
    I shoot bowhunter-not barebow..non-sights and fingers.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by zestycj7 View Post
    Would this work on a Shadowcat to lower the knocking point? I shoot fingers and my knocking point is crazy hight, still can't get the tail low condition out of it.
    Thanks.
    Don.
    ADD a full turn to the top limb bolt.
    REMOVE a full turn on the bottom limb bolt.

    See how that works for you.
    If things get better,
    but you STILL have some tail low condition...

    ADD another 1/4-turn to the top limb bolt
    and
    REMOVE another 1/4-turn off the bottom limb bolt.

    Keep adjusting this way,
    until you get level arrow flight.


    CONFIRM that you have the same DL module setting on the top and bottom
    (same screw hole in the top DL module and same screw hole in the bottom DL module).
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  22. #22
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    Any sugestion on where I should start with the amount of turns out on my limb bolts, or just back them both out about 3 turns from bottomed out?
    Thanks.
    Don.
    I shoot for...
    Gator Vanes....www.gatorvanes.com
    Deer Crossing Archery-LD Target Shafts-Specialty Archery-Timberdoodle ll-Bow String Depot
    I shoot these bows...Martin SepterV, Shadowcat
    I shoot bowhunter-not barebow..non-sights and fingers.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by zestycj7 View Post
    Any sugestion on where I should start with the amount of turns out on my limb bolts, or just back them both out about 3 turns from bottomed out?
    Thanks.
    Don.
    Hello Don:

    Just start from where your bolts are currently.

    Since you are getting a nock low condition,
    the bottom limb is working WAY TOO HARD.

    So,
    ADD 1 FULL TURN to the top bolt,
    and
    REMOVE 1 full turn off the bottom bolt.

    Things should get better.

    If things get better,
    then,
    try it again.

    ADD another turn on the top bolt.
    REMOVE another turn off the bottom bolt.
    www.nutsandboltsarchery.com
    http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showth...=who+wants+dvd
    Send me an email for DVD = $25.00....

    alanlui@comcast.net

  24. #24
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    How did a martin thread get 16,000 views?

  25. #25
    a good ttt for martin owners.
    Can you point me toward the target, please?

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