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Thread: Whats up with the Muzzy Trocar tip?

  1. #1

    Whats up with the Muzzy Trocar tip?

    I'm not sure what has happened to Muzzy over the years but when they first released their heads, the replaceable trocar tip was ground to a very smooth finish. Today, the tips are very rough and jagged. It doesn't take much effort to turn a trocar tip or any of the other secondary tips into a cutting type of tip by simply honing it. In my tip comparison, I found it took less than half the effort to penetrate material once the tip as honed.

    Here is the tip from a new Muzzy MX-3. You can see how rough it is.





    Here is the tip from a 100 Grain Muzzy I bought last year. The only difference is that I honed the leading edges of this tip on a whetstone.



  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I noticed that on mine too. Not very good quality control. Like you, I got the stone out and put an edge on it. I think it will still have added resistance since it is rough and not smooth.

  3. #3
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    Hey guys...I sent this to Fred Settles (Chief Operating Officer) at Muzzy and he is looking into it. I'll post whatever I find out from him.

  4. #4
    There was a thread last year about the decay of quality at Muzzy. Someone from Muzzy actually posted and said it was not true. It was about sharpness and I still believe they are not as sharp now as they were 15 years ago when I used them religiously. Now this is gonna' be even harder to deny because you can SEE the difference.

    They have a good head but it seems like cutting corners could turn them into a "wal-mart" beginners head if they are not careful.
    Bowtech Commander
    (Compound Traditionalist…and inconspicuous Old Timer)
    Bear Super Kodiak

  5. #5
    With today's cutting edge broad heads (No Pun) that is unexceptable. Fit, finish, and sharpness are all important. Muzzy looks to me like they are cutting corners to save a few $$. IMO A person shouldn't have to file a tip, when they buy a new broad head to make it sharp..
    Archery hunting low country Hog's & high country Mule Deer are my passion of hunting.....

  6. #6

    Wal mart happened!

    In order to keep prices low I am sure they had to remove a step or two to go on Wal Mart shelves. Steel prices have gone crazy along with everything else.
    Trinity Archery, Inc.
    "There is nothing more stable than the Trinity"
    www.trinityarchery.com
    Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

  7. #7
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    That really is pathetic. I have used Muzzy broadheads since I started bowhunting, but if that is how they are going to be from now on, I will be switching to something else. In fact, I would return that pack if possible.

    Ray

  8. #8
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    Interesting, it almost looks as if they are using grinders with worn out stones to cut the trocar shape.

    I also got tired of honing the tips. In addition, I couldn't get many of them to spin-test and fly with any consistency, so a couple years ago I stopped using them and switched to something else.

    HR

    BTW RC, nice photos!
    Last edited by harleyrider; August 14th, 2008 at 02:01 PM.

  9. #9
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    I heard back from Fred and Mark Land (Tech services for Muzzy and Archery Talk Member) is supposed to be responding to this at some point. If there is one thing I can say about Muzzy is that their Customer Service is great as they were very quick to respond to me.


    Rancid,

    Was the whole pack like this?

  10. #10
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    indians used to use rocks for heads they didnt have a problem. Did it effect your arrow flight??

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac420 View Post
    indians used to use rocks for heads they didnt have a problem. Did it effect your arrow flight??
    thats a pretty big gap in technollogy comparison....

  12. #12
    Hold the phone!! Put away the pitch forks and torches, no need to storm the Muzzy headquarters. I don't want this to become an outrageous bashing of Muzzy. Even with the trocar tip on the rough side, the Muzzy is a good head with a good reputation. I won't be returning these heads as I don't hunt with them. I am a broadhead collector. Just know that any head can be improved with a little effort on your part.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC420 View Post
    indians used to use rocks for heads they didnt have a problem. Did it effect your arrow flight??
    Indians had no other choice.
    Trinity Archery, Inc.
    "There is nothing more stable than the Trinity"
    www.trinityarchery.com
    Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree View Post
    Hold the phone!! Put away the pitch forks and torches, no need to storm the Muzzy headquarters. I don't want this to become an outrageous bashing of Muzzy. Even with the trocar tip on the rough side, the Muzzy is a good head with a good reputation. I won't be returning these heads as I don't hunt with them. I am a broadhead collector. Just know that any head can be improved with a little effort on your part.
    Thanks Rancid for saying that. I sent it to Muzzy as I know they are very concerned about the quality and name of their brand. They were quick to respond to me and I think they would just like to know what happened with their product.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC420 View Post
    indians used to use rocks for heads they didnt have a problem. Did it effect your arrow flight??
    You're kidding right?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenhead3 View Post
    Indians had no other choice.
    snarfle

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree View Post
    Hold the phone!! Put away the pitch forks and torches, no need to storm the Muzzy headquarters. I don't want this to become an outrageous bashing of Muzzy. Even with the trocar tip on the rough side, the Muzzy is a good head with a good reputation. I won't be returning these heads as I don't hunt with them. I am a broadhead collector. Just know that any head can be improved with a little effort on your part.
    I agree that the Muzzy is a great head. The only reason I swithced to Magnus is that I can resharpen. That and they are great heads as well.
    Trinity Archery, Inc.
    "There is nothing more stable than the Trinity"
    www.trinityarchery.com
    Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live4Rut View Post
    You're kidding right?
    exactly what I was thinking

  19. #19
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    I do not see why anyone would buy a broadhead that they are going to have to improve on when they get home??? Just doesn't make sense to me!

  20. #20
    I have Muzzy heads in my collection back to the beginning and because of that, I can compare and the diff in quality of the tip is evident. The early heads are perfectly smooth.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Live4Rut View Post
    You're kidding right?
    no im not. i guess its just me but i dont get it.

  22. #22
    I can assure you that this is far from the norm and very unusual for the tips. You have to consider that we go thru millions of tips a year and although we try to QC every single part that is produced, it is possible for something cosmetically rough to get thru since there is such a volume of parts being produced. All it takes is for an insert or cutter to become dull or crack a delicate edge and you can have a few parts get roughed up quickly. Parts are checked on a constant basis as they are machined and are handled several more times thru the cleaning, hardening and packaging process, so it is troubling to see a part like that get out of our plant.
    We have never reduced our quality of materials or manufacturing since the beginning of the company and have in fact improved many processes along the way, including blade sharpness. We had some complaints of sharpness a few years ago and completely revamped the honing process we use to ensure the blade we were providing were the sharpest we could produce, this has resulted in our sharpest blades ever over the last few years, this has not been a recent problem! You also need to keep in mind that we are 1 of very few manufacturers that actully produce our own parts and do not outsource production overseas to boot! We could definitely take the easy route and outsource production overseas but do take a stand to keep our products American made and produced and we are very proud of that even though it does cost us more money to do so.
    I do find it concerning that when problem does occur with a product that the person feels like the 1st step would be to display and bad talk the product on a public forum before they contact the manufacture to address the problem or situation. Since there is such a volume, it is possible for any manufacture to have a bad part go out, but we always take care of any problems that may occur and do so very promptly. If any customer has any problems with our product we want to hear about it so we can correct it for them and address the situation. Since most problems are very isolated, we can handle those quickly and get it taken care of, when it is posted on a public forum it gives the impression that the manufacturer does not or is not willing to do anything about it or can even give that impression that they are unconcerned about the issue. I can definitely say that is not the case with Muzzy or the industry manufacturers that I know personally and we are very concerned about our products, how they are used and the public perception of them as well. We stand behind every one of our products and I can say that if this gentleman contacted us on this problem, those tips would have been replaced instantly and any problems he had would be taken care of as best we could. However an attempt was made to bash the product even though he had experienced great success and results with them previously! Some things that occur on these forums really suprise me, but I do try to stay on and monitor the threads and address and help out as much as possible, but I no longer stay heavily involved in most threads since they always tend to degrade quickly and head off in way too many directions.
    Muzzy products are guaranteed and ensured of customer satisfaction and if there is a problem, then please address that with us and we will happily take care of it ASAP! Public forums can be great resources for information, tips and techniques, but I feel that lately they have become a source to bash others, their choices, decisions and other products and services as well. If a customer feels like they were not treated well by the manufacturer with a problem they had with a particular product, then I can fully understand posting information about that, but to not give them a chance to take care of the situation or even offer a reason for the problem is not acceptable.
    I am availabel by e-mail, phone, PM's on most of the sites and am here normally 5 days a week from 8:30-5 Eastern and can assure you that I will be glad to assist anyone with any problems they have with our products. You contact me by any means and you will be contacted very shortly! Ya'll have a nice day! Mark

  23. #23
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    I have had a few Trocar tips out of a pack from the last year or two look exactly as the original poster's pic. I thought his post was helpful, as I had not considered hitting them on a stone. I simply had enough extra tips left around from using Muzzy's for years, and years that I used the rough ones for my practice heads. I read/post on this forum and others so I can learn from and share my experiences with a variety of products, and techniques. I guess I'm missing all the "bashing" in this post, although I can understand how a manufacture can get thin skinned especially since Muzzy's although beloved by myself are probably the most bashed broadhead on the market today IMO.

  24. #24
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    It is tough to compete with companies who produce outside the US, but good customer service still prevails. If a customer calls with a legitimate problem it should be handled with care.
    I purchased some Muzzy 75 grain Broadheads about 4 years ago, and when I weighed them they weighed 85 grains (the scale was verified accurate). When I called Muzzy, the guy told me I probably could not shoot accurately enough to tell the difference. OUCH. I regularly practice at 80 yards and take extra care in assembly of my arrows. He also said if I sent them back, they would check them and send me a new pack.
    I took them back to the store I bought them from and have not bought Muzzy since then. With all the competition out there, I would be careful not to insult any of my customers.

  25. #25
    I would find that very unusual to recieve a response like that, in fact I know I would never insult any customer, that is assinine! We do offer to review the product to determine what maybe the problem and replace those if their is a problem, but not to tell our customers that they could not shoot well enough to tell any difference, that is just absurb. I would find a 10gr difference in head very alarming and definitely not the usual, there had to be some reason for that difference and I am sure with the product in hand we could have made that determination and corrected the problem. Thanks! Mark

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