backwards crossbow?

[yooper_sjd]

just wondering who came up with that bright idea of reversing the limbs on a crossbow? was ca-ruising a Natchez catalog and see one by Horton, and another company out there got the same design but with stick limbs. just wondering whom came up with idea first? anyone? anyone?

[emmevi]

and the inventor was Leonardo DaVinci

Then a couple of comanies developed a modern compound concept :

RDT in US and Armcross in Russia
Horton licensed the design from Armcross

That is my understanding
Mirko

[Mike-]

And are very quiet.

Mike

[emmevi]

I tried out the RDT at the ATA show last year and I have to admit it is one of tw quietest I have ever handled.
(it was heavy however)
Not had a chance to shoot the Horton but I am really curious about it...

Mirko

[Stash]

The Horton Recon is also quite heavy, but it balances nicely. The tactical stock is well built and much quieter than the Parker version which rattles around.

The Recon is the quietest crossbow I've ever shot. The noise of the arrow inpacting on a Block type target 20 yards away is greater than the sound of the actual shot.

Overall a well-built bow, but quite expensive.

[Moonkryket]

a very nice crossbow package but the 10+ lbs. with quiver setup is out of the question (IMO). There are ways they could have cut quite bit of weight off the bow but..................................... It's also easier to make a 290 fps crossbow quiet than a 350 fps one.

[Mike-]

It's also easier to make a 290 fps crossbow quiet than a 350 fps one.

Funny!
By design, this design will be quieter at any given speed than a conventional crossbow.

But I do agree, the thing could be lighter. But as Stash says, at the shoulder, the weight and overall feel, is very comfortable....to me.
The greater portion of the weight is close to the shoulder...not hanging way out on a lever to make it "feel" even heavier...like on a "normal" bow.
Kan't get around that!

Mike

[Moonkryket]

to make it shoot a 400 grain arrow 350 fps and as quiet as the existing Recon. Tough job huh? I was not comparing the Recon to any conventional crossbow and find it interesting that you found it funny and obviously thought I was Now that's funny

10-11 pounds feels heavy on my shoulder hauling it 600 yards to and from my treestand. I have not found a way to make 11 lbs. feel lightweight, but it could be just me I REKON that's why I have no RECON :-)

[eugene1e®]

I beleive Chuck Nease came up with this design before he sold CSS Arcery to horton

[Stash]

http://www.armcross.ru/arm/crossbows.php?id=13&page=1

This is the first one I ever heard of, as emmevi mentioned. Russian design.

[Moonkryket]

The Armcross is interesting, but if a string or limb ever lets go it's coming back at you
I see no real advantages of limbs facing forward, at least enough to convince me to buy one.JMO

Now this is another story. The SCM Twinbow II is small, narrow, light weight, with virtually no recoil and is the quietest crossbow I've ever shot...........with the best factory trigger I've seen and it's an all stainless steel trigger system, no tuning problems, no cables, string center serving can be re-served easily without removing the string from the bow and a one of a kind cocking and de-cocking system. A 20" 400 grain hunting weight arrow will chrono at just under 325 fps with lighter weight arrows chronographing upwards of 375 fps.

[willie]

Originally Posted by Stash

http://www.armcross.ru/arm/crossbows.php?id=13&page=1

This is the first one I ever heard of, as emmevi mentioned. Russian design.

I think RDT was first with the design.

This had to be 5 or 6 years ago at the ATA..

Jim C woudl remember..

[Moonkryket]

but smoothe and quiet. Too big and bulky I think. I wonder how they are doing? I am seeing the Recon in a famous shooting supplies catalog (big discount). Not a good sign

[abraxas9083]

The inventors of the reversing limbs was not Leonardo Da Vinci, it was a China invention in the Han Dinasty.



After that, Russian make first crossbows with reverse limbs (80´s)

http://arbalet.info/image/gallery/selfmade/avar/002.htm

Comercial companies first was RDT Archery in the ATA 2005, then Armcross(2007) and last was Horton (2008)

[hunter41606]

I dont know the first but I do know that Scorpyd (formerly RDT) is very nice and is extremely quiet... Since my neighbor is in the business with Jim Kempf who is the owner of Scorpyd than you can obviously guess that i have shot it quite a few times (around 200). It has no recoil at all and it is whisper quiet but i have little experience with crossbows since i amhealthy and i live in iowa than i have no need for one. Check out Scorpyd at the ATA show. Ill be there probably punching tickets lol...And i think that they will be on the market before next season but not for sure...they should be

[hunter41606]

just so u know its still rdt but just a diff name

[Wyvern Creations]

DaVinci's design did do one thing that the Chinese one did not...it used rollers up front that made the string pull the bow straight forward rather than out to the sides like on a conventional bow. The straight line pull was more efficient and the added mechanical advatage of the rollers made a light bow act like a heavy one...
Wyvern

[kennisondan]

Then I am of the opinion that that davinci fella was smart .. smarter than a chinese, even... an ever body knows them dudes is capital S smart... made fireworks and gunpowder and everything...
but old leonardo used the rollers.. WOW...
I bet that is why leonardo di caprio is named after him.. whatcha think ?

(interesting discussion and historical lesson as well... I love this site.)
dk

[willie]

Originally Posted by abraxas9083

..........

Commercial companies first was RDT Archery in the ATA 2005, then Armcross(2007) and last was Horton (2008)

Yep... you were right on RDT. I went back and looked at the date on the picture and it was at the 2005 ATA show....

[dyeclan]

Originally Posted by Moonkryket

The Armcross is interesting, but if a string or limb ever lets go it's coming back at you
I see no real advantages of limbs facing forward, at least enough to convince me to buy one.JMO

Just so you know, I had a reCon do just that, and the stuff flies side to side, not back. If anything, it's flung forward. Limb pieces will go to the side.

As for the weight and price, check out the new Horton Vision 175. They addressed both issues, though I love my reCon as is.

[baxter]

How do everyone. It has been a long time since Iv'e been on, kinda busy. To give alittle update, I changed the name of my company from RDT to SCORPYD, a play on the word Scorpion. I was finally issued the Patents for Reverse Draw Technology in Feb '08, and Front of Cam string technology April '08. We have 2 models that will be shipping mid Feb. '09. The SCORPYD RDT100 will be 330 fps, 350 grain arrow, 85# kinetic energy, and the 125 will be 370 fps, 350 grain arrow, 110# kinetic energy. They will be dealer direct or thruogh our website if no one in your area. Web site will HOPEFULLY be up in about a week or so. Please bear with me. It has been a long haul. I was hoping to have been delivering bows last summer, but sh#! happens. Some specs are weight, right at 9#, trigger pull of 2.5# (and still VERY safe), super quiet.

Its kind of crazy, some other blogs have been doing a little ripping on the performance. [I]i'll believe the speed when I see it.[I] It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. A 20" power stroke, and 100# or 125#??!!
come on, do the math. A compound bow, 70# 30" draw, 8" brace height, (22" power stroke) shoots well over 300 fps.

I'll try to get on a little more often, If any of you have questions, let me know. And by the way, for those of you wondering , Reverse Draw with the string on the front of the cam was invented by little ol' me, and its MADE IN THE USA!!!

[Moonkryket]

Congrats on your reverse limb technology. It was thought that the Russian model had the patent but they ovbviously did not.

Please give us arrow speeds using standard 400 to 425 grain arrow weights that are used for bowhunting.

What is the axle to axle width?

Flat nocks or moon nocks?

I still think you should change the limbs' angle to narrow the bow

[baxter]

Axle to axle is 22.5" at rest, 17.5" when cocked. I'll do some testing with those weights and get back to you.

[baxter]

Forgot,!!! you MUST use half moon nocks, the anti-dryfire is designed to use them.

[Moonkryket]

??

Your thoughts on a bow mounted quiver for hunting?

Barrel track depth? (some crossbow depths are not deep enough for Blazer vanes)

Can you post some photos of top and bottom of the crossbow?

Your thoughts on a portable harness for easy string changing?

[tryinhardarcher]

Check out the new Horton. At 325 fps a little over 8#s and a msrp of 799.99 and it still has the rev. limb tec.. This promises to be one of the hottest new bows for 09.

[Moonkryket]

This bow changed my mind about reverse limb crossbows. It's cool but the real test is long term shooting and durability. I do think Horton has finally hit a home run.

[BUS314]

Originally Posted by Moonkryket

The Armcross is interesting, but if a string or limb ever lets go it's coming back at you
I see no real advantages of limbs facing forward, at least enough to convince me to buy one.JMO

Now this is another story. The SCM Twinbow II is small, narrow, light weight, with virtually no recoil and is the quietest crossbow I've ever shot...........with the best factory trigger I've seen and it's an all stainless steel trigger system, no tuning problems, no cables, string center serving can be re-served easily without removing the string from the bow and a one of a kind cocking and de-cocking system. A 20" 400 grain hunting weight arrow will chrono at just under 325 fps with lighter weight arrows chronographing upwards of 375 fps.

Any idea of how much $$$ & where to buy??

[Moonkryket]

:-)