I've searched for comparisons between these two bows, but haven't found much. Anyone have experience shooting both. I would assume the Hoyt is easily the better bow, but how much better? Especially with the cost difference between the two.
Gamemaster II vs. Martin Diablo
erotomaniac1928
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I've searched for comparisons between these two bows, but haven't found much. Anyone have experience shooting both. I would assume the Hoyt is easily the better bow, but how much better? Especially with the cost difference between the two.
hello, i do not have a martin diablo but i do have a 2014 martin jaguar and now that martin got the limb problem fixed you can buy with confidence, [same limbs for both bows] and dont know if this means anything but there seems to be a lot of hoyt takedowns for sale on the classifies. my jaguar is very quick and smooth and with the use of a center shot type rest very tunable with several different spine arrows, i quess what i am saying is sometimes you get more than what you pay for [such as the samick sage for example]rich pyle
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Your not finding any comparison information on the two bows because they could not be more unalike.......It's apples to oranges. And I wouldn't naturally assume the Hoyt is a better bow because of it's name. The Martin Super Diablo has been around for decades now and is widely regarded as one of the best designed recurves of all time. You would necessarily have to handle and shoot each bow to decide which rout is best for you.
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Hey Roger, I should clarify I do not mean the Martin Super Diablo. I'm referring to the Diablo (formerly Panther) takedown bow. It has an olympic style riser similar to the gamemaster and is meant to compete with it. Sorry about the confusion.
Thanks Rich! I have a Jag too with no limb problems. Only reasoning I'm considering the Diablo over a Hoyt at all.
Thanks Rich! I have a Jag too with no limb problems. Only reasoning I'm considering the Diablo over a Hoyt at all.
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I've shot the gamemaster but only drawn the Diablo as it was RH. My take; all of these bows inc the Hoyt Buffalo and Das in that group are going to be pretty decent- the Das I shot was really smooth and better than the Gamemaster but I'm sure mostly due to quality of the limb. The limbs that come with the Diablo and gamemaster are of cheap construction. If you have ever shot a cheap fiberglass/wood core limb next to a quality limb- you will be shocked at the difference.
If it were me and I was drawn to these type bows I would go ILF system though as you have much better choices for limb options; size, weight, quality, price. I know the ILF limbs can be modified to fit some of these models- but not sure on which.
If it were me and I was drawn to these type bows I would go ILF system though as you have much better choices for limb options; size, weight, quality, price. I know the ILF limbs can be modified to fit some of these models- but not sure on which.
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eroto', got it, thank you for the clarification.
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I've owned a Martin Saber and currently own a gm2.
I'd go gm2 hands down. Limbs are always poping up here. You can easily put ilf limbs on it. Unless your draw is more than 29..I'd definitely go gm2.
I'd go gm2 hands down. Limbs are always poping up here. You can easily put ilf limbs on it. Unless your draw is more than 29..I'd definitely go gm2.
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I have both bows, and while I am just getting into the recurve game, here are my uneducated observations:
Finish: I have the carbon Panther and mostly because of the milling techniques, it has a lot of sharp corners and edges that are starting to silver. My GM even though I bought it used, shows little wear.
Fit: The limb to riser fit is similar and snug for both. Martin supplies a set of limb pads to dampen vibration, you have to spend about a dollar to make your own for the Hoyt.
Design: The GM and Panther look alike, but there are geometry difference. Here is where my lack of recurve experience may get me into trouble, but I don't find one to be easier or more forgiving to shoot than the other. One is slightly reflexed (Panther) and one is slightly deflexed (GM), so the consensus is that the deflexed GM is more forgiving and the Panther is "twitchy." Again, I can't feel the difference.
Limbs: Better limbs, by virtue of the fact that any ILF limb can be made to fit, will be available for the GM; from the mild to the wild! Having said that, there are some limb options for the Martin, since there are several other bows that use the same limb pocket dimensions (Samick, OMP, Ragim, etc...) but the quality hits a ceiling quite a bit lower that what is available for the GM.
Other points to note: I do like the vibration dampening on the Martin and it seems to work. After finding the sweet spot in the brace height and tying on cat whiskers, the Martin is very quiet of of the supplied plastic center rest. My GM took a little more time to get as quiet. The grip on the Martin is not terrible, but I am shooting it often enough that I am wearing a hole in the rubber that wraps around the front of the riser. The leather on the back of the grip wrinkled up in a week and was removed. Hoyt has a wooden grip, and custom grips are available. If you plan to shoot off of the shelf at some point, I would get the GM. The Martin has a rubber covered shelf and is cut like a compound bow. Perfect for an elevated rest, but will require a lot of build up for the strike plate. The GM riser is less cut beyond center and has a radius cut shelf; easily set up for shooting of of the shelf.
Do I think that the Martin is garbage, next to the GM? Heck no. If you can find one used and had a tight budget, the Panther is a capable bow. It has it's limitations, but propelling arrows in an accurate manner is not one of them. Is the GM a perfect bow? No, but it definitely gives the shooter more options not available on the Panther.
I hope that helps.
cricman
Finish: I have the carbon Panther and mostly because of the milling techniques, it has a lot of sharp corners and edges that are starting to silver. My GM even though I bought it used, shows little wear.
Fit: The limb to riser fit is similar and snug for both. Martin supplies a set of limb pads to dampen vibration, you have to spend about a dollar to make your own for the Hoyt.
Design: The GM and Panther look alike, but there are geometry difference. Here is where my lack of recurve experience may get me into trouble, but I don't find one to be easier or more forgiving to shoot than the other. One is slightly reflexed (Panther) and one is slightly deflexed (GM), so the consensus is that the deflexed GM is more forgiving and the Panther is "twitchy." Again, I can't feel the difference.
Limbs: Better limbs, by virtue of the fact that any ILF limb can be made to fit, will be available for the GM; from the mild to the wild! Having said that, there are some limb options for the Martin, since there are several other bows that use the same limb pocket dimensions (Samick, OMP, Ragim, etc...) but the quality hits a ceiling quite a bit lower that what is available for the GM.
Other points to note: I do like the vibration dampening on the Martin and it seems to work. After finding the sweet spot in the brace height and tying on cat whiskers, the Martin is very quiet of of the supplied plastic center rest. My GM took a little more time to get as quiet. The grip on the Martin is not terrible, but I am shooting it often enough that I am wearing a hole in the rubber that wraps around the front of the riser. The leather on the back of the grip wrinkled up in a week and was removed. Hoyt has a wooden grip, and custom grips are available. If you plan to shoot off of the shelf at some point, I would get the GM. The Martin has a rubber covered shelf and is cut like a compound bow. Perfect for an elevated rest, but will require a lot of build up for the strike plate. The GM riser is less cut beyond center and has a radius cut shelf; easily set up for shooting of of the shelf.
Do I think that the Martin is garbage, next to the GM? Heck no. If you can find one used and had a tight budget, the Panther is a capable bow. It has it's limitations, but propelling arrows in an accurate manner is not one of them. Is the GM a perfect bow? No, but it definitely gives the shooter more options not available on the Panther.
I hope that helps.
cricman
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Thanks for the insight, guys! It seems the consensus is the Diablo/Panther itself is a good bow compared to the GM, but the GM has a higher ceiling with limb options/shelf. A pure ILF riser is an option too.
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Not quite the same comparison but I've got the saber and Tiburon. If you go Hoyt, I'd get the Tiburon versus GM. The limbs can be adjusted up/down a few pounds in weight and they match the Hoyt F series which are interchangeable without any modifications. GM is similar to the dorado. Limbs aren't adjustable and are proprietary to the bow. The tiburon's limbs can be swapped with the buffalo if you have one laying around. I'd recommend the 64 amo version. Longer is generally a more forgiving and smoother shooting bow.
The panther is the 2014 re-named version of the diablo. It's less reflex than the saber so it's probably not quite as twitchy shooting it. Not a bad bow although a lot of people will say that since it uses a compound riser it must be crap. It's got a good amount of mass to it so it's inherently stable because of it. If you can get past its less than ideal appearance it's a good bow for the money. For hunting though, it's a bear to carry around since it is kind of heavy if you're into spot & stalk..
The panther is the 2014 re-named version of the diablo. It's less reflex than the saber so it's probably not quite as twitchy shooting it. Not a bad bow although a lot of people will say that since it uses a compound riser it must be crap. It's got a good amount of mass to it so it's inherently stable because of it. If you can get past its less than ideal appearance it's a good bow for the money. For hunting though, it's a bear to carry around since it is kind of heavy if you're into spot & stalk..
I'm a very satisfied Gamemaster II owner... even in the light of various other bows I own. I shoot off the shelf with a rug rest and some furniture pads to build out the shelf.
The ILF limb conversion is dead simple... you can DIY or buy them for $20 from Lancaster.
The stock Hoyt GM2 limbs are bombproof and solid... you're giving up 5-10fps probably versus a better limb in a reasonable price. The deer will probably not notice the difference.
If it matters to you, reselling a GM2 is a heck of a lot easier - there's just more demand in the market for it.
The ILF limb conversion is dead simple... you can DIY or buy them for $20 from Lancaster.
The stock Hoyt GM2 limbs are bombproof and solid... you're giving up 5-10fps probably versus a better limb in a reasonable price. The deer will probably not notice the difference.
If it matters to you, reselling a GM2 is a heck of a lot easier - there's just more demand in the market for it.
Very different grips and balance. Try and find someone who can let you shoot both before you buy.
I started out this year with a Pinnacle II but soon switched to the Titan risers simple due to the grip and extra weight. I wish I had been able to shoot a Titan first.
I started out this year with a Pinnacle II but soon switched to the Titan risers simple due to the grip and extra weight. I wish I had been able to shoot a Titan first.
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My GM2 is about 1/2" deflexed- very close to neutral. The Panther/Diablo is about 1-1/2" reflexed. I think Dorados are about 3/4" deflexed (I will be able to check on Friday!) These are eye-ball spec dimensions, as recalled from checking way back in August! Now I will need to check later and see how well my feeble memory is holding up!
cricman
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I stand corrected. The GM2 is reflexed a little! I just made accurate measurements, as follows:
Panther/Diablo: 1-7/16" reflex
Dorado: 5/8" deflex
Gamemaster I: 1/4" deflex
Gamemaster II: 1/4" reflex
All of these bows have stock grips. Again, I am not experienced enough yet to feel the difference.
cricman
Panther/Diablo: 1-7/16" reflex
Dorado: 5/8" deflex
Gamemaster I: 1/4" deflex
Gamemaster II: 1/4" reflex
All of these bows have stock grips. Again, I am not experienced enough yet to feel the difference.
cricman
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Eventually you will be able to tell the difference. The more deflex the more forgiving. I hunt with a dorado riser and love it.
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What do the differences in reflex and deflex feel like between the hoyts?
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Picture balancing a bent stick on your finger. What's going to balance better a stick that bends up towards the sky (reflex) or one that bends towards the ground (deflex)??
Risers are a balance between speed (reflex) and shootablity (deflex). I'll take deflex every time.
Risers are a balance between speed (reflex) and shootablity (deflex). I'll take deflex every time.
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