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Tuning a hoyt carbon spyder

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kdog23

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Ok guys I am now totally confused. I am used to tuning my elite answer but my Hoyt I am struggling with.

I have a press and draw board and have been trying to get this bow into spec but am struggling.

Bow
2014 CS 34 with 29.5 mods. They are in the correct position (B I think)
Currently measures put as follows
Draw length 30"
Draw weight 69.5 ( limbs maxed down)
Brace 7"
ATA 34 3/8"

I am trying to get it to spec (brace at 6 3/4" and draw weight at 70 or a little above) and a draw length of 29 3/4 or 7/8 rather than 30 knowing some Hoyts run long.

I have been twisting the string and cables but I am finding that if I twist the cables weight goes up but so does brace and draw length ( at least it did on my elite and seems to be doing the same here)

Twisting the string brings draw length closer to where it should be but is increasing the brace and lowering the weight.

Untwisting the cables also reduces draw weight but would get me closer to the right draw length and brace.

As you can see I my overall lack of experience in terms of the relation ship between the string and cables to know the right ratio of twist on cables and string is causing me to feel like I am in a loop I cannot excape

Good news is the cams are timed well. Top hits just barely before the bottom and the top cam is balanced well so I am not looking to adjust those.

Please help folks

Thanks in advance.
 
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#5 ·
Remember that the factory specs should be measured when the bow draw weight is adjusted at max. What I do is adjust bow to max next adjust cables to factory specs and then I start tuning. I'm not one of the guys who cares if the draw length change 1/8". I see no difference in my shooting. So once I get the bow to shoot bullet hole thru paper with bareshaft I'm satisfied.
 
#6 ·
Adjust the control and buss cable accordingly, remember you need about 4 twist of the control to achieve what the buss cable will with 1, I'd adjust the buss and then remove some twist from the control. My friend has one and we were tuning the other day and this is what we did to both bows his and mine and both came out good. You have to play with it back and forth, 1 twist here, half a twist there and get it to where you want. Hope it helps!
 
#7 ·
Do you have the factory grip, side plates, or bare riser? You gain 1/4 draw and brace height with side plates or bare riser.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
ycastane said:
Adjust the control and buss cable accordingly, remember you need about 4 twist of the control to achieve what the buss cable will with 1, I'd adjust the buss and then remove some twist from the control. My friend has one and we were tuning the other day and this is what we did to both bows his and mine and both came out good. You have to play with it back and forth, 1 twist here, half a twist there and get it to where you want. Hope it helps!
Click to expand...
This is helpful. I did not realize that the control and buss were a 4 to 1 relationship. I have been twisting them fairly evenly and assuming that since the timing was still maintained that I was good. I will play with that tonight.
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
mez said:
What spike camp said. I'll also add that a Hoyt is going to have a lot more twist in the buss cable than the control cable.
Click to expand...
This is where I think I was going wrong, I assumed the two cables operated like my binary cams on my elite did, clearly not the case!

I may just start over as I should be able to find a way to tension the cables and strings on my draw board some how.
 
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#12 ·
kdog23 said:
This is where I think I was going wrong, I assumed the two cables operated like my binary cams on my elite did, clearly not the case!

I may just start over as I should be able to find a way to tension the cables and strings on my draw board some how.
Click to expand...
I use my draw board to measure under 100#.
Pelouze scale attached to cams....I use the cable posts on the cams when under tension since you want that diameter post anyway for an accurate measurement.
 
#13 ·
kdog23 said:
Ok guys I am now totally confused. I am used to tuning my elite answer but my Hoyt I am struggling with.

I have a press and draw board and have been trying to get this bow into spec but am struggling.

Bow
2014 CS 34 with 29.5 mods. They are in the correct position (B I think)
Currently measures put as follows
Draw length 30"
Draw weight 69.5 ( limbs maxed down)
Brace 7"
ATA 34 3/8"

I am trying to get it to spec (brace at 6 3/4" and draw weight at 70 or a little above) and a draw length of 29 3/4 or 7/8 rather than 30 knowing some Hoyts run long.

I have been twisting the string and cables but I am finding that if I twist the cables weight goes up but so does brace and draw length ( at least it did on my elite and seems to be doing the same here)

Twisting the string brings draw length closer to where it should be but is increasing the brace and lowering the weight.

Untwisting the cables also reduces draw weight but would get me closer to the right draw length and brace.

As you can see I my overall lack of experience in terms of the relation ship between the string and cables to know the right ratio of twist on cables and string is causing me to feel like I am in a loop I cannot excape

Good news is the cams are timed well. Top hits just barely before the bottom and the top cam is balanced well so I am not looking to adjust those.

Please help folks

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
http://hoyt.com/uploads/tune-charts/d6356d53e9acc804bbb83beb8624e12e4c97c6a8.pdf

29.5-inch draw length = "B" DL modules

String with 1/4-inch diameter posts inside the end loop, stretched to 100 lbs of tension...measuring from metal post to metal post, the length = 60.13-inches.
Draw board winch is VERY handy for measuring strings or cables.





Adjustable chain link comes in handy..find a link where the wire diameter is 1/4-inch.





So, get the bowstring back to 60.13-inches at 100 lbs of tension using your draw board winch....60-1/8th inches.
So, get the buss cable back to 36.63-inches at 100 lbs of tension using your draw board winch....36-5/8ths inches.
So, get the control cable back to 38.75-inches at 100 lbs of tension.

AFTER you get the buss cable back to spec length, after you get the control cable back to spec length, after you get the bowstring back to spec length, re-install the string and the buss cable and the control cable. NEXT, measure draw weight with the limb bolts at maximum. Don't bother measuring ATA. ATA is using a tape measure to GUESS what is the draw weight. Since you have a scale, skip measuring ATA and go STRAIGHT to the draw board and a scale. IF the draw weight is lower than you LIKE...then, go back to the bow press and twist the bottom of the buss cable and add a twist or two or three..whatever floats your boat. Back to the draw board, and check max draw weight. NOT happy with the draw weight? Want 70.1 lbs or 72 lbs of draw weight? FINE. BAck to the bow press and add some more twists to the buss cable. If you like, add twists to all three end loops, to keep the bottom of the yoke legs looking pretty (not all twisted up). Back to the draw board, and FINALLY...you are happy with draw weight. DONE with the buss cable.

NOW, check cam sync on the draw board. You want the top cam to kiss the cables FIRST and about 1/16th of a gap between the bottom cam draw stop and the cable.







The draw board just gets you to a GOOD STARTING point for cam sync. Still have to go shoot some arrows, and bring a portable bow press and fine tune the cam sync, for BEST results, when YOU shoot your bow. If the gap is TOO LARGE between the bottom draw stop and the cable...work the CONTROL CABLE only at this point, cuz you already checked the buss cable for the MAX draw weight that you like. Keep things simple. Get the string/cables back to spec length. WORK buss cable for MAX draw weight. Work the control cable to CONTROL your cam sync. Get it? As long as you stay ORGANIZED...it is not difficult.



The CONTROL cable wraps around a TINY TINY pulley on the bottom cam (see YELLOW ARROW for control cable bottom end loop, ALWAYS IN THE SAME direction as the bowstring. Notice how the BUSS CABLE wraps around the peg, in the OPPOSITE direction (see RED ARROW for buss cable bottom end loop)? So WHAT? Well, this means that the control cable and the BUSS CABLE always work AGAINST each other. So, when you UNTWIST the control cable..to fine tune CAM SYNC..well, you COULD get the same effect on CAM SYNC, by doing the OPPOSITE to the buss cable, namely TWIST the buss cable. BUT, you noticed, that when you WORK the BUSS cable, you get SIDE EFFECTS. If you work the BUSS CABLE to fine tune CAM SYNC, you also grow brace, you change draw weight, you change draw length, and ATA. So, your choice.
 
#14 ·
kdog23 said:
Ok guys I am now totally confused. I am used to tuning my elite answer but my Hoyt I am struggling with.

I have a press and draw board and have been trying to get this bow into spec but am struggling.

Bow
2014 CS 34 with 29.5 mods. They are in the correct position (B I think)
Currently measures put as follows
Draw length 30"
Draw weight 69.5 ( limbs maxed down)
Brace 7"
ATA 34 3/8"

I am trying to get it to spec (brace at 6 3/4" and draw weight at 70 or a little above) and a draw length of 29 3/4 or 7/8 rather than 30 knowing some Hoyts run long.

I have been twisting the string and cables but I am finding that if I twist the cables weight goes up but so does brace and draw length ( at least it did on my elite and seems to be doing the same here)

Twisting the string brings draw length closer to where it should be but is increasing the brace and lowering the weight.

Untwisting the cables also reduces draw weight but would get me closer to the right draw length and brace.

As you can see I my overall lack of experience in terms of the relation ship between the string and cables to know the right ratio of twist on cables and string is causing me to feel like I am in a loop I cannot excape

Good news is the cams are timed well. Top hits just barely before the bottom and the top cam is balanced well so I am not looking to adjust those.

Please help folks

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
What about the bowstring? Well, when you SHORTEN a bowstring, the draw weight goes DOWN...and holding weight goes UP. When you LENGTHEN a bowstring, the DRAW WEIGHT always goes UP. BUT BUT BUT, this means when a bowstring STRETCHES...the draw weight goes UP? Yup. Draw weight ONLY goes DOWN, if the buss cable stretches. BUT BUT BUT, what if my brace is WAY WAY OUT of whack, as in the brace is TOO LONG? Then, you probably messed up the bowstring, and the bowstring is TOO LONG, and the cams are un-winding so the cams spin away from each other, and the brace gets longer. When you get lost, just fine the Hoyt Tune Chart, look up the specs for lengths, and start back at the beginning..which is what you are doing.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Awesome guys. I worked the bow over. With the advice on how the buss and control work this worked much better. I am now right where I wanted to be. Much appreciated!
 
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#17 ·
That's a good explanation Alan.
 
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#18 ·
ycastane said:
Adjust the control and buss cable accordingly, remember you need about 4 twist of the control to achieve what the buss cable will with 1, I'd adjust the buss and then remove some twist from the control. My friend has one and we were tuning the other day and this is what we did to both bows his and mine and both came out good. You have to play with it back and forth, 1 twist here, half a twist there and get it to where you want. Hope it helps!
Click to expand...
what controls axle to axle? The string or the control cable? Of both?
 
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