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Jake Kaminski vs USAA

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Jim C

· Archery Coach
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
My wife just emailed me and told me to go to Two time silver medalist (men's team) Jake Kaminski's FB page. WOW

https://www.facebook.com/kaminskijake/

I don't know what to think about this and won't damn or support anyone or any group until I learn more but its hard to think of an archer who has been more dedicated to the sport than Jake. I will state up front I have had some public arguments with him on this very forum but my issues with him in the past certainly were not based on any perception of a lack of dedication.
 
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#2 ·
Ditto Jim.

I have the utmost respect for Jake as an athlete and competitor. He has no doubt done everything USArchery and their sponsors have asked of him since 2006. Hopefully he finds a way to continue competing. But I for one would totally understand if he just said "screw it" and walked away. USArchery and its politics and policies can do that to a person, and has many times. #noaccountability #justlikecongress
 
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#4 ·
SO, is this why he is shooting Recurve Flights in Vegas?
 
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#6 ·
All this over a trip to China? Something ain't right........
 
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#8 ·
limbwalker said:
Ditto Jim.

I have the utmost respect for Jake as an athlete and competitor. He has no doubt done everything USArchery and their sponsors have asked of him since 2006. Hopefully he finds a way to continue competing. But I for one would totally understand if he just said "screw it" and walked away. USArchery and its politics and policies can do that to a person, and has many times. #noaccountability #justlikecongress
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John, Your Hash Tags says it all!
 
#9 ·
Every company in the USA that provides health insurance and pay, has requirements for that health insurance and pay. mandatory work, minimum work hours etc.

USA Archery is no different. Jake is/was an employee of USA archery. He has to abide by the requirements to keep insurance and the athlete stipend.

While i dont know exactly why he cant attend the required tournament or tournaments, If USA archery is no longer paying him or insuring him, i would imagine they will use that money to go to another qualified archer on the Rolling Rank list. And Jake is free to work for another company.

Personally, 99% of archers fund themselves for tournaments. And shoot quite a few to an expense that is not cheap. So if he wants to quit the sport because USA archery wont pay him any more, then bye. Join the club of the rest of us that have to work a regular job and afford shooting on the side.

Many of us do this sport because we love the sport. Not because we get insurance and a stipend.

You can be a stellar employee for 5 years, but if you start not showing up for work, the company will fire you. Doesnt matter your dedication previously.




Chris
 
#11 ·
In all reality, being a paid archer for USA Archery, can only be classified as a part time job and not a full one. There is no way that I can see from the numbers I have seen that an archer could make a living just off of what USA Archery/USOC pays. Jake, from listening to some Bow Junky podcasts, does a lot of other things so he could make a living off of archery. If this is the case USA Archery should make concessions for their archers so that they can make a living, just like any other part time job should do. If USAA wants to have full control over what their archers are doing then pay them a living wage and be done with it. Until then USAA needs to pull their head out of their rear ends and make concessions for their archers so that they can make a living as well as represent the country.

Heck our beloved country pays millions of people to do absolutely nothing for a living, and yet we can’t pay our elite athletes a living wage? Come on man!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#13 ·
We seem to have been able to field competitive Olympic and world championship archers since the 70s without paying them a full time living wage. Up until a few years ago, the athlete was required to be an amateur. Daryl Pace worked on radio towers with his father inlaw as his real day job during his Olympic runs.

Reo Wilde worked for UPS until a few years ago. And on, and on, and on.


The issue isnt the wage. The issue is not fulfilling the requirements for the benefits.

Chris
 
#14 ·
erose,

If I'm not mistaken, archers like Jake have the option to remain at the OTC which would take care of their room and board. Again, I'm not privy to all the details, but it seems to me that if someone were to train full time and live at the OTC, and be eligible for the stipends that Mike mentioned, that's a pretty good paying gig - especially for a young person without a college degree. Plus they get to travel all over the world.

It's when a full-time archer decides to leave the free room and board of the OTC that they are going to have to face the realities of life (mortgage/rent, food, utilities, etc.)

It's a business decision as much as a personal one.
 
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#15 ·
And after learning a few more details of this situation, I want to apologize for my hashtag comments above.

There was oversight in this instance, and accountability. So my apologies to Rod and the board.
 
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#16 ·
Look, if this is how we are going to do it, by fielding part time archers against full time archers, then our expectations need to drop significantly. We are just never going to be competitive except for that one or two archers who can get enough sponsorships to survive.

One can say well they can live free room and board at the OTC, and I know quite a few do; but in the case of Ellison and Kaminski and others as well, if you want to have a life i.e. get married, then the OTC is not an option I don't think. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if the OTC had family accommodations for their athletes. And seriously who would want to spend 4 to 10 years living in a dorm room, sharing bathrooms and showers?

Just my opinion, nothing more than that.
 
#17 ·
chrstphr said:
We seem to have been able to field competitive Olympic and world championship archers since the 70s without paying them a full time living wage. Up until a few years ago, the athlete was required to be an amateur. Daryl Pace worked on radio towers with his father inlaw as his real day job during his Olympic runs.

Reo Wilde worked for UPS until a few years ago. And on, and on, and on.


The issue isnt the wage. The issue is not fulfilling the requirements for the benefits.

Chris
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I disagree completely on this matter. The Olympics is no longer an amateur event, it just isn't. So to expect amateurs to be competitive against full time professionals is not reasonable. And to expect our archers to throw away any possibility of a personal life just so that they can live at the OTC isn't reasonable either in my opinion.

That being said, if USA Archery and the OTC is okay with this arrangement then I don't much care either, but we shouldn't be expecting our fair share of medals either, and when Ellison retires, we probably shouldn't expect any and be surprised when our country wins one.
 
#19 ·
erose said:
Look, if this is how we are going to do it, by fielding part time archers against full time archers, then our expectations need to drop significantly. We are just never going to be competitive except for that one or two archers who can get enough sponsorships to survive.

One can say well they can live free room and board at the OTC, and I know quite a few do; but in the case of Ellison and Kaminski and others as well, if you want to have a life i.e. get married, then the OTC is not an option I don't think. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if the OTC had family accommodations for their athletes. And seriously who would want to spend 4 to 10 years living in a dorm room, sharing bathrooms and showers?

Just my opinion, nothing more than that.
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erose, who says the full-time Korean archers have a life outside of archery? I mean, let's compare apples to apples okay? Park Sung Hyun -arguably the greatest of all time - retired from archery to start a family. She could have gone on to win many more competitions.
 
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#20 ·
but we shouldn't be expecting our fair share of medals either, and when Ellison retires, we probably shouldn't expect any and be surprised when our country wins one.
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It's amazing we ever won any before '08, ain't it? ;)

I guess we'll just have to see. As Vittorio has pointed out before, you don't need 100 world class archers to be competitive in this sport. Only a handful. And so long as we invest in the foundation and encourage those who demonstrate talent and commitment, we will continue to have at least a handful of world class archers. Now that we have a dedicated women's head coach, I think it's just a matter of a few years before both of our programs are routinely fielding competitive archers.

Looking back, I'm curious how many of our world class archers over the years had families while they were at the top of their game. Not many I can think of.
 
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