I was watching Levi Morgans video on how a bow naturally spins an arrow. My bow shoots a bare shaft and spins to the left. So i will be doing a left offset. My question is will it shoots any bare shaft with a left spin or will that change with different spine arrows. I assume all would be the same since it the bow causing the natural spin but thought i would check to be sure.
An arrows natural spin from bow
Xringindy
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I'm blown away by people saying just because x - pro does it doesn't mean it's for me. Funny most of the pro's that check these little details can out shoot any of us on any given day. If you were to receive "free" coaching from one of these pro's would you say "naw that's alright, I'll never shoot as good as you?" Yes it's just that silly.
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What's silly is even bringing up the pros. I'm going to use X release because a certain Pro does it. I'm going to use x Arrow because a certain Pro does it. I've got a more winning vo because X pro shoots this bow.
We're perfect scores ever shot before the trendy Arrow rotation issue?
We're perfect scores ever shot before the trendy Arrow rotation issue?
You posted in the 8-page topic from 2014 linked by Kevin .
As for other topics, FOC and 4-fletch are similar topics where opinion based on what someone says or does seems more important than actual personal testing
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Not sure here - soliderarcher, Brad? Maples Mills?
I believe nestly told of Levi using right hand fletched arrows when one of these same threads started up. Somewhere there was a picture of Randy Ulmer winning a fixed broadhead 100 yard event, all in the X ring and right hand fletched arrows.
I questioned Thacker's claim of tighter groups with the picture shown in the post. Early on I shot Field, practiced until I dropped, shot in every distance for the Field and Hunter round. I live in the country. Target range out the back door and 80 yard target range in side yard. When I thought of shooting Field those had shot Field for years said to use French tuning and I did and I still do. Never shot a Field round ever, but shot a Warm Up two weeks before the State Championship. Old time Field Shooter Don Wills guided/instructed me through. So I shot the State Championship and took Champion in Senior Adult Free Style with I think a 548. Almost got a "bath" for cleaning the 80 and 70 yard Walk Ups. 2006, I quit shooting spots of any kind and quit the NFAA. Came that Blazers weren't the vane to use for Field, so I had to find out.
Yes, it's a old picture, 2006, but the groups show how just well I shot back then. Hoyt UltraTec, 5 shots at 60 yards, 3 in the black dot. CXL 250 with CXL insert (28 grs) and 90 gr point - 267 fps. Yeah, not the arrow for Field, but I used them in Field with AAE 3.87" vanes. Yeah, FOC not said for Field either. Hadn't shoot longer distances in long, long, time, but gave it go when challenged, 2012 Ben Pearson MarXman - March, 3, 2016 - 60 yards, 4 shots, Muddy Outdoor Virtue HT3s with glue-in 80 gr points - 284.5 fps.
Anyway, I just couldn't swallow Thacker's good group as a improvement because of Clocking.
Rag Bag so old Jim can't remember the last time he used metal eyelets.
I believe nestly told of Levi using right hand fletched arrows when one of these same threads started up. Somewhere there was a picture of Randy Ulmer winning a fixed broadhead 100 yard event, all in the X ring and right hand fletched arrows.
I questioned Thacker's claim of tighter groups with the picture shown in the post. Early on I shot Field, practiced until I dropped, shot in every distance for the Field and Hunter round. I live in the country. Target range out the back door and 80 yard target range in side yard. When I thought of shooting Field those had shot Field for years said to use French tuning and I did and I still do. Never shot a Field round ever, but shot a Warm Up two weeks before the State Championship. Old time Field Shooter Don Wills guided/instructed me through. So I shot the State Championship and took Champion in Senior Adult Free Style with I think a 548. Almost got a "bath" for cleaning the 80 and 70 yard Walk Ups. 2006, I quit shooting spots of any kind and quit the NFAA. Came that Blazers weren't the vane to use for Field, so I had to find out.
Yes, it's a old picture, 2006, but the groups show how just well I shot back then. Hoyt UltraTec, 5 shots at 60 yards, 3 in the black dot. CXL 250 with CXL insert (28 grs) and 90 gr point - 267 fps. Yeah, not the arrow for Field, but I used them in Field with AAE 3.87" vanes. Yeah, FOC not said for Field either. Hadn't shoot longer distances in long, long, time, but gave it go when challenged, 2012 Ben Pearson MarXman - March, 3, 2016 - 60 yards, 4 shots, Muddy Outdoor Virtue HT3s with glue-in 80 gr points - 284.5 fps.
Anyway, I just couldn't swallow Thacker's good group as a improvement because of Clocking.
Rag Bag so old Jim can't remember the last time he used metal eyelets.
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Never have I seen "clocking" a subject so heated since the Lancaster Post of 2016." Still stands. Clocking has come up more than ever. And I'm still glad I didn't join AT before 2006. I don't do hardly any of the "you gottas" and shoot pretty good despite getting old. Yep, I still compete against the "pups" (younger than me) in local 3Ds. I'm waiting for the Pup to say he beat me. My line; "You gonna brag about beating a 70 year old man?"You posted in the 8-page topic from 2014 linked by Kevin .
As for other topics, FOC and 4-fletch are similar topics where opinion based on what someone says or does seems more important than actual personal testing
Yes, there is plenty of photographic and video evidence the majority of Levi's success happened before he was fletching the same direction as his bareshaft "clocks" and before he started recommending that others check their bareshaft rotation and fletch to match. Some people may think because I've pointed that out it means I either believe in "clocking" or don't believe in "clocking" and it doesn't mean either of those things.
As clearly as I know how to state it, fletching direction absolutely does change the way the arrow flies, and it can have a an affect on both POI and consistency, but the fletching direction the yields the best results is not determined by which direction the bareshaft naturally rotates, it's determined by fletching both ways and actually testing. For those that don't evaluate their results by measuring group size and/or by scoring compete multi-arrow rounds, don't bother, the results are likely too small to see if you're not actually recording distance from center of every arrow on a significant number of arrows.
So it doesn't matter if you're the type of person that scores every arrow, or the type of person that only glances at the target before pulling arrows and says to themselves "yep, that's good enough". Arrow flight and POI does change when the fletching is applied the opposite direction (or at a different angle) for both of the two types of people described above, the difference is the "good enough" guy will still have arrows impacting "good enough", and the guy measuring/scoring will say "Oh, I get it now"
https://www.nfaausa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019-Field-Nationals-Results-for-Web.pdf
Looking at the scores, and don't see how Donnie Thacker would have been able to shoot a clean animal round had he not shot the wrong target as his score is listed at 582. Guess that is what I get for listening to Greg Poole (BJ video).
Yeah, that's weird. Donnies audio is a bit unclear, but it sure seemed like he was indicating he would have hit all the dots if not for the shooting the wrong target. If he shot a dot on the 2nd arrow, that would gave been a 4 point reduction from a perfect 288 to 284, if he missed the dot on the 2nd arrow but still hit the high scoring area, that would have been a 5 point reduction (283) and if he missed the high scoring area on the 2nd arrow, that would have been a 7 point reduction from perfect (281). Basically there's no way to shoot a 282 if you only missed 1 dot, regardless of what the 2nd arrow scored. Based on his comments and Gregs, I'm inclined to believe his animal score is wrong. NFAA had my score wrong at last year Outdoor Nats, which put me in 8th, when I actually tied for the 2nd highest score in SMFS. It took a couple weeks for them to correct it in the published results and move me up to 3rd. The score I shot last year in M-burg would have won this year in Yankton... oh well, if you don't go, you cant win.... lol
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Got a chuckle when I read this because I remember my father, who shot competitively for Herters back in the very early sixties, experimenting with this. Don't remember his conclusions (I was quite young), but I'm sure it was something all competition archers were experimenting with to try to get the little edge that would help them win.
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I own south shore archery and tapp nation archery
I have been in business for 18 years and my shop is the shop that introduced indexing to the archery industry at the pro shop level
We have tested and sold nearly 1 million arrows and shafts over the last 18 years
Now with that said, bows do not add a natural spin to arrows, they influence them very slightly either RH or LH.
Since their is no force applied it does not matter how you orient the vanes. We tested this theory many years ago and found you gain nothing by finding which way your bow influences the arrow shaft.
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Bingo!!!!
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ive heard "center serving determines which way an arrow will rotate", "arrows only rotate a full turn around 20 or 30, and now", "my bareshafts spin either way" where can I find good resource materials for a subject that im really not concerned with but have a burning desire to know?
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My naturally (or servings) naturally spin my arrows left. My vanes spin arrow right. This is bareshaft results at 30 yards. Natural spin makes no discernible difference. Bow groups phenomenally well. I've had left helical and offset, right helical and offset, and straight. At 45 yards and under they group the same.
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lol....................now you've done it
Will you post your testing methods and data, if still available? ....or best recollection, if not.
The bow (bowstring) absolutely does impart spin on the arrow.
And I'm not even going to bother debating someone that thinks both of the arrows in the video below will have exactly the same POI downrange. Differences are admittedly very small, those satisfied to only hit the 10 ring and not the "X", need not bother, you won't appreciate the difference.
And I'm not even going to bother debating someone that thinks both of the arrows in the video below will have exactly the same POI downrange. Differences are admittedly very small, those satisfied to only hit the 10 ring and not the "X", need not bother, you won't appreciate the difference.
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So your saying Byron Ferguson could shoot aspirins out of the air better if he paid attention to arrow rotation? Better not tell that to him.
Dear All,
My son studying 6th std (11 years old). He has one year practice in archery under recurve bow category. Now we want to upgrade his bow at an international level.
Hence, I decided to buy a new bow ( as a complete set with all essential accessories) which is suitable for his age category (under 14) with the shooting range of 50 to 60 meters.
His draw length is 58 inches, actual height is 56 inches and body weight is 37 Kgs.
I request you all to kindly give your suggestions for buying a new bow with accessories along with detailed specifications(Riser, limbs, string, stabilizer, Arrows and sight size and brand)
I need a help from all
Thanks and Regards
KAMARAJ
My son studying 6th std (11 years old). He has one year practice in archery under recurve bow category. Now we want to upgrade his bow at an international level.
Hence, I decided to buy a new bow ( as a complete set with all essential accessories) which is suitable for his age category (under 14) with the shooting range of 50 to 60 meters.
His draw length is 58 inches, actual height is 56 inches and body weight is 37 Kgs.
I request you all to kindly give your suggestions for buying a new bow with accessories along with detailed specifications(Riser, limbs, string, stabilizer, Arrows and sight size and brand)
I need a help from all
Thanks and Regards
KAMARAJ
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12,940 Posts
Just curious to those who have fletched both directions and found a difference in POI, did you actually adjust your sight and compare group sizes or just come to the conclusion one was better or worse based solely on POI, because an arguement could be made that there is also a difference between straight and same direction fletching, between vanes with larger vs. smaller surface areas, between 3- and 4-fletch, and between plastics and feathers...
A more convincing experiment may be to radically detune a bow [i.e. severe nock tears], and high-speed video the different fletch orientations and see if there is a difference in how quickly each stabilizes in flight.
A more convincing experiment may be to radically detune a bow [i.e. severe nock tears], and high-speed video the different fletch orientations and see if there is a difference in how quickly each stabilizes in flight.
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