I recently built a V3 31 and put a front and back bar on it. I've noticed that I have a tendency to hold low on my targets. Not real low, but this morning before work I shot a quick 30 arrows and I'd say 20 of them were 1/2"-1" low. I know it's me because I find that I hold low and have to fight the pin back up to the target. I draw back with my arrow slightly above target, come set still above target, maybe 2-3", then try to settle down to the target. I'm thinking this may be more of a form thing that I just have to keep working, but was wondering if adding weight to my back bar or making adjustments to stabilizers would help this any. Thanks for any input.
Can I tune my stabilizers to keep me from always shooting low?
webygail13
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I recently built a V3 31 and put a front and back bar on it. I've noticed that I have a tendency to hold low on my targets. Not real low, but this morning before work I shot a quick 30 arrows and I'd say 20 of them were 1/2"-1" low. I know it's me because I find that I hold low and have to fight the pin back up to the target. I draw back with my arrow slightly above target, come set still above target, maybe 2-3", then try to settle down to the target. I'm thinking this may be more of a form thing that I just have to keep working, but was wondering if adding weight to my back bar or making adjustments to stabilizers would help this any. Thanks for any input.
I can not say that your stabilizers are the problem or not but I can say that I have worked on my stabilizer setup on my target bow and have found some setups of weight that cause me to shoot out the bottom.
For my target bow back when I set it up years ago I borrowed 55 ounces of weight from a couple buddies and I went to 50 yards and set up for some shooting. I took off 100% of the stab weights and just shot with blank stabs for a few minutes to get a feel for what nothing felt like and acted like. then I spent the next couple weeks putting on combinations of weight front and rear until I found 3 or 4 awesome setups. towards the end of the two weeks I had found the combination that really covered a lot of issues good and bad and was the best setup and I have shot with it for years.
I have 33 inch front with 22 ounces
I have a 15 inch rear with 33 ounces.
The second option was 9 oz up front and 21 oz in the rear.
Yes in that testing I had some combinations that caused me to dip bang out the bottom and some combos made me feel like shooting out the top and some caused me to feel like shooting out the bottom.
You can not just aske people what the magic combo really is, you simply need to get more than enough weight and shoot for a few weeks and find a good combo.
For my target bow back when I set it up years ago I borrowed 55 ounces of weight from a couple buddies and I went to 50 yards and set up for some shooting. I took off 100% of the stab weights and just shot with blank stabs for a few minutes to get a feel for what nothing felt like and acted like. then I spent the next couple weeks putting on combinations of weight front and rear until I found 3 or 4 awesome setups. towards the end of the two weeks I had found the combination that really covered a lot of issues good and bad and was the best setup and I have shot with it for years.
I have 33 inch front with 22 ounces
I have a 15 inch rear with 33 ounces.
The second option was 9 oz up front and 21 oz in the rear.
Yes in that testing I had some combinations that caused me to dip bang out the bottom and some combos made me feel like shooting out the top and some caused me to feel like shooting out the bottom.
You can not just aske people what the magic combo really is, you simply need to get more than enough weight and shoot for a few weeks and find a good combo.
Also, if you are struggling with shooting low and holding low it can totally be a collapsing shoulder.
A collapsing shoulder is where your front shoulder is high and it wants to pop out the top towards your chin. So if you are pulling into the wall with back tension to execute your shot this will totally drive your sight pin out the bottom of the spot you are wanting to hit and extra weight on stabilizers will just make it way worse.
Your front shoulder should be lower than your rear shoulder and there should be no pointy shoulder bump.
A collapsing shoulder is where your front shoulder is high and it wants to pop out the top towards your chin. So if you are pulling into the wall with back tension to execute your shot this will totally drive your sight pin out the bottom of the spot you are wanting to hit and extra weight on stabilizers will just make it way worse.
Your front shoulder should be lower than your rear shoulder and there should be no pointy shoulder bump.
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Thanks for the input. My first thought was that it was my form. I was just curious if playing with the stabilizers would help me in that area any of if it was strictly me breaking down somewhere. Sounds like it's probably all me!
Need to lighten the bow weight if you cant hold it up.
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First, you should figure out what the exact problem is. Try this.
Put a second aiming dot about a foot above the one you’re using. Aim at the lower one, and when you have the holding low problem, raise your bow up to aim at the higher dot.
If you physically can’t do it, then you might have a form issue.
But if you can, it means there’s no physical reason. If you can raise your bow a foot, you certainly can raise it 1/2 to 1”. That is an indication of a form of TP, and you’ll need to look for a mental solution.
Put a second aiming dot about a foot above the one you’re using. Aim at the lower one, and when you have the holding low problem, raise your bow up to aim at the higher dot.
If you physically can’t do it, then you might have a form issue.
But if you can, it means there’s no physical reason. If you can raise your bow a foot, you certainly can raise it 1/2 to 1”. That is an indication of a form of TP, and you’ll need to look for a mental solution.
Stash is about right,...it is a mental problem that needs to be fixed. we call, peaking or dropping your bow arm. the problem is that whatever you do to your follow through, actually starts before the shot breaks. your bow is already on it's way down just milliseconds before the arrow leaves, so the bow shoots low. you have to wpr on getting your follow through to stay at least level. most times, people train thier follow throughs to go a bit up after the shot breaks, to avoid dropping the bow ( because as i mentioned,...that drop starts before the shot breaks).
I will say that a collapsing front shoulder that is popping out the top can present itself as target panic and it is not target panic. If you are a shooter that is just standing there sitting in the valley and pulling the trigger then it probably is target panic.
But if you are executing a shot using some form of back tension where you are pulling into the wall then if your front shoulder is collapsing the sight pin can and will pull itself out the bottom and no matter how hard you try it will fight with you.
But if you are executing a shot using some form of back tension where you are pulling into the wall then if your front shoulder is collapsing the sight pin can and will pull itself out the bottom and no matter how hard you try it will fight with you.
Now here is another type of issue where your shooting form methods for firing are solid and you still have trouble dropping out the bottom.
"PAUSING"
If you are a shooter who is executing and you allow yourself to pause your execution or take your foot off the gas pedal when you see the sight pin do something you do not like then you are going to have issues. Why? Because with your foot on the gas you have good tension in the shot pulliing into the back wall but the moment you let off the gas you loose that tension and some of that tension was helping hold up the bow so the bow is going to want to drop out the bottom. Problem is that you were on the edge of firing your release so the moment you try to help the bow back up or start up the execution by putting your foot back on the pedal the bow instantly fires while your bow is still out the bottom.
So the simple fix to this problem is to never pause because you don't like the pin float, keep your foot on the gas and just execute the shot and never never never pause. If it is bad enough just let down. But never pause.
"PAUSING"
If you are a shooter who is executing and you allow yourself to pause your execution or take your foot off the gas pedal when you see the sight pin do something you do not like then you are going to have issues. Why? Because with your foot on the gas you have good tension in the shot pulliing into the back wall but the moment you let off the gas you loose that tension and some of that tension was helping hold up the bow so the bow is going to want to drop out the bottom. Problem is that you were on the edge of firing your release so the moment you try to help the bow back up or start up the execution by putting your foot back on the pedal the bow instantly fires while your bow is still out the bottom.
So the simple fix to this problem is to never pause because you don't like the pin float, keep your foot on the gas and just execute the shot and never never never pause. If it is bad enough just let down. But never pause.
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Add creeping, not holding to the wall.
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The OP says he has a tendency to “hold low” and has the “fight” to raise the sight. That’s different from dropping low during the execution of the shot.
Even if your form is suspect and you collapse, you should be able to raise your arm up. A collapsing shoulder or too much mass weight shouldn’t prevent someone from raising their bow an inch on an aiming dot, but TP sure will.
It’s always best to determine the actual cause of a problem before wasting time and money on a wrong solution.
Even if your form is suspect and you collapse, you should be able to raise your arm up. A collapsing shoulder or too much mass weight shouldn’t prevent someone from raising their bow an inch on an aiming dot, but TP sure will.
It’s always best to determine the actual cause of a problem before wasting time and money on a wrong solution.
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Try shooting with it no stabilizer. Then try just the back bar. I had the same issues while shooting it. It was far to top heavy for my liking, and found I shot it better with just the back bar, to balance the bow at rest. I how ever didn’t care for it, and have bought a different bow.
I am just touching base on a variety of causes for holding low, many times I find that a shooter has two or three things going on that are all adding up to a big mess. So by digging deep and asking the hard questions I can help them tackle each and every one of the things messing up their hold on the target.
Also threads like this one I will end up getting a few pm's from other shooters having similar issues that match up with one of the options I present and I can help them out also. Many times they never actually participate in the actual thread and only contact me in the pm.
Also threads like this one I will end up getting a few pm's from other shooters having similar issues that match up with one of the options I present and I can help them out also. Many times they never actually participate in the actual thread and only contact me in the pm.
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I'm shooting a silverback tension release. It's not that I can't get the bow up, it's more that I just find my pin wanting to hover below the target. I shoot alot of firearms and several of my pistols have a 6 oclock hold. I feel almost like I'm trying to hold my pin on a 6 oclock hold rather than right over the target. Does that make any sense?
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The problem with 6 o’clock hold is, how big is the aiming dot? If you’re aiming at 6 at the bottom of the spot on an indoor 5-ring at 20 yards and are sighted in to hit the middle, you’re going to hit 1 1/2” higher than your pin. What happens happens if you aim at 6 at the bottom of the dot of a field target at 30 yards, or a WA 80cm target at 50 meters? Or the 12 ring on a 3D moose compared to a 3D turkey? Or a live deer?
I’m not an experienced pistol shooter, but it seems to me the 6 o’clock hold could lead to the same issues, depending on how precise you need to be. Not everything you might want to shoot has the same diameter aiming dot.
You can compensate for personal peculiarities in any sport. You can play a decent round of golf with a mild slice if you know where to aim, but if you want to get really good, you get rid of the slice and hit straight, and learn how to fade or draw as required.
I’d strongly suggest you retrain yourself to put the pin in the middle. Keep it simple. Learn to hit what you’re aiming at, not just above what you’re aiming at.
I’m not an experienced pistol shooter, but it seems to me the 6 o’clock hold could lead to the same issues, depending on how precise you need to be. Not everything you might want to shoot has the same diameter aiming dot.
You can compensate for personal peculiarities in any sport. You can play a decent round of golf with a mild slice if you know where to aim, but if you want to get really good, you get rid of the slice and hit straight, and learn how to fade or draw as required.
I’d strongly suggest you retrain yourself to put the pin in the middle. Keep it simple. Learn to hit what you’re aiming at, not just above what you’re aiming at.
Makes total sense to me. With my target set up for 3d I had similar issue played with more weight out the back and it helped. In the spot world the old Mathews guys would tiller tune their hold by backing one limb out a little to get the pin float where they wanted.
I totally understand what you are talking about when you mention aiming at the 6 o'clock position. I call it "lolly popping"
In fact I found myself doing it just the other day at the range. We shot at 46 yards at some asa scoring rings that I could not see hardly at all and I found myself shooting about a half inch low for some reason just under the 12 ring and after it happened about 6 times I studied how I was aiming for a few shots and instantly saw myself lolly popping.
So then I just visualized my sight pin on the 12 ring and then executed some shots and I was hitting dead on again.
At the closer distances I couild see the 12 ring easily so I sit my pin on the 12 and didn't think twice about it but I guess my brain wanted to see what I was aiming at when at 46 so it moved my pin just below.
In fact I found myself doing it just the other day at the range. We shot at 46 yards at some asa scoring rings that I could not see hardly at all and I found myself shooting about a half inch low for some reason just under the 12 ring and after it happened about 6 times I studied how I was aiming for a few shots and instantly saw myself lolly popping.
So then I just visualized my sight pin on the 12 ring and then executed some shots and I was hitting dead on again.
At the closer distances I couild see the 12 ring easily so I sit my pin on the 12 and didn't think twice about it but I guess my brain wanted to see what I was aiming at when at 46 so it moved my pin just below.
I have shot entire seasons of indoor with my .19 3d pin setup many years and when I commit to this I will usually sight my bow in to the lolly pop style of aiming. I like to sit my pin directly on the inside edge of the vegas 10 ring and with a .19 pin for me the bottom of my pin in on the vegas 10 ring and the top of the pin is on the baby x so this allows me to stare directly at the baby x and not have to look at my pin.
that makes sense. it may be a case of your brain wants to see the center of the target and doesn't like that the pin gets in the way. i really notice that if i haven't been shooting in a while and when i start shooting my brain HAS to see the target, so i just make a mental effort to be comfortable with the pin hiding the center of the target. if you have done a lot of pistol shooting that may be engrained into your muscle memory, it will take conscious effort to be comfortable hiding the center.
some people sight in their bow to shoot exactly like you are talking about, they "lollipop" the target
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