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Hoyt Ventum 30 Terrible

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Discussion starter · #22 ·
Why would you begin shimming as a first step before moving your rest left/right according to a horizontal tear? Your an expert? I disagree with you. Moving your rest for a horizontal tear is before shimming. That’s what I did.
Next, scrutinize spine. Had you read, you would have noticed I was shooting 400 spine, OLD arrows, from my old bow. Hmmmmm: 400 spine arrows with a 28” draw on 65# bow? All charts show too soft. I was getting a left tear (once again hinting to a soft spine), so why wouldn’t you try a stiffer spine to be sure? This was suggested to me, and I agreed. When the recommended spine still was showing “left tear”, I figured try one more level (300 spine) just to be sure.
When the over-spined arrows still showed left-tear, then you move/adjust shims. This is where the complaint lies. Am I asking WAY too much for a FLAGSHIP (not run of the mill) bow to be cycled 15 times and actually shot 5 times before it leaves? I think not. Had they done that or inspected it before it left the factory they, and anyone in their right mind, would have said, “This will never do! Not with a Hoyt name on it.”
 
#23 ·
If your right in your own mind, thats what counts.

The variable your not considering with your “factory” tuned bow.... is individuals form, people shoot differently. One other thing to add to your fantasy, $$$$$..... just think what that added cost would be, if it even could be done.

Its all okay tho bro, some Indians had to get firewood!
 
#24 ·
Hoyt-Prime-Hoyt said:
Why would you begin shimming as a first step before moving your rest left/right according to a horizontal tear? Your an expert? I disagree with you. Moving your rest for a horizontal tear is before shimming. That’s what I did.
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Moving the rest is the last resort. First you set centershot. Then, with proper spined arrows for DL and DW, you tune the bow by adjusting cams. Only if you can't get it tuned with the cams do you then move the rest. The bow's cams are intended to be adjusted, whether through shims, cable turns, or whatever system is on the bow.
 
#25 ·
VeritasHunter said:
Moving the rest is the last resort. First you set centershot. Then, with proper spined arrows for DL and DW, you tune the bow by adjusting cams. Only if you can't get it tuned with the cams do you then move the rest. The bow's cams are intended to be adjusted, whether through shims, cable turns, or whatever system is on the bow.
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Yup - set the rest right down the middle, move cams to get it as close as possible then micro adjust get it really clean with the rest.
 
#26 ·
VeritasHunter said:
Moving the rest is the last resort. First you set centershot. Then, with proper spined arrows for DL and DW, you tune the bow by adjusting cams. Only if you can't get it tuned with the cams do you then move the rest. The bow's cams are intended to be adjusted, whether through shims, cable turns, or whatever system is on the bow.
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Absolutely correct!!

NC

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
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#27 ·
Hoyt-Prime-Hoyt said:
This is where the complaint lies. Am I asking WAY too much for a FLAGSHIP (not run of the mill) bow to be cycled 15 times and actually shot 5 times before it leaves? I think not. Had they done that or inspected it before it left the factory they, and anyone in their right mind, would have said, “This will never do! Not with a Hoyt name on it.”
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This is a false perspective on your part. The bow is designed to be adjusted to the shooter. I could have my RX-3 fully tuned to shoot bullet holes at 30 yards and then hand it to you and you might get massive left or right tears, or vertical tears. That's not because there is anything wrong with the bow, simply that how you anchor, how you grip and how you release are all different from me. This is why having some employee shoot the bow at the factory before shipping would be meaningless and a waste of time.

It is the dealers job to do the initial setup and tune of the bow to the purchaser. Setting centershot, checking timing, setting d-loop and peep and then paper tuning (with the purchaser shooting). Getting it tuned, at least very close to bullet holes is done by adjusting cams. Then final, micro-tuning is done with the rest. If the purchaser chooses to bypass the tuning process, that's on them. But the purchaser needs to understand that to properly tune a bow (other than Bowtechs with DeadLoc or Elites with SET) it will require a bow press and proper tools.

Again, Hoyt didn't fail here, either your dealer failed to tune the bow, or you chose to not have them tune the bow.
 
#28 ·
VeritasHunter said:
Moving the rest is the last resort. First you set centershot. Then, with proper spined arrows for DL and DW, you tune the bow by adjusting cams. Only if you can't get it tuned with the cams do you then move the rest. The bow's cams are intended to be adjusted, whether through shims, cable turns, or whatever system is on the bow.
Click to expand...


totally agree... this is unfortunately hard for people without a press/good shop nearby, but it is the absolute best way to set a bow up... Set rest to ideal center shot for that bow (each bow/cam system has an ideal center shot), shoot, adjust as needed if needed (shim cams, yolk tune if using yolks, etc)... For any very minor adjustments you can't get with shimming, move rest slightly if needed.

I have bought shim kits (lancaster) so I don't have to rely on factory shims...

I really like hybrid cams for the ability to yolk tune, but after working on several hoyts/mathews/etc that use shims, I've grown to like them more b/c once you get it set for the shooter, you don't have to worry about the yolk stretching or needing adjustments when putting new strings/cables on.

I understand most shops/archers won't go through the hassle to get each bow perfect and close enough counts for many... I'm just anal with stuff like this and want to know that if I miss or have a bad shot, it is my fault not my equipments.
 
#30 ·
I see a couple things going on over here. I get the frustration. You spend big money and you should get quality right off the bat.

Right now, and you can even see Hoyt is advertising for help,they are down workers. Government is still paying people to stay home. Small labor is still hard to hire. Thats a fact.

Next supply chains are not up to speed yet. All sorts of parts are not being made timely. You rail picatanny sights for example,even the intergrate rests. Adding new designs while trying to simply ramp up production of old designs is a super task. Not a good year to introduce new designs actually,but,Hoyt is trying to sell the newness sizzle.

This year I went to PSE for a EVO EVL 32 on account PSE been making binary a few years, and introduced a new Precision Buss Cable adjust,which acts like "yoke tuning". Hoyt didn't have anything likethat. Hoyt was basic Obsession type binary, change out shims. Not fun. But I learned a bit tinkering with the Obsession Evolution I bought 6 or so years ago. Granted one is a limb stop,one is a cable stop.

When I held and shot the Ventum 33 and RX5 I didn't look down the shelf of the riser. My PSE has a line down the center of the shelf to line things up. Why is this important ? Easy. Once the bow is in a vice and leveled out,you simply look to see how the string intersects with the center line. If the aimstring is too far away, you'll more than likely need a shim change. So I get the aimstring centered down the middle of the shelf. PSE did well incorporating this line down the shelf. I think Hoyt has a rubber pad on it's shelf ? Can't recall. But you can eyeball that aimstring close enough to get started.

Once you start off close, the rest is alot easier to tweak. My PSE has no to little cam lean @ rest or @ full draw. Full draw is tight as can be. She bulletholed in 2 shots, using a slight twist in the Precision buss cable yoke. There should be no reason the Hoyt is this hard to tune. It's a new system, but an old system from other bows. Draw board it, set the stops, set the let off mods and draw length. My tuner had mine shooting bulletholes in 45 minutes or less.

So I think Hoyt introducing the binary on a ramp up coming out of Covid was bad timing. Might have waited a bit longer,and released them later,and kept producing hybrid models until things got ramped up.

Next thing Hoyt is missing ??? John Dudley. Say what you want, but Dudley was on Youtube giving instruction vids on setting up all of Hoyt's bows. You run into trouble, you source a Youtube Dudley vid and compare notes. He was very good going over all the new Hoyts. Larger following than what Hoyt is producing now.

Hoyt will get this cam system all set and dialed in for everyone, but we are still in catch up mode work force wise nationally,and internationally. I'll be back to Hoyt again I'm sure too.
 
#31 ·
Lots of new hoyts for sale in the classifieds if anyone is looking! After noticing how badly twisted my ventum was I went to another local shop to have a look at other ventums, they had 3 on the shelf, none where even close to being as bad as mine. Mine wasn't even close to being acceptable, I would have been a complete idiot of I accepted this and kept the bow, so back in the box it went, mailed it back to my dealer, he was going to try to fix it, lol, the next day I had my money refunded!
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
I said it earlier, to those of advice; Thank You.
The original point seems to have been lost, but I’m not sure if it’s more Trolling or Flaming. God forbid I get that wrong.
I already gave an update, but seems appropriate to restate. The bow went back to the shop. They agreed they’ve never seen a Ventum with this much excessive top cam lean (quality control in my mind). Granted they’ve only sold about 15 of these so they’re going off those. They did have 5 in stock and I observed all of them. Like stated to me they all had a little perceptible cam lean (top and bottom) but nothing like mine.
They shot my bow (all three different spines) and got similar if not worse left tears. YES we all hold a bow different with differences in techniques, draw lengths etc. But by shooting the bow without torquing it, it showed in paper a severe problem. The bow was originally set up correctly. I returned it to center rest before I brought it back to the shop, which was easy to do because the rest has graduated marks. The shop ended up swapping the top shims. They then checked/tuned the entire bow; timing etc. The top cam is now no longer a crazy lean but a lean I think is considered normal. The bow still shoots left. Seems to me it requires more shimming. I’ve owned 4 bows before this one (Diamond, Nitrum, Rize and CT3). All four of those bows tuned with absolutely no problem, new out of the boxes. Maybe I was lucky and those were flukes. I still don’t feel as if I’ve asked too much for this bow to do the same.
 
#37 ·
Arroyo said:
It's pretty normal now for bows from all manufactures to require shimming. Even the Deadlock on Bowtech and SET on Elite will need to be adjusted if you want to maintain centershot. One thing Hoyt could do better is lubricate the axles, limb pockets, and pivot points. I had to completely take apart and grease my RX4 and Ventum 33 to get rid of the creaks and pops. There was little to no lubrication from limb pockets to cams.
Click to expand...
not to hi jack this but I am going to do the same......I have these random kink noises that makes me think my limb is cracked or something.....its very random but Im glad you brought this up.....thanks.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
EJP1234 said:
lol... bow specific shims...
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You always have something to say but never anything positive. Excuse me if I don’t understand the cam axle outside diameter. Am I to assume that every manufacturer uses the exact same Cam axle diameter and that all shims work on all bows? The shop had no extra shims on hand.
 
#40 ·
Hoyt-Prime-Hoyt said:
You always have something to say but never anything positive. Excuse me if I don’t understand the cam axle outside diameter. Am I to assume that every manufacturer uses the exact same Cam axle diameter and that all shims work on all bows? The shop had no extra shims on hand.
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Your totally missing this whole tuning the bow concept. Its funny im the one with nothing positive to say, yet look at your initial post, and thread title. Literally, every time you’ve posted on this thread it screams an obnoxiously high level of incompetence/ignorance... yet the constant drivel flows. Sure, Im poking fun of you, and the other twit that constantly bashes Hoyts new offerings... but its because its beyond obvious your shriveled mind cannot grasp something so simplistic, yet your comments continue to laminate your assumed level of knowledge.

News flash.... the bows smarter than you, and it sounds like you need a new shop!! However I assure you, Hoyt has done nothing “terrible” to you.
 
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