I’ve always tuned my bows with both limbs bottomed out and draw stops hitting at the same time. I’ve read about and known about tiller tuning and timing so one draw stop hits before the other. Has anyone done this to a Hoyt Stratos with HBT cams? Any info on what you found would be much appreciated
Hoyt Stratos Tuning For Aim
gymrat70
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I’ve always tuned my bows with both limbs bottomed out and draw stops hitting at the same time. I’ve read about and known about tiller tuning and timing so one draw stop hits before the other. Has anyone done this to a Hoyt Stratos with HBT cams? Any info on what you found would be much appreciated
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Stratos shoots best when its perfectly in time. If it's barely out of time, the shots are inconsistent.
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Tiller tuning is as old as bows with wheels. It's not really the same as timing cams slightly out of sync. Tiller tuning was managed by changing the distance of the string to the top/bottom limb where the limb meets the riser. It was a way to increase/decrease the amount of tension for weak/strong variations in a limb set. Limbs are much more consistent these days, but adjusting tiller can still solve a rare hi/lo nock entry with a bare shaft. In the 70's, when 2 wheelers were becoming popular, it was the only thing to adjust if nock location had no solution for nock hi/lo.
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So with consistent limbs you are essentially creating a situation where one set (either top or bottom limbs) are pulling slightly more than the other, correct? Originally tiller tuning was used to make the limbs pull evenly if I’m reading correctly. Also would you prefer advancing one cam or the other (timing), tiller tuning, or both to fix aiming issues like low pin/dipping pin?
If I were you, I would experiment. I would bet my wage that some, possibly many, Hoyt pros are running their cams slightly out of synch to alter the way the bow holds and the back wall feel. It's a binary cam. Nothing special about the HBT and whether we're talking Mathews, Bowtech, or PSE, lots and lots of pros mess with cam synch.
Tiller tuning something that perhaps fewer archers worry about these days, but some do still think it can make a real difference. Paige Pearce is an advocate, for example.
I run a 40 SVX, which is a completely different beast, but on that bow I definitely prefer the way the bow holds with the bottom stop hitting a little earlier than the top. Paige is running her Reckoning Gen 2 with the bottom cam about 1.5 twists ahead of the top.
I don't think there are fixed rules for a given model. I think it largely comes down to your particular bow and your form. What the pair of you need to jive is likely to be very different to what I need. Just keep notes and make one change at a time.
Tiller tuning something that perhaps fewer archers worry about these days, but some do still think it can make a real difference. Paige Pearce is an advocate, for example.
I run a 40 SVX, which is a completely different beast, but on that bow I definitely prefer the way the bow holds with the bottom stop hitting a little earlier than the top. Paige is running her Reckoning Gen 2 with the bottom cam about 1.5 twists ahead of the top.
I don't think there are fixed rules for a given model. I think it largely comes down to your particular bow and your form. What the pair of you need to jive is likely to be very different to what I need. Just keep notes and make one change at a time.
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It worked better on hoyts cam and a half setups it was always top before bottom for mine. But I found alot was in my head, was just good days and bad days. The idea was changing the hold based on d-loop hight on the string. Sense those days I just time and tiller evenly and take more time on balance with weights. If I was holding low I'd take 1 once of the front at a time, holding high take it of the back. If bow was to jumpy and 1 to back and front if bow was balanced. Always did after sight torque tune because the sight weight forward or back will then effect the balance. I used tiller tune to micro the dl. But I'm always up for the experiment, so good luck.
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I think the biggest problem guys have when shooting a hoyt target bow is being a static shooter. The low let offs on a hoyt with their cams no valley requires alot of back wall tension to be consistent. So once you learn how to ride that horse they are hole makers, and hard to ever shoot anything else. Having a solid push pull with alot of back tension to lock it there is important. If your static they feel heavy to balance, and you will be shaky up front. while your release hand tends to pull away from your face on the long hold. Static on a hoyt causes drive by shots and in consistent follow through. When you learn to Bury the cam into the cables they become light and when arrow is tuned you will feel like you can't miss. But on a bad day they will shout where you suck in your form and give you the worst arrow consistency shot to shot. But it's only a reflection of what your doing.
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That’s interesting. One of the reasons I bought this bow is for the very reasons you mentioned above. There was a fellow at our tournament this past weekend shooting a Stratos and he was ready to sell. I told my friend basically what you just said. I like the bow for the reason people hate it. It has no tolerance for weak shots and I found years ago without good back tension and strong push I can’t shoot any bow good.
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That’s kinda what I was thinking, just wondering if there was a consensus on what others are finding that works and narrow down my work a bit. Others have suggested playing with stab weights but I have changed my thinking on this. To me changing weight config is putting on the finishing touches not fixing issues if that makes sense.
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Simple answer, yes.
I have resorted to tweaking the cams to cure a hi/lo nock entry in the past.
If you have a draw rig, and are setting the timing, there's a short interval when both cams appear to be "spot on". Usually the amount of advance top or bottom needed, is very small. Ideally, that's the range it's best to work in. Doesn't always happen that way. When you have a gap at the stop, you're really doing the same thing as tiller tuning. One cam stops, and when the other cam hit's the stops, (the wall), you've applied more force to the limb to get a balance.
Currently I have 10 bows in my collection, and none of them require tricks to get good bare shaft flight. I think it's because limb sets are getting better.
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I would look more into draw length issues for the aiming issues you are having before I started to put the bow out of wack
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Actually spent nearly a week on DL going back and forth before settling where I am.
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Small tweaks, a grip change or even a twist of the string or cable can make all the difference. Sometimes it can be 1/16-1/8” that changes what you need to get that pin float right. Even try micro changes in D loop length
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I changed d-loop as well. Pin float is awesome at this point. The issue I’m trying to nail down now is pin holding slightly low. Just gathering info. Advanced the bottom cam and this is making a big difference. I also went back and forth on grip angles as well.
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Paige Pearce just published an interesting video on “tuning the bow for aiming”. Available on her FB page and YouTube. You certainly can’t arugue with her results
If you're holding low and can't get the pin I the middle, it's a mental issue. If you can get the pin in the middle, but it bobs low it's most likely a form flaw.
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Update - Finally got some uninterrupted time to work on this and here’s what I found. Before I explain I will say you need to do your own experimenting. I’m putting this out there merely as a something you can try type thing, not as an absolute fix. Having said that, I reduced the poundage from 60 to 57 lbs. This gave me a better feeling holding weight. Still had a slight dip bang so I advanced the bottom cam 1 full twist which is a lot, maybe 1/16”, which to me is a lot. Made a difference but not there yet. I then began to tighten the bottom limb bolt in roughly 8 degree increments. First adjustment saw improvement, second increment boom! I found it. It appears to me in my case it boiled down to finding the right amount to advance the bottom cam which is slightly ahead now. I may adjust tiller slightly this week as I shoot but it looks like I’m headed in the right direction
Tillering a bow goes back to when bows were made. Tillering a bow is for flight and hold characteristics. Early compound bows it was used to tame nock swoop because of the handle position the top limb gave out less string because of the handle being in the center of the bow. A common tillering setting was 1/4" out on top much like a recurve with a split finger hold. As manufacturers have experimented to try to tame the nock travel they have moved the arrow and handle location to help with the nock travel and also give good holding sight picture. Older bows always had the handle in the center of the bow to make them hold on target better but that sacrificed the tune of the nock travel. Manufactures and engineers tried to answer the nock travel issues with other cam designs and started experimenting with handle location to help with the hold. Tillering adjust the point you pull the string from in relation to the limbs at rest and the handle position of the bow . It is more affective on bows with steeper limb angles like the Hoyt Stratos and is an effective way to fine tune the hold of a bow on target .
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Good post. Tillering is something I considered a thing of the past and basically have set every single bow I own to be in time. I did a search on pin floating low and was surprised to see how many folks were advancing cams and tillering. I read a Q&A session Paige Pierce did on her FB page and she stated she has never shot a bow in time in her life. She explained her process for setting up a new bow and used a term I never heard before, aim tuning. She basically sets her bow up to aim the best it can then she goes to paper, bareshaft, etc. This makes perfect sense and I will be setting all of my bows up this way from now on.
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