People that have Bows with Picatinny Rail Mounting System and Integrate Mounting System do these help with getting rid of the side weight with the typical sight and rest mounting systems? In my thinking I think it would and would also help get rid of having to have a side bar stabilizer to help balance the bow. Looking for anyones thoughts that have these systems.
Bows with Picatinny Rail Mounting System and Integrate Mounting System ?
gun278
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People that have Bows with Picatinny Rail Mounting System and Integrate Mounting System do these help with getting rid of the side weight with the typical sight and rest mounting systems? In my thinking I think it would and would also help get rid of having to have a side bar stabilizer to help balance the bow. Looking for anyones thoughts that have these systems.
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Yes it does help but it really isn't drastically noticeable until you get the quiver full of arrows loaded up in a quiver system that sits at the riser close enough that a traditional sight or rest would not clear. For example I played with a v3x with a 5 pin hogg father with the integrate qad. I noticed very little difference when I had the sight mounted to the side vs in the bridge lock. But once I mounted the mathews quiver full of 470 grain arrows, it was drastically noticeable how better balanced it was than with a tightspot, and I am a HUGE fan of the tightspots. The biggest difference it the quiver weight was pretty centered in the riser vs. hanging off the back making the bow more back heavy. The tightspot does fit just as close, but it puts the weight further back on the bow than the mathews quiver does. Now is it worth all the extra money for all the components? Depends on the person. But I will say the full setup was balanced very nicely when all the components where used and there was a noticeable difference in feel. I still would use a sidebar as it has more benefits than just countering the sight, quiver, and rest weight on the bow.
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I think there is a marginal difference (bigger benefit is for manufacturers to sell you more overpriced accessories frankly). In my experience it doesn’t remove the need for a back bar but may affect the positioning of the bar and/or amount of weight you have to add to it.
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3,852 Posts
Here's my take... Yes, it absolutely make a difference in how the weight is distributed on the bow and I believe it's for the better. Now, how that change is perceived will vary from shooter to shooter.
When it comes to how changes by bow manufacturers are perceived by the consumer, I believe the consumer is a victim of their own expectations. What I mean by that is the consumers hear there are changes and the manufacturers' words on the reasoning and added benefits behind the changes fuel the expectations of the consumer. The consumer immediately thinks it's going to be some earth shattering game changer. Don't get me wrong, sometimes those changes are exactly that but for the most part, those changes are going to result in incremental changes. Bows and their technologies have come so far that big wholesale changes to their platforms are a thing of the past. At first, newer technology was providing very noticeable night and day differences but now the differences are so finite and subtle and incremental that you need micrometers and scientific testing equipment to truly notice a lot of the benefits/improvements from the changes being made. Obviously, all of the manufacturers have and use this type of equipment in their design and testing processes so to them, every change is very noticeable and night and day but the average archery shop and consumer doesn't have access to and/or use this testing equipment so the changes aren't as noticeable. What that leads to are posts on places like AT from people saying things like, "it's a gimmick" or "the changes weren't changes at all" or "the changes aren't worth the money" or event things like "no changes were made at all by Insert bow manufacturer name here, is just trying to sell you on their bow."
They say "perception is reality." Well, we (the consumer) need to temper our expectations and that will get our perception more inline with the reality of the situation.
When it comes to how changes by bow manufacturers are perceived by the consumer, I believe the consumer is a victim of their own expectations. What I mean by that is the consumers hear there are changes and the manufacturers' words on the reasoning and added benefits behind the changes fuel the expectations of the consumer. The consumer immediately thinks it's going to be some earth shattering game changer. Don't get me wrong, sometimes those changes are exactly that but for the most part, those changes are going to result in incremental changes. Bows and their technologies have come so far that big wholesale changes to their platforms are a thing of the past. At first, newer technology was providing very noticeable night and day differences but now the differences are so finite and subtle and incremental that you need micrometers and scientific testing equipment to truly notice a lot of the benefits/improvements from the changes being made. Obviously, all of the manufacturers have and use this type of equipment in their design and testing processes so to them, every change is very noticeable and night and day but the average archery shop and consumer doesn't have access to and/or use this testing equipment so the changes aren't as noticeable. What that leads to are posts on places like AT from people saying things like, "it's a gimmick" or "the changes weren't changes at all" or "the changes aren't worth the money" or event things like "no changes were made at all by Insert bow manufacturer name here, is just trying to sell you on their bow."
They say "perception is reality." Well, we (the consumer) need to temper our expectations and that will get our perception more inline with the reality of the situation.
I agree with 100% for a change 😆.
Save your minor "advancements" with another 9 and maybe it will amount to an actual beneficial selling points. This one alone is so minimal, it is in my eyes as more of a scam than a true benefit to any shooter.
If every bow weighed 3 lbs, then it may be a positive advancement. With varying bow weights and the individuals stab loading for their feel it is a moot point in the real world.
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1,315 Posts
If you buy a new bow that has it, great. If you are buying a new bow to get it, you are pissing away cash. Any balance difference is slim to none. Quiver/arrow weight and location have a much bigger impact on overall balance. I just set up a bow using a TreeLimb riser mount and the head of the quiver under-slung. Perfect balance and no need for any stab other than the factory chubby mounted at the bottom limb pocket. Bow hangs perfectly in hand.
The issue with companies doing that, is everyone complains that “they’re not smart enough to release something new this year” or “oh look they’re recycling last years bow” or “HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO SURVIVE USING THE SAME BOW FOR MORE THAN ONE SEASON?!!”
They can’t win. We all wait for the new release to drop so we can complain every year and sell last years bow to buy the new one.
We have to pick between trickled out incremental changes, or wait a few years for something meaningful.
They all know this, which is why they make little changes every year.
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1,246 Posts
If your planning on leaving a full quiver on the bow it will make a significant difference. If you're not going to have a full quiver on the bow is not important
Look at it this way, the invention of the back bar was huge for the industry and guys swear by angle and ounces of weight differences, makes them better shooters. The integrated sight and everything else is doing the exact same thing, moving weight to the center for better balance. As a hunter it allows me to use less weight for balancing, in fact with the integrated stab I don't use a back bar, I'm great with the 12" stab and it adjusted to roughly 6" out front. This gives me a little back weight. I'm not saying it's as good as a back bar, but it does make a little (enough) difference for me to lessen pin float good enough for a hunting rig. I also don't shoot with quiver on, unless out west. Weight is my primary concern, so I eliminate side attachments and a knuckle. Necessary nope, just an added benefit....
I tried the inline accessories. It didn’t make much of a difference. What did help was that offset stabilizer mount that Mathews makes. Great little product to help balance your bow with a quiver on. That $20 helps a lot more than hundreds of dollars for the inline rest and sight.
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3,594 Posts
I think its well said above, if you're going to run a bow quiver and shoot with it on, it can make a substantial difference as the Mathews and Hoyt low profile quivers from what I know cannot be matched in how close they ride to the bow. To have clearance for the quiver sitting that tight you have to lower the profile of the rest and sight in some cases. Everyone laughed at "Its more than a bow"... but I think that's the future of bowhunting rigs. Mathews made this leap first IMO with SAS, their sling system, bridgelock, quiver, etc. Hoyt is now doing the same, and Prime is starting down that path as well. I'd like to see Picatinny become a standard option, for one selfish reason. Easy sight swaps. I can attach multiple brands of sights for different arrows/situations without taking the dovetail plate off my bow. That combined with its an open standard I think makes it a nice option. I think in the end the integrate rail system will become standard. This year we saw VT buy in, and I'm sure the trend will continue. I bought a Hoyt this year, not because it had that stuff (I just wanted the oomph of the Z1S), but since it has it, I'm going all in and accessorizing it with inline stuff. It is something different, I like to tinker, and heck it may even be better for some stuff.
When you get into the top end of performance, there’s only so much you can do, but 1% better is still 1% better.
Some people don’t notice, and some people do.
can someone explain or better yet show a photo what quiver under slung means?
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Bowtech SR350, Hoyt RX9U, Black Widow PCH, Tim Wells Blow Gun, my bare hands.
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1,376 Posts
Considerably better on my Bowtech CP28 and Hoyt RX7U. Both bows balance better, and I do not use any stabs but for the stubby one that comes on the Hoyt and two of the Bowtech counter weights on the lower left half of the riser. Rock solid mounting, less weight.
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3,594 Posts
Yes. Your mileage may vary. The biggest benefit is for those running bow quivers you can suck right down to the riser. The integrate system is also nice for bows with a single rest mounting hole. I like my Picatinny sight as it’s removable like a dovetail but slimmer profile.
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