Here's the pic you requested yesterday directly across from me that you said was needed to help me out with my DL. As I look at the pic I see a few other things, but I'll let you point them out. Thanks for your help I really appreciate it.:thumbs_up Anyone else that has any opinions or helpful pointers would also be appreciated. Thanks again guys. This is the close up one first...
Draw length pic for Nuts and Bolts
FowlHabit
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Here's the pic you requested yesterday directly across from me that you said was needed to help me out with my DL. As I look at the pic I see a few other things, but I'll let you point them out. Thanks for your help I really appreciate it.:thumbs_up Anyone else that has any opinions or helpful pointers would also be appreciated. Thanks again guys. This is the close up one first...
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I won't get into the details sice Lug Nut will be as thorough as ever. But, 2 things that strike me the most:
- Rotate the relese hand/arm inside your face - there's too much twist there, even your trigger shows that. It should look something like this:
![Image]()
- whole your posture kinda says that you're fighting with the bow - maybe you're pulling too much?
- Rotate the relese hand/arm inside your face - there's too much twist there, even your trigger shows that. It should look something like this:
- whole your posture kinda says that you're fighting with the bow - maybe you're pulling too much?
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3,018 Posts
Pulling too much weight?
My brother told me a good test, at least for hunting draw weight...
Sit in a chair, raise your feet off the ground and hold them there while you draw. If you can draw and hold without grunting or shaking, then you are probably strong enough for that weight...
try it, you might be surprised...
Also, sit without moving for 3 hours in near zero weather, then have a P&Y world record buck come under your stand... if you can draw back without hyperventillating, maybe your draw weight is ok...
of if Tracy Stykes walked by dressed like her pictures in the Maxim contest, could you draw your bow and maintain controlled breathing???
that might be a good test too...
thenson
My brother told me a good test, at least for hunting draw weight...
Sit in a chair, raise your feet off the ground and hold them there while you draw. If you can draw and hold without grunting or shaking, then you are probably strong enough for that weight...
try it, you might be surprised...
Also, sit without moving for 3 hours in near zero weather, then have a P&Y world record buck come under your stand... if you can draw back without hyperventillating, maybe your draw weight is ok...
of if Tracy Stykes walked by dressed like her pictures in the Maxim contest, could you draw your bow and maintain controlled breathing???
that might be a good test too...
thenson
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1,197 Posts
Let go of your release. I promise its not going to go anywhere if you let go of it. Holding the release can cause string torque.If you let go of the release and then make a hook with your index fingerand try to pull the bow in two pieces with your back muscles that will eliminate that. And its a way of using back tension to set your relase off.
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15,838 Posts
I'm not Nuts and Bolts, and I usually don't answer threads like this, but for a fellow lefty, I will.
First, I would get a wrist strap on that bow as soon as possible. Then I would open your bow hand, grip the bow by wrap you thumb and index finger together only. Most of the grip pressure should be at the base of your thumb.
The bow is definitely too long for you. Leaning back a little on the left side is one sign. You probably have more pressure on the left foot than the right. You left wrist is bent up and right now, I doubt, if you can rotate it properly. It would be much better if it was straighter. Your anchor point seems OK I usually have mine much lower, but I don't do short bows.
Here is what I would suggest. Get a 28" and a 27.5" set of modules for the bow. The dealer will probably let you return which ones you don't like. If he isn't close, have him mail them. Rotate your bow hand a little so there is more pressure at the base of your thumb. Open your stance by moving your right foot further to the right. I would learn to shoot with your feet closer together, if you plan to shoot out of a tree stand. I really am an advocate of a natural position, it is the easiest repeated.
Try both modules for a while. After you get a little accustomed to the new modules. Draw the bow with you eyes closed. When you open them, if you are aimed to the left, open your stance more. If you are aimed at the right, close it. This will get you in a natural alignment.
I am not real good at this, so Nuts & Bolts may have some additional comments or tell me, I am all wet.
First, I would get a wrist strap on that bow as soon as possible. Then I would open your bow hand, grip the bow by wrap you thumb and index finger together only. Most of the grip pressure should be at the base of your thumb.
The bow is definitely too long for you. Leaning back a little on the left side is one sign. You probably have more pressure on the left foot than the right. You left wrist is bent up and right now, I doubt, if you can rotate it properly. It would be much better if it was straighter. Your anchor point seems OK I usually have mine much lower, but I don't do short bows.
Here is what I would suggest. Get a 28" and a 27.5" set of modules for the bow. The dealer will probably let you return which ones you don't like. If he isn't close, have him mail them. Rotate your bow hand a little so there is more pressure at the base of your thumb. Open your stance by moving your right foot further to the right. I would learn to shoot with your feet closer together, if you plan to shoot out of a tree stand. I really am an advocate of a natural position, it is the easiest repeated.
Try both modules for a while. After you get a little accustomed to the new modules. Draw the bow with you eyes closed. When you open them, if you are aimed to the left, open your stance more. If you are aimed at the right, close it. This will get you in a natural alignment.
I am not real good at this, so Nuts & Bolts may have some additional comments or tell me, I am all wet.
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FowlHabit...need to tuck in the shirt...hides too much detail
You need to tuck in the shirt.
We all need to need the alignment of the body
as in the feet
with respect to the knees
with respect to the hips
with respect to the curvature of the spine (leaning or not).
When I can see the full body picture (shirt tucked in)
then I can confirm what I am seeing.
Here is what I see:
Your neck is tense...
Your head is leaning backwards away from the bow...
Your release arm is aiming up hill...(instead of in line with the arrow)...
Your release wrist is rotated (knuckles against the face instead of horizontal)
Your feet are too far apart, implying the draw weight is too high...
(as others have said, can you sit in a chair, feet off the ground and draw the bow? if not, then drop the draw weight until you can)
What is the distance from the end of the nock groove to the the curved part of the grip right under the arrow rest, when you are at full draw? I would like to know the pivot point to end of nock groove distance. You can have a friend measure this when you are at full draw.
![Image]()
Then another experiment.
Stand against a wall with both shoulders touching the wall.
Also have your bow arm touching the wall.
Hold your bow hand at shoulder height.
Now have a friend measure the distance from the corner of your mouth
to the back side of your bow hand thumb sticking straight up (side of the thumb away from you).
What is this measurement?
Another way to do this is to hold a ruler in your bow hand
straight up, vertical. Now, turn your head like you were going
to shoot an arrow right through the ruler.
Keep both shoulders against the wall.
Keep the bow arm against the wall.
Keep the ruler vertical.
Now, have that friend measure the distance from the close edge of the ruler
to the corner of your mouth.
This is the measurement I am looking for.
![Image]()
FowlHabit:FowlHabit said:
You need to tuck in the shirt.
We all need to need the alignment of the body
as in the feet
with respect to the knees
with respect to the hips
with respect to the curvature of the spine (leaning or not).
When I can see the full body picture (shirt tucked in)
then I can confirm what I am seeing.
Here is what I see:
Your neck is tense...
Your head is leaning backwards away from the bow...
Your release arm is aiming up hill...(instead of in line with the arrow)...
Your release wrist is rotated (knuckles against the face instead of horizontal)
Your feet are too far apart, implying the draw weight is too high...
(as others have said, can you sit in a chair, feet off the ground and draw the bow? if not, then drop the draw weight until you can)
What is the distance from the end of the nock groove to the the curved part of the grip right under the arrow rest, when you are at full draw? I would like to know the pivot point to end of nock groove distance. You can have a friend measure this when you are at full draw.
Then another experiment.
Stand against a wall with both shoulders touching the wall.
Also have your bow arm touching the wall.
Hold your bow hand at shoulder height.
Now have a friend measure the distance from the corner of your mouth
to the back side of your bow hand thumb sticking straight up (side of the thumb away from you).
What is this measurement?
Another way to do this is to hold a ruler in your bow hand
straight up, vertical. Now, turn your head like you were going
to shoot an arrow right through the ruler.
Keep both shoulders against the wall.
Keep the bow arm against the wall.
Keep the ruler vertical.
Now, have that friend measure the distance from the close edge of the ruler
to the corner of your mouth.
This is the measurement I am looking for.
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3,196 Posts
I never contribute to "form" questions and threads much as others here are far more qualified. Besides, the golfer in me makes constant adjustments in form, release, follow through too often to "tell" someone what's wrong with their form. But I'm gathering you're new to archery by the content of your posts? The Tribute is a sweet bow, but with a 30"-31" ATA even some very experienced archers (15 yrs +) have trouble time to time shooting a smaller ATA as consistently as the longer ones. A suggestion might be to see if you can get a longer ATA bow to get your form & shooting down first for a few weeks and maybe then revert to your Tribute.
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59 Posts
Nuts and Bolts
I read through your list of things you see wrong with my form and I'm thinking it's related to the No-Peep I have on my set up.
"Here is what I see:"
Your neck is tense...
I'm leaning my neck into the right position to get my No-Peep in line.
Your head is leaning backwards away from the bow...
Again, I'm leaning my neck into the right position to get my No-Peep in line.
Your release arm is aiming up hill...(instead of in line with the arrow)...
I'm not sure how to correct this.
Your release wrist is rotated (knuckles against the face instead of horizontal)
I need to change my anchor point then?
Your feet are too far apart, implying the draw weight is too high...
I'm used to shooting a shotgun and that's how I stand. What is the proper foot placement?
(as others have said, can you sit in a chair, feet off the ground and draw the bow? if not, then drop the draw weight until you can)
I shot off a dozen arrows and it was just as easy as standing up.
I am thinking of taking my bow to the local pro-shop to install a peep sight. Does this sound like a good idea? If so, any parting suggestions on what to get or how it should be installed? I'm going to try to get the measurements you asked for, but I probably won't get them posted until tomarrow. Thanks for your help.:thumb:
I read through your list of things you see wrong with my form and I'm thinking it's related to the No-Peep I have on my set up.
"Here is what I see:"
Your neck is tense...
I'm leaning my neck into the right position to get my No-Peep in line.
Your head is leaning backwards away from the bow...
Again, I'm leaning my neck into the right position to get my No-Peep in line.
Your release arm is aiming up hill...(instead of in line with the arrow)...
I'm not sure how to correct this.
Your release wrist is rotated (knuckles against the face instead of horizontal)
I need to change my anchor point then?
Your feet are too far apart, implying the draw weight is too high...
I'm used to shooting a shotgun and that's how I stand. What is the proper foot placement?
(as others have said, can you sit in a chair, feet off the ground and draw the bow? if not, then drop the draw weight until you can)
I shot off a dozen arrows and it was just as easy as standing up.
I am thinking of taking my bow to the local pro-shop to install a peep sight. Does this sound like a good idea? If so, any parting suggestions on what to get or how it should be installed? I'm going to try to get the measurements you asked for, but I probably won't get them posted until tomarrow. Thanks for your help.:thumb:
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59 Posts
Thanks for everybodys help with this.
Dado
"I won't get into the details sice Lug Nut will be as thorough as ever. But, 2 things that strike me the most:
- Rotate the relese hand/arm inside your face - there's too much twist there, even your trigger shows that. It should look something like this:"
I was told by one of the pro shop people to put my index finger top knuckle into my jaw like that. I'm going to have to work on a new anchor point I guess.
"- whole your posture kinda says that you're fighting with the bow - maybe you're pulling too much?"
I can pull it comfortably in a chair.
thenson
"My brother told me a good test, at least for hunting draw weight...Sit in a chair, raise your feet off the ground and hold them there while you draw. If you can draw and hold without grunting or shaking, then you are probably strong enough for that weight...try it, you might be surprised..."
I just shot of a dozen with no problems.
Also, sit without moving for 3 hours in near zero weather, then have a P&Y world record buck come under your stand... if you can draw back without hyperventillating, maybe your draw weight is ok...of if Tracy Stykes walked by dressed like her pictures in the Maxim contest, could you draw your bow and maintain controlled breathing??? that might be a good test too..."
Please let me know when you can arrange this for me
Romeo 212000
"Let go of your release. I promise its not going to go anywhere if you let go of it. Holding the release can cause string torque.If you let go of the release and then make a hook with your index fingerand try to pull the bow in two pieces with your back muscles that will eliminate that. And its a way of using back tension to set your relase off."
Sorry I'm a newbie. I'm not sure of what you're trying to explain to me. I'm using a Tru-Fire-the Judge release(dual caliper with a swivel). Are you suggesting I try a new release?
Deezlin
"First, I would get a wrist strap on that bow as soon as possible."
I'll be doing that ASAP.
As far as changing my anchor point and stance, I'm working on that.
Epineferine
I"m going to have to make due with what I've got now.
Dado
"I won't get into the details sice Lug Nut will be as thorough as ever. But, 2 things that strike me the most:
- Rotate the relese hand/arm inside your face - there's too much twist there, even your trigger shows that. It should look something like this:"
I was told by one of the pro shop people to put my index finger top knuckle into my jaw like that. I'm going to have to work on a new anchor point I guess.
"- whole your posture kinda says that you're fighting with the bow - maybe you're pulling too much?"
I can pull it comfortably in a chair.
thenson
"My brother told me a good test, at least for hunting draw weight...Sit in a chair, raise your feet off the ground and hold them there while you draw. If you can draw and hold without grunting or shaking, then you are probably strong enough for that weight...try it, you might be surprised..."
I just shot of a dozen with no problems.
Also, sit without moving for 3 hours in near zero weather, then have a P&Y world record buck come under your stand... if you can draw back without hyperventillating, maybe your draw weight is ok...of if Tracy Stykes walked by dressed like her pictures in the Maxim contest, could you draw your bow and maintain controlled breathing??? that might be a good test too..."
Please let me know when you can arrange this for me
Romeo 212000
"Let go of your release. I promise its not going to go anywhere if you let go of it. Holding the release can cause string torque.If you let go of the release and then make a hook with your index fingerand try to pull the bow in two pieces with your back muscles that will eliminate that. And its a way of using back tension to set your relase off."
Sorry I'm a newbie. I'm not sure of what you're trying to explain to me. I'm using a Tru-Fire-the Judge release(dual caliper with a swivel). Are you suggesting I try a new release?
Deezlin
"First, I would get a wrist strap on that bow as soon as possible."
I'll be doing that ASAP.
As far as changing my anchor point and stance, I'm working on that.
Epineferine
I"m going to have to make due with what I've got now.
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6,062 Posts
what romeo was saying is that once you get to full draw, have your middle, ring, and pinky fingers let go of the "post" of the release. They should just dangle comfortably while the weight is held by the strap and caliper. You then only curl your index finger around the trigger and then do the deed, pulling with your back muscles.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
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59 Posts
Nuts and Bolts
I also have the measurements you asked for previously.
"What is the distance from the end of the nock groove to the the curved part of the grip right under the arrow rest, when you are at full draw? I would like to know the pivot point to end of nock groove distance. You can have a friend measure this when you are at full draw."
It is 27 1/2"
"Then another experiment.Stand against a wall with both shoulders touching the wall.Also have your bow arm touching the wall.Hold your bow hand at shoulder height.Now have a friend measure the distance from the corner of your mouth
to the back side of your bow hand thumb sticking straight up (side of the thumb away from you).What is this measurement?"
It is 27 1/2"
I didn't do the last one since you said it was another way or doing the later one.
Let me guess, 27 1/2" should be my draw.
I also have the measurements you asked for previously.
"What is the distance from the end of the nock groove to the the curved part of the grip right under the arrow rest, when you are at full draw? I would like to know the pivot point to end of nock groove distance. You can have a friend measure this when you are at full draw."
It is 27 1/2"
"Then another experiment.Stand against a wall with both shoulders touching the wall.Also have your bow arm touching the wall.Hold your bow hand at shoulder height.Now have a friend measure the distance from the corner of your mouth
to the back side of your bow hand thumb sticking straight up (side of the thumb away from you).What is this measurement?"
It is 27 1/2"
I didn't do the last one since you said it was another way or doing the later one.
Let me guess, 27 1/2" should be my draw.
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First, let's try a few adjustments
Fowlhabit:
1) Let's shorten the wrist strap to trigger distance as much as we can.
Try to keep the knuckles horizontal, instead of against your face.
2) Shorten your draw length as much as possible on the draw length module.
3) Adjust the shoulder angle. Your bow shoulder is very far away from the string path. Try to rotate your upper body to be in line with the bow arm.
You want the bow arm and the two shoulders to be in a straight line.
![Image]()
Notice the fellow in the bottom picture.
The bow arm and the two shoulders are in a straight line.
The bow arm and he two shoulders are in a line that for you
would be aimed at the left side of the target bale. If the bow arm is aimed to the left edge of the target bale, then the arrow and release arm will be in a straight line towards the target. I call this the "power triangle".
When the draw length is correct,
you will look like this.
![Image]()
Fowlhabit:
1) Let's shorten the wrist strap to trigger distance as much as we can.
Try to keep the knuckles horizontal, instead of against your face.
2) Shorten your draw length as much as possible on the draw length module.
3) Adjust the shoulder angle. Your bow shoulder is very far away from the string path. Try to rotate your upper body to be in line with the bow arm.
You want the bow arm and the two shoulders to be in a straight line.
Notice the fellow in the bottom picture.
The bow arm and the two shoulders are in a straight line.
The bow arm and he two shoulders are in a line that for you
would be aimed at the left side of the target bale. If the bow arm is aimed to the left edge of the target bale, then the arrow and release arm will be in a straight line towards the target. I call this the "power triangle".
When the draw length is correct,
you will look like this.
FowlHabit said:
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9,216 Posts
Nut&Bolts, I think you might be speeding too much in this case...
I really feel this one should be done one step at a time. And, at least for me, this is where the corrections should start (together with more rotation in that draw elbow). And the picture is pretty much about what Romeo is suggesting:
I really feel this one should be done one step at a time. And, at least for me, this is where the corrections should start (together with more rotation in that draw elbow). And the picture is pretty much about what Romeo is suggesting:
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Nuts and Bolts
"1) Let's shorten the wrist strap to trigger distance as much as we can.
Try to keep the knuckles horizontal, instead of against your face."
I have the release shortened as much as it will go down. Should I be looking at a new release?
"2) Shorten your draw length as much as possible on the draw length module."
I'll do that at the shop today.
"3) Adjust the shoulder angle. Your bow shoulder is very far away from the string path. Try to rotate your upper body to be in line with the bow arm.You want the bow arm and the two shoulders to be in a straight line."
Are we talking about adjusting the anchor point? If so is holdinging my thumb on my jaw a good anchor?
What do you think of the No-Peep causing me to lean my neck into place? Should I be looking at installing a peep sight?
Dado
"I really feel this one should be done one step at a time. And, at least for me, this is where the corrections should start (together with more rotation in that draw elbow). And the picture is pretty much about what Romeo is suggesting:"
Are you suggesting a new release, or using the one I have in another way?
"1) Let's shorten the wrist strap to trigger distance as much as we can.
Try to keep the knuckles horizontal, instead of against your face."
I have the release shortened as much as it will go down. Should I be looking at a new release?
"2) Shorten your draw length as much as possible on the draw length module."
I'll do that at the shop today.
"3) Adjust the shoulder angle. Your bow shoulder is very far away from the string path. Try to rotate your upper body to be in line with the bow arm.You want the bow arm and the two shoulders to be in a straight line."
Are we talking about adjusting the anchor point? If so is holdinging my thumb on my jaw a good anchor?
What do you think of the No-Peep causing me to lean my neck into place? Should I be looking at installing a peep sight?
Dado
"I really feel this one should be done one step at a time. And, at least for me, this is where the corrections should start (together with more rotation in that draw elbow). And the picture is pretty much about what Romeo is suggesting:"
Are you suggesting a new release, or using the one I have in another way?
Fowl Habit
For the no peep , I draw the bow with my eyes closed to my anchor point then open my eyes and make sure the peep is where I can see it , If it is not adjust the nopeep.
You have to decide first on where you want your anchor point and how many references , i.e nose to string , light touch to the side of the face, etcetera.
If you have to stand in front of a mirror to make sure you are not leaning back when adjusting the peep.
Hope this helps
For the no peep , I draw the bow with my eyes closed to my anchor point then open my eyes and make sure the peep is where I can see it , If it is not adjust the nopeep.
You have to decide first on where you want your anchor point and how many references , i.e nose to string , light touch to the side of the face, etcetera.
If you have to stand in front of a mirror to make sure you are not leaning back when adjusting the peep.
Hope this helps
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54,869 Posts
FowlHabit: Unfortunately, you will need new draw modules
![Image]()
FowlHabit:
I was hoping maybe we could avoid you having to spend additional $$ on parts.
If the release is as short as possible,
and
if you are comfortable with your shoulder angle to the string,
then
our only option is to get much shorter draw length modules.
As Dado pointed out,
the release arm is aimed uphill.
This is a side effect of a draw length setting on the bow that is much too long.
I would "test drive" different draw length modules
until you look like this picture.
![Image]()
When the draw length setting on the bow is correct,
you will be able to stand up straight,
and
your release arm will be level, just like the picture of Zoli.
FowlHabit:
I was hoping maybe we could avoid you having to spend additional $$ on parts.
If the release is as short as possible,
and
if you are comfortable with your shoulder angle to the string,
then
our only option is to get much shorter draw length modules.
As Dado pointed out,
the release arm is aimed uphill.
This is a side effect of a draw length setting on the bow that is much too long.
I would "test drive" different draw length modules
until you look like this picture.
When the draw length setting on the bow is correct,
you will be able to stand up straight,
and
your release arm will be level, just like the picture of Zoli.
FowlHabit said:
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59 Posts
Nuts and Bolts
Thanks for your help with my newbie form. Luckily for me my local pro shop changed my modules from the 29" to 28" for free. He said to try these out and see if this solves the problem. So I'm going to try to shoot the 28" modules for a little while and see how they work out. While I was there I had a peep sight installed along with a wrist sling.
I have a question about anchor placement. Looking at the pic of Zoli, how do you establish a proper release hand to face placement?
Thanks for your help with my newbie form. Luckily for me my local pro shop changed my modules from the 29" to 28" for free. He said to try these out and see if this solves the problem. So I'm going to try to shoot the 28" modules for a little while and see how they work out. While I was there I had a peep sight installed along with a wrist sling.
I have a question about anchor placement. Looking at the pic of Zoli, how do you establish a proper release hand to face placement?
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