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oiling and permanent finishing of wood selfbows

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khyron717

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
hey everyone. i tried to ask my bowyer from the website i bought my inexpensive short bow and my yumi. but since the first two yumis were defective either by poor grain selection or because of a knick from manufacture, i asked for a shortbow (mainly because a yumi is less hunter/ post apocalypic survial tool friendly)

ive oiled the bow very well and have a question. should i oil it every time before i shoot it?

if i oiled and dried the surface then poly the bow would i never need to oil it again or what?

ps these are red oak bows with linen backs.
 
#2 ·
To Oil or not to Oil

I'm really not a Pro at finishing, but I've done several with very good results.
I went to a very professional "even legendary" friend and gunsmith here in Oklahoma, Marion Reed to ask about his wood finishing and how he accomplished such beautiful work. His proceedures were sanding and smoothing all surfaces up to about 15 times graduating from mid course to "VF" wet. Just before the final sanding he would take a damp clean rag, wipe the surface and dry it over an open flame [like a gas stove].This made all loose grains stand up [if you kooked carefully enough you could see them] and if you can see them, you can absolutely feel them. Then one VF final "dry" sand and wipe clean with a dry soft cotten towel. Then useing your finger, apply six to 10 coats of "Tru-Oil". T O perminates and is absorbed
by the wood up to about 1/8th inch. As the final 3 to 5 applications are done it begins to build up a beautiful "glass looking" finish. His # 1 grade stocks looked like mirrors. The finish is beautiful, water proof, elastic and become part of the wood, not just a surface finish. Be sure to wait at least 24 hrs.
between applications.
 
Discussion starter · #3 · (Edited)
im asking because i dont want the bow to dry out under the poly finish and crack

i apreciate your information but a wood bow is different from a gun stock, a gunstock doesnt have to bend to a 30 degree curve and not break.

one time i acturally used diffrent diluted acryllic paints to create a rainbow grain effect. i will take your finishing advice. and apply it .

basicly im trying to figure out. if i oil the bow, then poly it, would i have a need to oil the bow again?
 
#4 ·
once you put the desired number of coats of tru oil on your bow, you do not need to do anything else. you could also use tung oil. if you have your heart set on a poly finish. i have used minwax spar ureathane with excellent results.
don
 
#6 ·
YES YES YES on the Tru-Oil I love that stuff and have finished two of my bows with it to outstanding results! But it does take about 10 coats to get the awesome finish, but it is soooooooooo worth it. I just picked up another bottle last night.

Image


I usually sand my bows with 150 to remove the tool marks, then 220, 400, and finally 600. Wipe with acetone, blow any remaining dust off and start with the tru-oil coats. I sand with 0000 steel wool between the first 5 coats, then I do a wet sand with 1500 before the final coats. Gets great results. It's a lot of work, but it's a permanent awesome finish.

Image
 
#7 ·
To

khyron717 said:
im asking because i dont want the bow to dry out under the poly finish and crack

i apreciate your information but a wood bow is different from a gun stock, a gunstock doesnt have to bend to a 30 degree curve and not break.

one time i acturally used diffrent diluted acryllic paints to create a rainbow grain effect. i will take your finishing advice. and apply it .

basicly im trying to figure out. if i oil the bow, then poly it, would i have a need to oil the bow again?
Click to expand...
Please read my comments, again. TO will be as slick and shiny as any polymeric finish of any type. TO is elastic. It becomes part of the wood and
therefor seals, finishes very well and you may repair scratches easily.
However, please do exactly what you wish.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
ill pick some up someday... when i get a job again. anything beyond fastfood is almost non existent here lol. if only i could fletch for a living. i love making medieval arrows with bodkin swallowtail etc. heads its so much fun.
 
#10 ·
Is periodic oil treatment neccessary? It depends on what type of "oil" you used.

Some "oils", such as linseed oil or pure tung oil, are actual oils. True "oils" take a long time to dry, require many coats to build up a protective finish, and require periodic retreatment unless a subsequent, more permanent finish is applied later. These have a wonderful luster, but really don't provide much moisture protection.

Others, such as Birchwood Casey's Tru-Oil or "tung oil finish" are polymers with token amounts of oil. These "oils" dry quickly, require far fewer coats, and don't need to be retreated. They also offer much better moisture protection.

For permanence and convenience, I really like Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane in a spray can. Oil based polyurethanes and waterbased polyurethanes work as well, but I'm partial to the spar urethane since it is made to expand and contract under outdoor conditions. All are very waterproof.

Another great finish is paraffin (canning) wax. A bow can be finished in one application in 10 or 15 minutes. Warm the bow up with a paint stripping (heat) gun, then drip paraffin all over the bow, reheat the bow to remelt and distribute the paraffin, allow wax to set up, then swipe the excess off with paper towels. Great luster and highly waterproof, but in time, more applications may be needed.
 
#11 ·
Khyron, I think that you're getting some of your terminology tangled up. First off, a "polymer" is the result of a chemical process; it is not a material but rather the result of a treatment that permanently changes a material into another form (i.e. the material is polymerized).

Polyurethanes are a type of plastic (polymerized urethane) that might not be compatible as an overcoat to an underlying oil finish. Check with the manufacturer of the polyurethane to know for sure - they usually have a technical assistance Point-of-Contact on their net site for just this sort of thing.

As for oil finishes themselves......

- some oils will never dry. Cosmoline is a grease that is specifically designed to never dry (used in firearm storage). Most oils will eventually dry (for better or worse) including the stuff you put in your car.

- There are "hard drying oils" and "soft drying oils". Soft-drying oils go thru a tacky stage, hard-drying oils skip the tacky stage.

- Boiled Linseed oil is a soft-drying oil. It isn't a coincidence that boiled linseed oil smells just like an oil-based paint; boiled linseed oil IS the primary ingredient in oil-based paint (the rest being coloring agent(s) and an opaquing agent - usually titanium dioxide now that white lead is in disfavor - with a little Japan Drier to adjust the curing time). All of which is to say that Boiled Linseed oil will dry to a hard resilient finish - just like any oil based paint.

- raw linseed oil basically won't dry anytime soon.....

- tung oil is a hard drying oil that will definitely give a very very nice finish. It is favored over boiled linseed oil because it doesn't go thru that tacky stage. Also, tung oil doesn't tint the wood (boiled linseed oil will impart a golden hue to the wood).

- As for resilience, I wouldn't think that you really need that much protection for a bow. It's not like you're going to leave the bow out in the weather (note that oil finishes are used by traditional woodenboat builders on EXTERIOR wood surfaces with a great deal of success - they just have to renew the finish about every 4 to 6 months because the boats are out in the sun all the time). In any case, an oil finish will protect the wood from rain and/or sun. It gets down into the pores of the wood.

-An oil finish will wear out faster than some more modern finishes. Polyurethane finishes have a reputation for being very hard wearing. On the other hand, applying an oil finish is easy and darn near foolproof.

- If you decide to go with an oil finish and then later want to try a polyurethane finish, you may want to de-grease the wood with a rubdown using something like acetone. This will remove only the surface oil so that the polyurethane can grip the surface of the wood (again, check with the manufacturer).

- One product that I would suggest is called "Deks-Olje". It comes in gloss and satin finish and applies just like any oil finish but is longer lasting as it has some varnish resins mixed into it (as well as UV inhibitors). It's intended for exterior surfaces of boats 'bright work' (i.e. unpainted wood surfaces) and has an excellent reputation.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Kitsap said:
Khyron, I think that you're getting some of your terminology tangled up. First off, a "polymer" is the result of a chemical process; it is not a material but rather the result of a treatment that permanently changes a material into another form (i.e. the material is polymerized).

Polyurethanes are a type of plastic (polymerized urethane) that might not be compatible as an overcoat to an underlying oil finish. Check with the manufacturer of the polyurethane to know for sure - they usually have a technical assistance Point-of-Contact on their net site for just this sort of thing.

As for oil finishes themselves......

- some oils will never dry. Cosmoline is a grease that is specifically designed to never dry (used in firearm storage). Most oils will eventually dry (for better or worse) including the stuff you put in your car.

- There are "hard drying oils" and "soft drying oils". Soft-drying oils go thru a tacky stage, hard-drying oils skip the tacky stage.

- Boiled Linseed oil is a soft-drying oil. It isn't a coincidence that boiled linseed oil smells just like an oil-based paint; boiled linseed oil IS the primary ingredient in oil-based paint (the rest being coloring agent(s) and an opaquing agent - usually titanium dioxide now that white lead is in disfavor - with a little Japan Drier to adjust the curing time). All of which is to say that Boiled Linseed oil will dry to a hard resilient finish - just like any oil based paint.

- raw linseed oil basically won't dry anytime soon.....

- tung oil is a hard drying oil that will definitely give a very very nice finish. It is favored over boiled linseed oil because it doesn't go thru that tacky stage. Also, tung oil doesn't tint the wood (boiled linseed oil will impart a golden hue to the wood).

- As for resilience, I wouldn't think that you really need that much protection for a bow. It's not like you're going to leave the bow out in the weather (note that oil finishes are used by traditional woodenboat builders on EXTERIOR wood surfaces with a great deal of success - they just have to renew the finish about every 4 to 6 months because the boats are out in the sun all the time). In any case, an oil finish will protect the wood from rain and/or sun. It gets down into the pores of the wood.

-An oil finish will wear out faster than some more modern finishes. Polyurethane finishes have a reputation for being very hard wearing. On the other hand, applying an oil finish is easy and darn near foolproof.

- If you decide to go with an oil finish and then later want to try a polyurethane finish, you may want to de-grease the wood with a rubdown using something like acetone. This will remove only the surface oil so that the polyurethane can grip the surface of the wood (again, check with the manufacturer).

- One product that I would suggest is called "Deks-Olje". It comes in gloss and satin finish and applies just like any oil finish but is longer lasting as it has some varnish resins mixed into it (as well as UV inhibitors). It's intended for exterior surfaces of boats 'bright work' (i.e. unpainted wood surfaces) and has an excellent reputation.
Click to expand...
im just really worried about letting my bow dry out and break. ive had 3 bows from woodbows.com. all of them snapped in under a year or formed fatal cracks. of course the biggest reason other than cost was the fact that the manager or whatever is honest and has been true to his word and has given me replacements. right now he gave me a 40 lb longbow on its way. there is an oil/care instruction paper he gives. i followed all of them to the letter and still the bows broke. i just want to be sure i dont break anymore. i prefer asian style bows but dont have the money to shell out nor do i want some 60-70 pound monster. 40-45 is about as much as i can pull. personally i think they all broke because of poor grain selection with the oak limbs. thats where they cracked. a shortbow i got split perfectly in half in my hands, i could count the spinters in the fracture with one hand! so if anyone trys to tell me grain cracks in bows are a myth, they should take my 3 "examples" into account.
 
#13 ·
Sounds to me like you're on the right track..... I completely agree with you about the mode of failure of the bows. No way the failures could have been because you didn't oil the wood; oiling or finishing the wood just isn't all that critical with respect to maintaining the mechanical properties of the wood. Finishing the wood prevents the cellulose fibers from oxidizing and it also prevents rot spores from settling into the interstitial spaces (the spaces between individual wood cells - it is the interstitial spaces that you fill up when you soak or oil wood). Note that the manner in which the wood was originally cured will also have an effect on the mechanical characteristics of the wood as will the particular area in which the tree grew.
 
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Kitsap
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