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Amen! It's funny to read the rationalization for mega heavy arrows.
A 6” drop is indeed a big difference. So speed “fixes” that vertical error. (Kinda. Not really, depending on range, but say I wholesale agree for sake of argument.)

Now you miss 4 inches left. This is what mass fixes; the lateral error. Which makes it also funny to read the rationalization for mega fast/light arrows.

The secret is, what minimizes the effect of both errors? (Errors as in - real life including things we control and things we don’t. Animals with a will to live and nature, not guys shooting little foam targets in a controlled environment. As in, wind/terrain/animal movement, and missing your aim point.)

I also accept that there are extremes that nullify either argument. Super long range shots at antelope or 70lb Axis deer, I’d probably look at an abnormally light/fast arrow. Susceptibility to error is probably more vertical.

Whitetail? Average kill distance is 19 yards. Most from an elevated position. I’m gonna bet that 700gr makes a negligible difference in trajectory for that shot. So, why not? Susceptibility to error is almost purely lateral. Nothing in a whitetail is stopping that arrow.

Just my thoughts.
 

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Huntlore Podcast
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I tried the heavy arrow, 700 plus grains. I bought a dozen before experimenting with drop. Well if I moved back 2 yards, I was off big time. I'm not a light arrow guy, I'm all about moderation. I love 420-450 grain arrow. Give enough weight but also enough speed. But that's my set up and it's worked well on the real big game from moose to elk here in Manitoba.
 

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I tried the heavy arrow, 700 plus grains. I bought a dozen before experimenting with drop. Well if I moved back 2 yards, I was off big time. I'm not a light arrow guy, I'm all about moderation. I love 420-450 grain arrow. Give enough weight but also enough speed. But that's my set up and it's worked well on the real big game from moose to elk here in Manitoba.

Wow! I’ve never actually built or shot a 700, I actually just used it because that seems to be everyone’s example of heavy arrow “insanity.” Which it very much would be in many cases.

I did however experiment with “heavy,” just still within the bell curve of “normal”. Whatever that means. I’m a 515-ish guy but my setup doesn’t really vary that much from 485-525. So I take that middle and go with mass - for me. But my personal limit on game is 50, and that’s with a no wind, level, broadside shot on an unaware animal. Otherwise 40.

I think that last bit is another one that gets lost in the great arrow weight innernets war of the early 2020’s. 😉

I’m actually glad it’s all this big thing. A lot of people are doing a lot of testing and there’s more and more competition between component makers, vane designs, broadheads, etc. That’s good for all of us.
 

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PSE Levitate and a PSE Xpedite NXT. I dig fast bows!
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To me this just proves how unnecessary the ultra heavy arrow setup really is. I can live with a little loss in areas while I still keep the amount of time in air less that with those ultra heavy setups. In my opinion, this simply proves that the most useful and versatile setups are those that range from 6.2 to 6.5 grains of arrow weight to pounds of draw weight. They give you more than enough momentum which is far more critical I believe than KE, and still allow speeds that keep the flight time down and your trajectory more optimal. Just my opinion, nothing more.
 

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500-550 grain seems to be the sweet spot for my 60-65lb hunting bows.

I've always shot two blade heads two which helps.

When I shot 50 pounds I went heavier to around 620 grains and limited my range to 25 yards.

All my kill shots have been under 40. The real issue is not arrow weight, but this stupid idea that you need to shot an animal from a long distance.

Shooting long is egotistical and disrespectful.

You're not a hunter, you're never going to be a hunter, if thats what your idea is, is target practicing on our beautiful majestic wildlife with total disrespect for it. It takes the hunt out of everything. Sniping from extreme distance is not hunting it takes the excitement away.

If you are trying to built an arrow that you think will help you kill any animal at a long distance, sell your bow and buy a rifle.
 

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500-550 grain seems to be the sweet spot for my 60-65lb hunting bows.

I've always shot two blade heads two which helps.

When I shot 50 pounds I went heavier to around 620 grains and limited my range to 25 yards.

All my kill shots have been under 40. The real issue is not arrow weight, but this stupid idea that you need to shot an animal from a long distance.

Shooting long is egotistical and disrespectful.

You're not a hunter, you're never going to be a hunter, if thats what your idea is, is target practicing on our beautiful majestic wildlife with total disrespect for it. It takes the hunt out of everything. Sniping from extreme distance is not hunting it takes the excitement away.

If you are trying to built an arrow that you think will help you kill any animal at a long distance, sell your bow and buy a rifle.
do you think it’s ok to hunt with a Gun at 600 yards?
 

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I believe you are right on. That mid range 415-475 grain arrow is about perfect.
I have noticed an increase of deer hunting compound shooters backpedalling away from the heavy arrow fad as of late. A tuned fixed blade out of a modern compound with average specs does pretty darn good on deer. FWIW I blew thru both lungs of a mature cow elk with a mid 440 grain arrow at 245 fps and lost that arrow up a ridge it had so much energy left.

DIY Sportsman the super nerd he is (I say that in a very respectful way) is shooting a 425 grain arrow this year after doing his own testing comparing the pros and cons of heavy/light arrows. Ashbys chart gives the green light on 450 grain arrows for deer and that's not even a compound bow specific chart. Most traditional shooters hunt with less than 600 grains (I did a poll on this).

It's becoming laughable that people watch the fairy shoot a couple hogs at a feeder with a kids bow and 700 grain arrows at a known distance then suddenly they're experts on heavy arrows and why everyone should shoot them.
 

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I have noticed an increase of deer hunting compound shooters backpedalling away from the heavy arrow fad as of late. A tuned fixed blade out of a modern compound with average specs does pretty darn good on deer. FWIW I blew thru both lungs of a mature cow elk with a mid 440 grain arrow at 245 fps and lost that arrow up a ridge it had so much energy left.

DIY Sportsman the super nerd he is (I say that in a very respectful way) is shooting a 425 grain arrow this year after doing his own testing comparing the pros and cons of heavy/light arrows. Ashbys chart gives the green light on 450 grain arrows for deer and that's not even a compound bow specific chart. Most traditional shooters hunt with less than 600 grains (I did a poll on this).

It's becoming laughable that people watch the fairy shoot a couple hogs at a feeder with a kids bow and 700 grain arrows at a known distance then suddenly they're experts on heavy arrows and why everyone should shoot them.
this happens all the time. People get into the ashby set ups of 650 gr arrows. The following year they go back to the low 500 or even back into mid 400.

friend of mine went heavy for two years. Not going to say what happen but he is going back to his 475 gr arrow.

some of the things I don’t understand is Ashby himself has stated that they had to stop using compound bow in his testing because he always got a pass through, no measurable data. If that is true then why do people think we need arrows he tested from low energy bows on asiatic buffalo to kill white tail deer, or even elk?
 

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The Impartial Archer
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It's not only the drop it's the arch.
But that's not what he was talking about......sure the arch is less that's obvious as you gain speed but it's not the way to see how much drop you have between those two arrows. Two different things.
 

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No both will bite your butt. If you have a large arch it's a disadvantage beyond 20-25 yards. I shot that slow 280 fps one year. I shot a real nice oak branch on one shot, Had another old messed rack buck whirl on the shot because I was on the ground walking in when he came by and was on full alert on shot. Still broke ball joint and got him, but he moved alot on a 25 yds shot. Then had to pass on buck of many lifetimes for most when pin gap was to large to clear 2 branches. All this at 280 fps image 230-240 fps ! I will admit I do have alot longer pole saw now!
 

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But that's not what he was talking about......sure the arch is less that's obvious as you gain speed but it's not the way to see how much drop you have between those two arrows. Two different things.
for how I look at it.

I look at it as misjudging distance. So to test, I would take, say my 450gr arrow and then a say 650gr. Sight in the 450gr and shoot it at 20 yards and then aim the same point and pin but stand at 15 yards and 25 yards. Then repeat, say 40 yards. Then see how much that arrow drops or climbs in that 5 yards. Then repeat with the 650gr. This is a good way to look at it.

If you want to look at the trajectory. Set up a target at whatever distance. Greater distance is better when looking at the trajectory. Place a board above the target and mark it every 12", then site in your light arrow at that distance. (60 yards is a good distance) then set up the camera and video and see how far above the aim point the arrow is. Repeat with the heavy arrow. It will be a big difference.

I have a video, I think, where Joel did this test. Let me see if I can find it.
 

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So your sacrificing almost 6" of drop at forty to gain 5 ft lbs. 5 ft lbs 99% of the time ain't making a difference 6 inches is a big difference
People are way over thinking and over engineering this hunting stuff.
You can kill a an animal with a freakin recurve and wood arrow at under 200 fps with proper shot placement.

No matter the bow you are sighting it in at 20 and 40 yards and way beyond in most cases. Your modern bow will easily hit its target with more than enough power to kill it given proper shot placement.
 

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Is everyone getting their speeds from chrono’s or calculators? I’m chucking a 470-485 grain arrow depending on fletching configuration. Mathews traverse with 70 lb limbs bolted down snug and 30” mods. It measures 30 and 3/4 inches on my draw board. I don’t own a chrono, but most speed calculators say I should be in the 290’s fps. That seems a little faster than I would think to be honest. I can’t imagine going heavier for arrow weight even though I’ve never killed a deer further than 30 yards with a bow in my life. When I killed my longbow buck I think my arrow weight was around 560 with a cedar shaft and a zwicky glue on eskimo head. Now that was really slow lol! I literally passed on multiple deer at twenty thinking “that’s just too far”. Funny to me now looking back.
 

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The Impartial Archer
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What I do is set a bow up with a certain arrow and since I really only hunt I get my 3D target out and sit it in front of my other two targets. One is a bag target over the deer the other my Matrix under the deer. Then I shoot the deer for incorrect yardage on purpose.

I do that for my normal range all the way out to 40 because as far as I have any interest in shooting my bow. The faster you shoot obviously the more you can be off.........but shooting the 3D deer tell me what I might see as a hunter more than trying to convert inches on a target to vitals impacts on deer.

Like many archers I started out not knowing OR caring what speed I shot, then I went through the speed era shooting almost 90 pounds trying to get every drop of speed I could muster and then I settled into where I am now probably 25 27 years ago....which is using all that great info and putting it to work for me.

So what I have now is a great blend of trajectory, quietness, forgivingness and penetration for the way I hunt. I guess that's why I always seem to anger people that spread wives tales or try to push only one side or the other...........I'd rather give the un-biased facts and let them use those as opposed to biased facts to push my agenda.

Not pointing any fingers here just making that point......when you hear things like lighter arrows have more KE or penetrate better, or penetration falls off when you go over 450 grains or things like that they are wrong......so I can't sit here and let people say that when we all know it's wrong.

So what we do know is a heavy arrow DOES penetrate better but also the heavier it is the LESS trajectory you will have.........what works for archer A will never be the same for archer B unless they are twins, share the same bow and hunt the same stands............lol

So my goal is to get people to understand the rules that are constant and then pick the ones they need to hone their rigs in for them..........that's helping people out IMO. Trying to get them to shoot the arrow weight, draw weight and broad I chose because they work for me.........not so much.

So I like the tests but we need to make sure they don't get too biased and lose focus of the intent to help others.....
 

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Most of the time people shouldn’t be shooting whatever you or I choose to use unless they have the same abilities and deficiencies. A man who aims forward on an animal and cannot judge yardage, might not want to be using the same setup as another man who aims back more and can guess yardage like a pro. Of course they might want to, and that’s great. Confidence and personal experience matter.

A stand hunter and a western hunter can certainly use the same setup. But will it be optimal? I’m not sure because there are so many variances with any given hunters abilities, environment, and tendencies. The good news is that it doesn’t matter what the rest of us think. It’s your money, time, and hair you have left to pull out.

Im not gonna bust balls because someone wants to be light and fast, or slow and heavy. They are at that specific point because the either don’t know any better because they are new and inexperienced, or they are precisely where they want to be because they are very experienced with that setup and it’s what gives them the best results.
 
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