Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We are having a debate at my shop. If price doesn't matter, and I am an Intermediate archer, what riser and limb combination would be the next step up. And why? Student is currently shooting Win and Win Winnex 25 riser and Uukha Ex1 limbs. Hoyt, Win and Win, Fivics, Sf, etc. Obvisously in the states, Hoyt is very popular, and that is what Brady shoots, so must of my students think that the nest best thing has to be Hoyt. Thanks to anyone that chims in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,070 Posts
Tim, I don’t think that set up is holding your student back at all. I’m fairly ambivalent about most equipment choices. Hoyt limits your choice of limbs if you opt for Formula.

As you are well aware, most equipment related points are gained with arrows. And kids who are growing can go through arrows quickly, so top end arrows become a money sink.

Bottom line is unless you’re after something new for aesthetics, what she is shooting is perfectly fine and you will not add points by changing risers, limbs, stabs, etc. Get the arrows flying well and nose to the grindstone.
 

·
Genesis 21:20
Joined
·
22,536 Posts
These are the discussions that frankly turn me off from helping a lot of people in Olympic target archery.

$2K for a bow for an intermediate archer? Really? Like Midway said, a Winex riser and Uukha Ex1 limbs are not going to hold back an intermediate archer. If they think otherwise, the problem is in their head and not their gear. I've had a lot of archers want to argue with me about this exact topic, and I use it as a litmus test for who I'm willing to work with. If an intermediate archer insists on spending $2K on a new bow, I send them to another coach because I don't have time for that mindset.

Take that money and spend it on lessons and tournament fees. That will be much better spent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
It seems like an innocent and honest question and, in my opinion, shouldn't be followed with an over-the-top emotional tirade that helps no one. Anyway...

Uukha makes fantastic risers and limbs and if you have a very liberal budget, I'd steer you in that direction as a contender.

Hoyt and Win and Win make and market quite a few different risers and limbs that would satisfy most archers of any skill level.

As others have said, your skills as an archer will be dependent on many things...confidence, attitude, understanding of tuning, and conditioning being just a few of the things that help one's progression.

Whatever keeps the person enjoying this sport is of benefit to all of us...and we all have different reasons and motivations to participate.

There are plenty of examples of people winning and setting records with "outdated" and "out of tune" equipment.

It takes all kinds. Enjoy the sport! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,204 Posts
A coach for a year.

Best set up ever.




But to answer the question seriously, probably a mid range riser like a W&W Winex or a even a used CXT, AXT, Uukha UproLite, and then some decent limbs like Uukha EX1, Ux100, Winex, or used Inno EX.

Hoyt makes good mid range stuff too but theyre a little more expensive and if you go formula, you're tethered to Hoyt limbs forever.

Just because Brady uses Hoyt does not mean it's the best. Any and all bows will shoot 10's when in the hands of a good shooter.
 

·
Desert Island Trading Co.
Joined
·
4,776 Posts
For riser, used MKX10 riser or used Hoyt GMX

For limbs, MK L3 limbs or Inpers.


Chris
 

·
Pronounced like 'RC Cola'
Joined
·
1,305 Posts
It seems like an innocent and honest question and, in my opinion, shouldn't be followed with an over-the-top emotional tirade that helps no one.
:set1_rolf2:

$2000 just for a riser and limbs? Or the entire setup? Most risers/limbs only go for about $700 nowadays so $2000 may be overkill just for riser and limbs.

My vote would be for a W&W ATF or Gray AIX for the riser. I would say Epik but it's got tons of moving thingies on it. Not saying an intermediate archer wouldn't be able to handle it, but the ATF/Gray are significantly more simple.

For limbs I would say anything in the top range, meaning W&W NS or WiaWis One, Hoyt Xtour, MK Veracity. They all feel the same. Pick the one you think looks the coolest.

(full disclosure, I am shooting a Hoyt GMX with WiaWis One Foam limbs.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
For riser, used MKX10 riser or used Hoyt GMX

For limbs, MK L3 limbs or Inpers.


Chris
I second that because that’s exactly what I just bought. Veracity instead. And the MK X10 is freakin gorgeous in person.


Yeah I think this is just a fun topic. Definitely do not let that person actually spend that money on equipment. The only reason I switched was a change in preference. My scores actually went down because I’m still tuning and getting used to my set up.

The real way to spend that is on coaching and tourney fees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Could it not be argued that a person's preparedness to spend $2000 on a bow is a reflection on their intended level of commitment? Their intention would be that with the combination of their commitment and proper coaching, they could reasonably expect to reach quite a high level. In this case, they would have saved themselves the cost of the intermediate bow.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,359 Posts
Could it not be argued that a person's preparedness to spend $2000 on a bow is a reflection on their intended level of commitment? Their intention would be that with the combination of their commitment and proper coaching, they could reasonably expect to reach quite a high level. In this case, they would have saved themselves the cost of the intermediate bow.
What some are speaking to here is a scenario whereby too much of the available money is spent on equipment and not enough then left over for coaching of technique and tuning and tournament participation/experience. It's a listing of priorities.

Yes, of course, though, you're right, too. For some personality types, the financial reach/commitment energizes and secures their focused motivation to pursue with vigor the coaching, the technique acquisition, the tournament experience/success.

Everyone succeeds or fails via his/her own individual route.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,359 Posts
:set1_rolf2:

$2000 just for a riser and limbs? Or the entire setup? Most risers/limbs only go for about $700 nowadays so $2000 may be overkill just for riser and limbs.

My vote would be for a W&W ATF or Gray AIX for the riser. I would say Epik but it's got tons of moving thingies on it. Not saying an intermediate archer wouldn't be able to handle it, but the ATF/Gray are significantly more simple.

For limbs I would say anything in the top range, meaning W&W NS or WiaWis One, Hoyt Xtour, MK Veracity. They all feel the same. Pick the one you think looks the coolest.

(full disclosure, I am shooting a Hoyt GMX with WiaWis One Foam limbs.)
Arsi, have you shot the Gray AIX riser? If so, I'd love to read your review of it. It intrigues me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Could it not be argued that a person's preparedness to spend $2000 on a bow is a reflection on their intended level of commitment? Their intention would be that with the combination of their commitment and proper coaching, they could reasonably expect to reach quite a high level. In this case, they would have saved themselves the cost of the intermediate bow.
For what it's worth, we have this same discussion repeatedly over in the compound forums too and the main features of the debate are virtually identical on every single iteration:
- a large fraction of the folks going "you don't have to spend $2000 to shoot well, spend it on coaching, etc." and "gear doesn't matter" have themselves spent that $2000 and often more on the most bank-loan-required, high-end gear currently available on the market. Meaning, they're actually saying one thing about gear but are themselves actually doing another.
- another, but smaller fraction, aren't doing that.
- there are both legitimate and illegitimate reasons for spending $2000 on a piece of gear like a bow.

As for the first and 2nd points, I bring those up only as a gauge you can use to test the veracity of a piece of advice on buying gear. If the advice is "you don't shoot well enough to spend $2000 on a bow" and yet that plaintiff has himself bought the most expensive possible bow, sight, rest, stabilizer system, 2 dozen Protours and a quiver worth more than $200 _and_ you've never heard of the guy, than you have very good reason to be suspicious of that guy's advice. And so on for other combinations: if they "practice what they preach", OTOH, they might actually be giving you some good advice.

As for the 3rd point, I agree with tooold: one very legitimate reason for spending 2 large on a bow, even if you're at only a low-intermediate level at the time, is to future-proof your investment. $2000 will buy a very high quality bow that you might not have to buy again for a very long time _if ever_. These days it's usually thought that the bow stops shooting well and has to be thrown away for a new one every 3 years at the latest and often yearly (partly a phenomenon of professional compound archery sponsored by bow manufacturers). But it turns out modern bows are so high quality, most of them could literally be shot for the rest of the life of the archer as long you can keep them in parts.

This is particularly true of recurves. One of our local shooters (Sam Tuma) has had his same bow and limbs for more than 10 years; the last time I talked to him, he couldn't even remember the last time he unbraced it. I offered to make him a new string a couple years ago but I think he's still on the old one. But he's one of top senior shooters in our state with that "ancient" bow.

I also agree that level of commitment is a good reason to get high end gear. If you're really dedicated to the sport and you want an additional incentive to put arrows through the bow, a significant investment in your gear can be part of doing that. It looks nice, it feels divine on the shot, it's super comfortable in your hands, nothing rattles or falls off it... those are all really nice features that can make shooting a lot quite a bit more pleasant than shooting something that's not as good.

So basically, those are the items that come to mind when I encounter this topic: what are your goals and what do you want to do? How committed are you and how far do you see yourself going? Do you want to shoot or do you want to shoot and tinker (both are perfectly legitimate) ? And so on....

lee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Commitment? Eh. You don't have to be committed to write a check.
Of course you do. The check is just the last stage in the process - before that is everything you did to earn the money and whatever work went into the decision to buy the gear you ended up choosing. The bigger the check, the more pain it inflicts. Accordingly, the greater care, research and thought required before you do it..

lee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,070 Posts
All you have to do is look in the garages of most BMW, Ducati and Guzzi bike owners. There are so many of these bikes with less than 1k miles on them. I’d say writing the check proves that one has the means to scratch an itch and nothing more.

You want to know what signifies commitment in our sport? It is all the hours at the range spent shooting when you are the only one there. It is the grit and determination to overcome your own shooting demons.

Buying equipment only signifies a fat wallet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Well the idea is to find the BMW that has > 100k miles on it. Not so much if it's just a BMW. Same thing with archery gear. When I shot our league last fall there were several Podiums there, but they had fuzzy strings with the serving coming off of them too, just like the bows like mine where the grip tape is worth more than what you could get for the whole bow.

Those are the "winners" that you want to talk to about your next bow purchase; it's not so important what the actual bow is they have, it's how many shots are on it....

lee.
 

·
Genesis 21:20
Joined
·
22,536 Posts
Of course you do. The check is just the last stage in the process - before that is everything you did to earn the money and whatever work went into the decision to buy the gear you ended up choosing. The bigger the check, the more pain it inflicts. Accordingly, the greater care, research and thought required before you do it..

lee.
Assuming it's the archer who actually earned the money. ;) Most of the problem I've encountered is the archer's willingness to spend someone else's (usually parent's) money. Which may speak to the level of commitment of the parent, but has nothing to do with the level of commitment of the archer.

Could it not be argued that a person's preparedness to spend $2000 on a bow is a reflection on their intended level of commitment?
I've seen this movie enough times to know how it usually ends. So I would answer no. There is no way to purchase points in this sport with anything other than skill and dedication and hard work. Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking for a shortcut, which is a sign of a poor mental game IMO.

There are plenty of equipment-intensive sports where you are going to have to spend some money to be competitive. Thankfully, archery really isn't one of those. And certainly not in the riser and limbs. Arrows maybe, but even then an archer's score will still reflect their physical and mental training above all else.
 

·
Genesis 21:20
Joined
·
22,536 Posts
- a large fraction of the folks going "you don't have to spend $2000 to shoot well, spend it on coaching, etc." and "gear doesn't matter" have themselves spent that $2000 and often more on the most bank-loan-required, high-end gear currently available on the market. Meaning, they're actually saying one thing about gear but are themselves actually doing another.
Two thoughts come to mind. First, I don't think this is correct, and second, perhaps someone who has spent a lot of money on gear and realized it made little to no difference is actually more qualified to offer this advice. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Two thoughts come to mind. First, I don't think this is correct, and second, perhaps someone who has spent a lot of money on gear and realized it made little to no difference is actually more qualified to offer this advice. ;)
First, strange but true. In the compound world, anyway. I've seen it more than once in my almost-30 year, er, "career" in compound; as I said most of it is inspired by the virtually yearly complete gear changes in the pro classes, where last year's bleeding-edge, absolutely top of the line bow disappears and is replaced with this year's bleeding-edge, absolutely top of the line bow. There was even a thread up in the general section not too long ago where the topic was what do the pros do with their old bows. Accordingly, there's now the folklore among the mortals that if it's even a year old, no matter what it is, it won't hit the target anymore this year and needs replaced with a new one.

Second, that's a good point, but it does still require reading between the lines of the advice offered. In fact, you can get the wrong impression if you watch the guy and he's shooting an 8 every other end with all that stuff. That's a very common occurrence too. That might lead you to incorrectly think that the Podium or Prevail or TRX (or whatever it is) is actually a finicky bow that won't work for you. When in fact, if you did go try one out, it might actually be exactly what you need. So either way, you have to be careful.

Like I said, I go by the bows that have the fuzzed out strings and the dirt and grime on the handle tape. Those are the ones I know are being shot a lot so I usually pick those out as my first candidates in the very rare event I consider buying a new bow....

lee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,232 Posts
Assuming it's the archer who actually earned the money. ;) Most of the problem I've encountered is the archer's willingness to spend someone else's (usually parent's) money. Which may speak to the level of commitment of the parent, but has nothing to do with the level of commitment of the archer.
I definitely agree with you on that too. But again, the grip tape and condition of the cables is the smoking gun. If it still looks brand spanking new at even a year old, that's an indicator that any information you hear about it should probably be double-checked.... But even if mom and dad did take out a second mortgage to buy it, if it's on its second set of strings, and it's got dings and chips starting to appear on it, labels wearing off on the shafts and limbs... there may be more commitment there with the shooter than might first be apparent... But that's an excellent point, I agree.

lee.
 
1 - 20 of 73 Posts
Top