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Discussion Starter #1
Serious answers please.....

What are you grouping like @ 30 yards, and what type of rest are you using?

I've finally found a way to shoot this hunting bow without severe wingers, but the best I can do @ 30 yards with 6 arrows is just under a 3 1/2 inch group through my Whisker Biscuit.

I'm used to doing quite a bit better than this. On on a good day I can group the same arrows in a 2 inch area with my other bow. (2004 B/T Justice 80lb. -They're both hunting bows, with the same configuration: same light stabilizer, same release, same arrows etc....)

Actually - I don't even use any stabilizer on the Justice...

PS: The Justice has 1/2 an inch of extra brace height (8 inches), but no string suppressor. (Should be about equal I would think, especially with the Admiral's deflex style riser. ATA's are pretty close too.)
 

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I'm using a QAD Pro rest, and I never do more than a three arrow group because even at that I'm affraid I'm going to break arrows. If I can keep from getting target panic, I typically have a 2"-3" group. When I first put my broadheads on this season I put 3 arrows right next to each other and cut a couple vanes off at 30 yards.

I've had two Admirals and haven't had any tuning problems with either one. They both paper, walkback, and french tuned just a hair inside of center, although I did notice that at full draw the arrow doesn't point down the trough of the shelf.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm using a QAD Pro rest, and I never do more than a three arrow group because even at that I'm affraid I'm going to break arrows. If I can keep from getting target panic, I typically have a 2"-3" group. When I first put my broadheads on this season I put 3 arrows right next to each other and cut a couple vanes off at 30 yards.

I've had two Admirals and haven't had any tuning problems with either one. They both paper, walkback, and french tuned just a hair inside of center, although I did notice that at full draw the arrow doesn't point down the trough of the shelf.
Thanks for the reply. French tuned - What is that, and how many shots on your bow?
I'm slightly inside too. I've used every trick in the book I can think of to get marginally acceptable groupings. I'm going to have the axle bearings checked now that the season ended today. (cause I was putting arrows almost on top of one another, sometimes even out @ 40 yards shortly after I got it, but that didn't last too long.)

Hope to hear back from some W/B shooters too.....
 

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French tuning is something I read about that nuts&bolts had posted. It is a great way to get pretty close if you don't have a lot of space. I can't remember exactly how it worked.

I shot one of my Admirals for 12 weeks of league, so between that and practice I'm guessing I had about 1000 shots through it with no change in accuracy. Actually, the person with the highest score in my league shot an Admiral as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
French tuning is something I read about that nuts&bolts had posted. It is a great way to get pretty close if you don't have a lot of space. I can't remember exactly how it worked.

I shot one of my Admirals for 12 weeks of league, so between that and practice I'm guessing I had about 1000 shots through it with no change in accuracy. Actually, the person with the highest score in my league shot an Admiral as well.
I honestly think mine shot more predictably the day I brought it home! (Of course, I have nearly 3x the shots through mine as you do, but the cams are still in sync and the string has only stretched a tiny bit. -B/T does put a fabulous stock string on their bows -still looks new!) I had to re-tune the bow, go to the smallest W/B, line the grip area with packing tape (slippery) & then I removed the outside grip plate. "Franken-Bow" - not quite... That may hapapen if I end up with the TAP shoot-thru mod.

.....But I've also had to "re-tune myself" (adapt a new grip & shooting style which includes holding fairly hard into the back wall) to get the grouping I'm now getting. A lot of things to think about (especially in the woods) whenever I draw back - just to get the "O.K." shot placement. (Still not where it should be given my skill level -IMHO.) Unless I've "shot my arm out," it's not me.

I long to love the Hoyt's, but you gotta love the B/T valley & the rock solid wall. -Don't think I can give that up.
(And even though "the bow doesn't like me" I'd love to hate it back... but I can't.)
 

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Remember... by saying u can shoot 3" groups or less at 30 means that u could shoot 300's in a five spot round from that distance.

3.5" groups everytime is honestly very good IMO out of a 31" bow...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Remember... by saying u can shoot 3" groups or less at 30 means that u could shoot 300's in a five spot round from that distance.

3.5" groups everytime is honestly very good IMO out of a 31" bow...
Can do it "almost every time." I don't have a clue as to what 300's in a five spot round from that distance actually means. Could you please explain. I'm interested. I've never done any competition..... thus don't know the lingo.

Hmmmm... I didn't realize that was good shooting. I shoot nearly an inch tighter groups with my old bow. Besides, I usually shoot alone. The only things I hear here on A/T is how everyone claims they're shooting bullet-holes. One arrow after another, side by side.

I do have half a dozen "robin-hoods" (one @ 40 yards, 2 shots back to back) but as hard as I try, none at all with this Admiral. Had some close calls when it was new, but it doesn't seem to have the precision, and I don't seem to have the "mojo." Should probably have it blessed by Ted Nugent. (just kidding)

Aside from bowhunting, I set up targets in my back yard, and shoot off the porch @ 30 & 40 yards until I'm blue in the face.
 

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I shoot an admiral with a quad pro hd drop away on it as well and the bow is a tack driver.The bow will shoot arrows in the same arrow hole everytime the only reason it doesn't is because i'm the one shooting it.As far as grouping goes at 30 yards..the last time i tried that it cost me 30 bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I shoot an admiral with a quad pro hd drop away on it as well and the bow is a tack driver.The bow will shoot arrows in the same arrow hole everytime the only reason it doesn't is because i'm the one shooting it.As far as grouping goes at 30 yards..the last time i tried that it cost me 30 bucks.
Ahhh, good humor....

When my bow was new, (in the first month of practicing) I literally drilled a 1 inch hole hole through the heart area of my deer target @ 30 yards using practice tips.... The bow won't do that anymore.... Dealer says bow checks out OK, everything is in sync and poundage / penetration has not changed. Only thing he hasn't checked are the axle bearings for wear.

... As for me, he says I check out OK. But since he can't fit both me and my bow onto the draw board simultaneously... He's not willing to make judgment on the technical aspects of my shooting form. :bounce:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
30 yds = 5", wisker bisquit, Scott Widcat, blazer vanes.
Maybe I have set my standards too high for this low ATA bow... Interesting though, because aside from a different Scott longhorn, we're shooting the same setup. (I only have a tiny ultra-light stabilizer on my bow which only helps to dampen a bit, I'm sure. Only put it there to add a nub to put lift cord around instead of threading loop between string & stopper.)
But, the only thing is, I was shooting it amazingly well shortly after first bringing it home.... Boy did that give me a "false sense of security, and a mild shooting complex in the woods." Managed to "barely" harvest two deer here in NH, but I was all all "FUDDED" up over this all season long. (which ended yesterday)
 

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Maybe I have set my standards too high for this low ATA bow... Interesting though, because aside from a different Scott longhorn, we're shooting the same setup. (I only have a tiny ultra-light stabilizer on my bow which only helps to dampen a bit, I'm sure. Only put it there to add a nub to put lift cord around instead of threading loop between string & stopper.)
But, the only thing is, I was shooting it amazingly well shortly after first bringing it home.... Boy did that give me a "false sense of security, and a mild shooting complex in the woods." Managed to "barely" harvest two deer here in NH, but I was all all "FUDDED" up over this all season long. (which ended yesterday)
I have always shot my Admiral very well,, tuned way inside. I kept after it trying new ideas and tinkering with different arrows. Now that it's converted to a shoot through system, I really don't see much more "accuracy" but the arrow flight is simply perfect now. That alone has BOOSTED my confidence in the field and at practice and I know it has improved my consistency at accurately hitting the mark.
Can the lack of confidence contribute to diminishing accuracy over time? Absolutely!!! The only real difference between then and now for me is that my arrows look like lazer beams streaking toward the target instead of little corkscrews,, with field points and broadheads. Fixed heads now, are like lazer beams as compared to big corkscrews then.
 

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1" to 2" groups easily at 30 yds. Easily put my fingers around the group at 30 yards. Put my fingers around the group at 40 yds. on a good day. It's nothing to hear arrows smacking one another at 30 yds. The bow is capable of shooting extremely accurate. If the bow is such a headache for you why don't you just sale it?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
1" to 2" groups easily at 30 yds. Easily put my fingers around the group at 30 yards. Put my fingers around the group at 40 yds. on a good day. It's nothing to hear arrows smacking one another at 30 yds. The bow is capable of shooting extremely accurate. If the bow is such a headache for you why don't you just sale it?
EXACTLY....
On a good day, that's the way my groups used to be after a couple of weeks into shooting the bow! -back when it was "new"......

Then my arms got stronger, but my groups got weaker, tuning became more precise, and I've been trying to compensate by being more conscientious with an insane amount of attention to detail ever since.... While trying to compensate, I actually had/have a checklist in my head I go over for each shot. Never had to do this when it was new. (or with any other bow for that matter) Not really practical in the woods to say the least. Regardless, still can't shoot groups like before.

I will say that when shooting practice tips (and expandable tips, as I don't shoot fixed blades) they do come out of the bow and stay pretty darn straight -watching through the sight ring that is. (Providing I don't try shooting a bare shaft without vanes - another one of my ideas in an attempt to further fine-tune the bow. Wish I never had, because I've never seen anything like it before in any other bow. Actually - seeing the arrow curve so far (regardless of rest position) might have been the confidence breaker to me.) Freaky to watch, to say the least.

Am beginning to believe (as was suggested to me) the problem is actually axle bearing related, but there are no physical signs other than grouping degradation.
 

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Sorry bud but it ain't the axle bearings.. It's riser torque from the roller guard that dosen't respond to your grip. I'm a firm believer that there are people that have the correct grip to shoot these bows very well and then there are those of us that don't. We either have to fix our grip or fix the bow. Personally I don't think a design that works for some is a good design for everyone. A better design would be a bow that tunes down the middle for most, tunes outside for some and then also tunes inside for others. It can be designed!
 

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Sorry bud but it ain't the axle bearings.. It's riser torque from the roller guard that dosen't respond to your grip. I'm a firm believer that there are people that have the correct grip to shoot these bows very well and then there are those of us that don't. We either have to fix our grip or fix the bow. Personally I don't think a design that works for some is a good design for everyone. A better design would be a bow that tunes down the middle for most, tunes outside for some and then also tunes inside for others. It can be designed!
If it's not the bearings, do you sincerely think a custom grip would help beyond the modifications I have made to my shooting to accommodate the bow? The only thing here I would like to comment on with regards to your reply, is the honest fact that I shot significantly better groups, with far less attention to detail, when this bow had far fewer shots on it than it does now. (And as I've said before, cams and string etc. are still right on.)

I just can't accept the fact that getting used to a bow could make your grouping degrade. (that would be a first for me)
 

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If it's not the bearings, do you sincerely think a custom grip would help beyond the modifications I have made to my shooting to accommodate the bow? The only thing here I would like to comment on with regards to your reply, is the honest fact that I shot significantly better groups, with far less attention to detail, when this bow had far fewer shots on it than it does now. (And as I've said before, cams and string etc. are still right on.)

I just can't accept the fact that getting used to a bow could make your grouping degrade. (that would be a first for me)
Yes I think a custom grip would help. One that is higher on the right side for a right handed shooter to counter the cable torque to hold the bow straighter. It's still a compromise and the torque is still there though. There is so much tension in the cables at full draw that it fights against the tension in the bow string that has 12 pounds of tension on a 60 pound bow. The cables win the tug of war against the weaker string and the bow turns to the right, making you move the rest in and the sight out.
Maybe tear the bow down to confirm the condition of the bearings in the cams for your own peace of mind?
 

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If it's not the bearings, do you sincerely think a custom grip would help beyond the modifications I have made to my shooting to accommodate the bow? The only thing here I would like to comment on with regards to your reply, is the honest fact that I shot significantly better groups, with far less attention to detail, when this bow had far fewer shots on it than it does now. (And as I've said before, cams and string etc. are still right on.)

I just can't accept the fact that getting used to a bow could make your grouping degrade. (that would be a first for me)
I hate the aftermarket grip that is on my captain... The bow in general is far too torquey for me...
 

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EXACTLY....
(Providing I don't try shooting a bare shaft without vanes - another one of my ideas in an attempt to further fine-tune the bow. Wish I never had, because I've never seen anything like it before in any other bow. Actually - seeing the arrow curve so far (regardless of rest position) might have been the confidence breaker to me.) Freaky to watch, to say the least.

Am beginning to believe (as was suggested to me) the problem is actually axle bearing related, but there are no physical signs other than grouping degradation.
BINGO! That is EXACTLY when I knew there was something wrong with the bow and not me! Then I cam on here only to be told I didn't know how to shoot or tune a bow! LOL! I have been shooting bows for 35 years and this is the FIRST bow EVER to be untuneable in it's factory shipped to you state.

you need aShoot-Thru and you will see what we have been trying to tell you! ;)
 
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