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· Desert Island Trading Co.
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Nice to see changes for many of the topics and issues that were debated here.

I like the changes for guests, the rebranding, the seating area, and JOAD team changes.

Bravo to USA archery for listening.


Chris
 

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A. So can coaching credentials still be bought even if the person is not a legit USAA certified coach?... sorry this concern comes from the hordes of parents in the joad lines who take up all the room they possibly can under tents by just buying a pass and not actually doing anything but taking room under tents away from archers. What was the price of coaching credentials before?

B. The junior and below barebow divisions haven't had eight or more competitors in indoor nats yet? I thought they had?
 

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I like the changes. Kudos to USAA for listening to folks out there. The only thing I see that may become an issue is that if non-Americans cannot participate in elimination rounds that there will probably be fewer making the trip.
 

· Grizzlee
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I like the changes. Kudos to USAA for listening to folks out there. The only thing I see that may become an issue is that if non-Americans cannot participate in elimination rounds that there will probably be fewer making the trip.
Not one non-American will make the trip to attend any of those events because now the competition is only a single 720 (1 day event) - they attend to get elimination practice against world class competition, now the US archers can play with themselves, they will never know how they compare or stack up until the event...this is very disappointing.

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· Desert Island Trading Co.
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well, on the other side, there are archers who did not make the USA team because a non american archer shot in the eliminations and eliminated them from the tournament. Costing them valuable placement points. They shouldnt be in the mix if rolling rank points are being decided for the US teams.

Non american archers are welcome to come compete as a guest in qualifications and in team rounds.

I feel this is the right direction.

Chris
 

· Grizzlee
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well, on the other side, there are archers who did not make the USA team because a non american archer shot in the eliminations and eliminated them from the tournament. Costing them valuable placement points. They shouldnt be in the mix if rolling rank points are being decided for the US teams.

Non american archers are welcome to come compete as a guest in qualifications and in team rounds.

I feel this is the right direction.

Chris
In Canada, we have seperate trials when picking teams, and we do allow non-canadian archers into our elimination rounds.

Does this mean these shoots lose their international ranking because no international archers are attending?

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· Desert Island Trading Co.
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The Arizona cup was the only international ranking tournament in the USA. The rest are not ( Outdoor Nationals, Socal, Gator cup, Texas etc).

The Arizona cup may not be an international ranking tournament in 2017. I heard that was changing after last year.

Chris
 

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Hmmm, we've got a large number of folks "long term residing" in SoCal at various levels of "Immigration Status", both Adults and kids. Training seriously. It would be a shame if they couldn't compete. From reading this section (2.4):

https://rulebook.worldarchery.org/PDF/Official/2016-10-01/EN-Book1.pdf

It sounds like they just need to reside in the USA 1 year, have a USA passport (or permission from whatever country their Passport is from to compete for the USA) .
(I could see that maybe an issue at the moment for Russians, Middle Easterners, Philippines, or whoever is currently pissed at us. :)

And I looked good in Yoga Pants. Now I'm goanna have to wear a Skort (I didn't even know what those were) over them.

Brent
 

· Grizzlee
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The Arizona cup was the only international ranking tournament in the USA. The rest are not ( Outdoor Nationals, Socal, Gator cup, Texas etc).

The Arizona cup may not be an international ranking tournament in 2017. I heard that was changing after last year.

Chris
Okay, I see...thanks for the info. Just wish they would leave Arizona alone...lol.

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· mcullumber
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285 Posts
Okay, I see...thanks for the info. Just wish they would leave Arizona alone...lol.

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The Arizona Cup has chosen not to be a WRE in 2017. This decision was not due to the USA Archery policy change, but due to the requirements that WA has asked the WRE to do. The cost for us was just too much. We decided not to be a WRE way before this policy was even discussed.
 

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Sad for the AZ Cup being no more a world ranking event. It was the only one ranking event existing in the world not limited to National team members only. And of course, no more teams from othe r countries as of the limit to the qualification round only.
By the way, not ALL countries do the same about participation limits to foreigners. Usually, international tournaments and all tournamnts registered to WA are open to international archers with no limits everywere. Limits are applied everywere of course to National Championships only, but in case they are also open, two elimination rounds are held, one for national champion titles and one as open event. In some areas it is like this also for Continental championships.
National teams selections follow very differen rules country by country, from pure qualification scores during the previous season to machplay results on specific tournamnts. Most used system is the first one mentioned, simpler to apply. For instance, Italian national teams have 3 entry ways: xxx cumulative score during 3 competitions of the previous season, getting medal at OG, WC or WC final, or by decision of the national coach. Then, budget dictates how any places for each national team are available every year.
 

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The Arizona cup was the only international ranking tournament in the USA. The rest are not ( Outdoor Nationals, Socal, Gator cup, Texas etc).

The Arizona cup may not be an international ranking tournament in 2017. I heard that was changing after last year.

Chris
That was what I was getting out of some changes in the way AZ seems to be approaching things plus this. It's not listed as WRE with WA Americas and they shifted to more like a normal USAT schedule for next year. And if the foreign archers can't advance that's another nail in it.

I enjoyed the international competition. I think at least one domestic WRE, even if it's off the USAT circuit, is to our benefit. I grant the purity that this gives AZ competition in domestic USAT terms but I think making people up their game that early in the season serves a useful purpose.

I get AZ should do what they find comfortable, right expense, etc. It's their show. But I think having something like that is beneficial.
 

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I just contacted USA-Archery and got a hold of Sheri Rhodes. She did confirm that any foreigner that has resided for more than 1 year will need a release letter from their "home" organization.

It sounded simple to her, I'm not sure it will be for the individual archer. I'm not sure what this letter would need to state, and what language. I'll see what I can get...

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· Desert Island Trading Co.
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Aizona cup was trying to do too many things in my opinion and had grown too big to put on a great tournament. Last year cutting to 63 for eliminations with more than 104 in the divison left a sour note for a lot of archers.

While i miss having a WRE event in the US that is open to any archer, i didnt like that the AZ cup was turning into a one day shoot for hundreds of archers.

Chris
 

· Grizzlee
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1,220 Posts
Do you feel this change may mean more archers shooting NFAA events?

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· Desert Island Trading Co.
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Do you feel this change may mean more archers shooting NFAA events?

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no, i think that Arizona cup will move from a must shoot tournament to a maybe shoot tournament. There are other USATs for qualifying where the field is not a full and making the elimination cuts are easier. Most will look at cost per arrow when shooting a tournament that involves travel.

I love the Arizona Cup. It was my first USAT in 2006 and second tournament ever. My first heads up match happened there, (against Wietze Van Alden), my first world ranking points ( only world ranking points). I have a warm spot in my heart for that tournament. But since 2006 it had grown to overwhelming numbers, adding cadets, became a Para qualifier, USAT qualifier, US World Team trials, Olympic trials, WRE event, etc etc etc.

A good tournament can only have so many masters.


Chris
 

· mcullumber
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285 Posts
It will be an interesting year for the AZ Cup. For the last 5 years or so we averaged about 130 International archers. I do not see that happening again. We have added the Masters category, so we will get a few to make that up. We are 1st half of one of the World Team trials (72 arrow score only), so we will get those archers. Quite frankly we do not anticipate a huge drop in participation, but we expect some. We might get a few more cadets due to being three days, not four and we have heard from some international archers who know about the new policy, but just want to come out and shoot early in the year and then do a little sight seeing in the area (they need to spend all that European vacation time they get, LOL). The Cup will continue to evolve, who knows maybe it will become independent, serving an entirely different clientele. Only time will tell.
 
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