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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I finished setting up my bow/ sight combo, checked all the levels etc and everything came out great. But today when shooting I was looking down from above and my sight looks canted way off to the left. Is this normal? or did i mess something up?
 

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I finished setting up my bow/ sight combo, checked all the levels etc and everything came out great. But today when shooting I was looking down from above and my sight looks canted way off to the left. Is this normal? or did i mess something up?
How did you check "all the levels"?
1) how did you check 1rst axis?
2) how did you check 2nd axis?
3) how did you check 3rd axis?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How did you check "all the levels"?
1) how did you check 1rst axis?
2) how did you check 2nd axis?
3) how did you check 3rd axis?
threw it in a vice and levelled the riser, held a level to the sight to check second then the scope to check 1st. then once those came out as level, tilted the bow in the vice 45 degrees rechecked riser level then adjusted the 3rd axis as needed then went to 90 and repeated, then back to 0 and made sure it was still level.
 

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threw it in a vice and levelled the riser, held a level to the sight to check second then the scope to check 1st. then once those came out as level, tilted the bow in the vice 45 degrees rechecked riser level then adjusted the 3rd axis as needed then went to 90 and repeated, then back to 0 and made sure it was still level.

When you tilt the bow in the vice to 45 degrees,
hang a plumb bob. LONG length of dental floss, hanging from the ceiling. Stand 10 feet away from the plumb bob
and bow is 5 feet behind the plumb bob, so between you and the riser, you are 15 feet away.

Confirm that the left edge of the upper and lower limb LINE UP with the plumb bob.

Your 3rd axis is not correct, cuz edges of the limb were not truly plumb (vertical), when you tilted the bow riser to point a hard 45 degrees downhill.
 

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Ditto - nailed it Alan...
 

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threw it in a vice and levelled the riser, held a level to the sight to check second then the scope to check 1st. then once those came out as level, tilted the bow in the vice 45 degrees rechecked riser level then adjusted the 3rd axis as needed then went to 90 and repeated, then back to 0 and made sure it was still level.
The riser and string are meaningless, ignore them. Set the sights vertical travel bar to be level, make the scope read level to that bar to get second axis perfect. Then, use a hamskea third axis level (or similar device) to get the third axis right at brace (this saves you a little effort). Then, finish the third axis at full draw. Check it on a good slope to confirm it. How the sight looks after this doesn’t matter. It likely won’t look right from the top if you look close (or it may look really off even if you don’t look close). That’s because of a list of things. What matters is that it hits behind the pin regardless of the slope.

Mine is the opposite of yours but pretty odd looking from above.

D
 

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The riser and string are meaningless, ignore them. Set the sights vertical travel bar to be level, make the scope read level to that bar to get second axis perfect. Then, use a hamskea third axis level (or similar device) to get the third axis right at brace (this saves you a little effort). Then, finish the third axis at full draw. Check it on a good slope to confirm it. How the sight looks after this doesn’t matter. It likely won’t look right from the top if you look close (or it may look really off even if you don’t look close). That’s because of a list of things. What matters is that it hits behind the pin regardless of the slope.

Mine is the opposite of yours but pretty odd looking from above.

D
Well, if you wanna get technical, setting sights vertical travel bar to be "level"..meaning plumb,
don't matter either.

Gotta get the sights vertical travel bar to be "level"..meaning PLUMB in the shooter's hands, while at full draw.



This is Gene Lueck's bow when HE holds his bow.
BUT, the riser ain't "LEVEL". That is correct. When Gene holds his bow, cuz his wrist is messed up,
he holds the bow with the top of bow tilted HARD to his right.

So, getting the sights vertical travel bar to be "LEVEL" will not work for Gene,
and getting the sights vertical travel bar to be "LEVEL" will not work for any shooter who tilts the bow sideways, when at full draw....either cuz they LIKE to, or cuz they HAVE to, like in Gene's case.

So, the sights vertical travel bar has GOTTA be in the shooter's hand
to check that the sight vertical travel bar is "LEVEL" while at full draw.

So, what does Gene Lueck's sights vertical travel bar LOOK LIKE, when his riser is "LEVEL"?
His sights "vertical" travel bar is FAR from vertical, when the riser is vertical.

Photograph Font Line Electric blue Screenshot


So, if the shooter has no troubles with his bow side wrist,
if the shooter CAN, is ABLE to hold the riser LEVEL (meaning vertical) no problem,
then,
the string hanging from a ceiling is the world's BEST vertical reference for when the arrow is level (check 2nd axis)
and
the string hanging from a ceiling is the world's BEST vertical reference for when the arrow is pointing 45 degrees downhill, while at full draw. The string hanging from the ceiling will make sure the shooter is NOT tilting the riser sideways LEFT, and will make sure the shooter is NOT tilting the riser sideways RIGHT,
when at full draw
when pointing the arrow 45 degrees downhill.

SKIP the string hanging from the ceiling,
you end up with this.

Font Automotive tire Motor vehicle Racing Recreation


Skip the string hanging from the ceiling,
and you can also end up with THIS.

Tire Wheel Bicycle tire Automotive tire Automotive lighting


Well, how come Gene doesn't have his scope threaded rod connection OUT of SQUARE?
Cuz, GENE has his vertical travel part of the sight DEAD level (plumb) when he is at full draw
and
he has a wedge adapter under the sight mount, to allow his bow side wrist to FUNCTION as it needs to.



So, use the string hanging from the ceiling, to make sure the SIGHT pins
are DEAD vertical, at full draw, in the hands of the shooter. You want the 2nd axis adjusted
so the SIGHT bubble READS smack dab center,
when the SIGHT PINS are vertical...however, the shooter holds the riser.

So, that string plumb bob DOES matter.
 

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You don’t have to set the sights vertical travel while at full draw either. If that’s the case , why wasn’t that stated in you instructions in the beginning Allen? You instructed incorrectly, got called out, and now reaching. 1st and 2nd axis is always done on a level , and third axis is done at full draw, just as dk_ace1 stated. When the very best shooters in the world tell how they set their sights, I think, most will travel that way. The funny part is, Allen, you tell guys in most post on sight settings, that they have to use a level string hanging, or a door jam, and come to full draw, just as stated, then in this post, you go against the last 50 threads I’ve read where you tell guys you can’t get it correct by using a vise and leaning bow over. Now you say do it. Which way is correct? I know, but you need to pick one and stay with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
it seems there's some conflicting advice, but if I'm understanding right I should do the following

Level the sights of horizontal travel (up and down) to be level.
then level the rotation of the scope to be level based off the sight body.
then hang a line and line the pin-up with the line, tilt the bow and adjust as needed.

Do I have the gist of things? Do I not still level the riser in the vice? I had thought the bow itself must be level first in order for the levelling of the sight to match the riser.
 

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It ain’t nailed, if the shooter doesn’t have the bow drawn at full draw when checking 3rd axis. Simply tilting a bow to 45 degrees and having it level with a blumbob isn’t how you set 3rd axis.
I use the bright site leveler and so far I its been accurate with the elevation and distances Im dealing with and Im a pretty competent shooter. 20ft off the ground and 30 yards out my arrows are nearly touching from ground level. I understand the pros may do it differently but theyre on another level where a half an inch off can mean the difference for them and I wouldnt even notice. Was listening to levi morgan on a podcast and he shoots in his 3rd axis in because the hamskea tool isnt accurate enough for him. If was going to be dealing with some more extreme angles and distances I would go straight to shooting to confirm level.
 

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I will start off by saying that your scope will most likely be out of square as it looks in the photo once you set your 3rd axis. Most bows twist from the cables loading up at full draw, which is a big factor in why 3rd axis comes into play. Then the archers grip comes into play and if you torque the bow in the same direction as the cables do then int will be magnified. If you torque in the opposite direction, it will cause your housing to be squarer to the bow at rest. Either way the entire point of 3rd axis is to compensate for the bow twisting at full draw and in the end, when set properly and not on a vise off of the bow, your sight head will not be square to the bow/riser at rest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will start off by saying that your scope will most likely be out of square as it looks in the photo once you set your 3rd axis. Most bows twist from the cables loading up at full draw, which is a big factor in why 3rd axis comes into play. Then the archers grip comes into play and if you torque the bow in the same direction as the cables do then int will be magnified. If you torque in the opposite direction, it will cause your housing to be squarer to the bow at rest. Either way the entire point of 3rd axis is to compensate for the bow twisting at full draw and in the end, when set properly and not on a vise off of the bow, your sight head will not be square to the bow/riser at rest.
if 3rd axis isnt set to be in lign with the riser and is instead set to the archer isnt that just tuning to meet bad form? If im shooting an incline should my riser and sight not be in line with each other's levels?
 

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it seems there's some conflicting advice, but if I'm understanding right I should do the following

Level the sights of horizontal travel (up and down) to be level.
then level the rotation of the scope to be level based off the sight body.
then hang a line and line the pin-up with the line, tilt the bow and adjust as needed.

Do I have the gist of things? Do I not still level the riser in the vice? I had thought the bow itself must be level first in order for the levelling of the sight to match the riser.
The bow does not have to be level if your sight has the adustment for it. Some sights like the Spot Hoggs have the vertical travel machined true to the bow riser and there is no adjustment. Other sights like the axcels, black golds, etc. have an adjustment for the plane of travel on the sight. Either way that particular adjustment is personal preference. Your bow does not have to be perfectly vertical in order to have your sight set correctly. The #1 most important axis adjustment on any sight is that the level is set square to the plane of travel, or on a 5 pin sight, the vertical line of the pins. This adjustment is what ensures that no matter how anything else is set, when you have the level centered, you will have a vertical line of impact and will not hit left or right due to the sight on level ground. Even if 3rd axis is way off, this will still hold true. 3rd axis only comes into affect when aiming uphill or downhill. That should be set at full draw with the person shooting the bow holding the bow. This adjustment corrects twist from the bow at full draw to ensure the level is square to the rest of the sight when aiming uphill or downhill.
 

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if 3rd axis isnt set to be in lign with the riser and is instead set to the archer isnt that just tuning to meet bad form? If im shooting an incline should my riser and sight not be in line with each other's levels?
No. If the archer has a consistent grip, all else does not matter. Set the sight to hit dead center on all uphill and downhill shots. You can have the most jacked up form and grip in the world, if you do it consistently it does not matter. In the end, the goal is to hit what you are aiming at. Why would you set the sight up true to the static position that the sight never gets used at? You would be setting the sight up to be off at full draw where you actually use it at. The only time setting 3rd axis in a vise or not at full draw becomes applicable, is when you starting aiming and shooting with your bow not at full draw. Set the 3rd axis in the state/position that 3rd axis will be used at.
 

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Well, if you wanna get technical, setting sights vertical travel bar to be "level"..meaning plumb,
don't matter either.

Gotta get the sights vertical travel bar to be "level"..meaning PLUMB in the shooter's hands, while at full draw.



This is Gene Lueck's bow when HE holds his bow.
BUT, the riser ain't "LEVEL". That is correct. When Gene holds his bow, cuz his wrist is messed up,
he holds the bow with the top of bow tilted HARD to his right.

So, getting the sights vertical travel bar to be "LEVEL" will not work for Gene,
and getting the sights vertical travel bar to be "LEVEL" will not work for any shooter who tilts the bow sideways, when at full draw....either cuz they LIKE to, or cuz they HAVE to, like in Gene's case.

So, the sights vertical travel bar has GOTTA be in the shooter's hand
to check that the sight vertical travel bar is "LEVEL" while at full draw.

So, what does Gene Lueck's sights vertical travel bar LOOK LIKE, when his riser is "LEVEL"?
His sights "vertical" travel bar is FAR from vertical, when the riser is vertical.

View attachment 7623801

So, if the shooter has no troubles with his bow side wrist,
if the shooter CAN, is ABLE to hold the riser LEVEL (meaning vertical) no problem,
then,
the string hanging from a ceiling is the world's BEST vertical reference for when the arrow is level (check 2nd axis)
and
the string hanging from a ceiling is the world's BEST vertical reference for when the arrow is pointing 45 degrees downhill, while at full draw. The string hanging from the ceiling will make sure the shooter is NOT tilting the riser sideways LEFT, and will make sure the shooter is NOT tilting the riser sideways RIGHT,
when at full draw
when pointing the arrow 45 degrees downhill.

SKIP the string hanging from the ceiling,
you end up with this.

View attachment 7623802

Skip the string hanging from the ceiling,
and you can also end up with THIS.

View attachment 7623803

Well, how come Gene doesn't have his scope threaded rod connection OUT of SQUARE?
Cuz, GENE has his vertical travel part of the sight DEAD level (plumb) when he is at full draw
and
he has a wedge adapter under the sight mount, to allow his bow side wrist to FUNCTION as it needs to.



So, use the string hanging from the ceiling, to make sure the SIGHT pins
are DEAD vertical, at full draw, in the hands of the shooter. You want the 2nd axis adjusted
so the SIGHT bubble READS smack dab center,
when the SIGHT PINS are vertical...however, the shooter holds the riser.

So, that string plumb bob DOES matter.
I’m not going to read the book you wrote here, so I won’t be addressing everything in it.

I’m well aware that the vertical travel bar does not need to be level, but the vast majority of shooters start there so I saved him the long explanation and told him to start there. If he was a shooter that already knew he wanted to build a cant into his sight, he wouldn’t be on AT asking this third axis question.

D
 

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it seems there's some conflicting advice, but if I'm understanding right I should do the following

Level the sights of horizontal travel (up and down) to be level.
then level the rotation of the scope to be level based off the sight body.
then hang a line and line the pin-up with the line, tilt the bow and adjust as needed.

Do I have the gist of things? Do I not still level the riser in the vice? I had thought the bow itself must be level first in order for the levelling of the sight to match the riser.
Not exactly. Go watch Tim Gillinghams videos on YouTube. He explains it and shows you how to do it.

The vertical travel bar does not actually have to be level, but your second axis has to be level to your vertical travel bar. Your third axis has to be adjusted at full draw or by shooting it in.

The orientation of your bow riser and string are meaningless. There will be people who tell you otherwise, they are demonstrably wrong.

D
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Not exactly. Go watch Tim Gillinghams videos on YouTube. He explains it and shows you how to do it.

The vertical travel bar does not actually have to be level, but your second axis has to be level to your vertical travel bar. Your third axis has to be adjusted at full draw or by shooting it in.

The orientation of your bow riser and string are meaningless. There will be people who tell you otherwise, they are demonstrably wrong.

D
so i should set my 1st/2nd and then just use a string plumb to set the 3rd? Are any specific videos to reference? how will i know if im canting the bow using the string method?
 
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