In my opinion there's no place on a stickbow for a Whisker Biscuit unless you have a bow with true center shot and are using a release. The lateral displacement from a finger release won't work well with a WB.

But then I don't like them on a compound either. I always tune my bows, recurve or wheelie so that there is zero contact between the arrow and the bow after release. There's no avoiding contact with a WB so you are dependent on the fletching to straighten the arrow out.

I wonder what bare shaft tuning would be like with a WB?

 

hi

my idea is to use WB as a tool / training method, to develop the feel and consistency of instinctive shooting by totally block-out aiming @ the riser's window.

even on the same bow (centershot ILF riser), the WB will be removed after the training period is gone....I think the result will transfer well on the same bow without WB n subsequent tuning...but pure thinking here only.

 

I've been shooting instinctively for 62 years...so I'm still learning...but I can say without hesitation that I have no idea where the arrow's point is in relation to the target. Through many, many bows I have never known what point on is...that would involve some referencing of the point...and again, I've never gone there and I'm not about to start now. Many folks are onboard with instinctive being a viable means to shoot under certain circumstance and within there own personal limitations...it takes a lot of arrows and either a pile of stubbornness or a natural gift to find out how instinctive can work at greater distances.

Very difficult to say much more about it, but I will say that I typically draw my bow as I'm raising it, my bow hand goes directly to "target", and it is on target before I reach full draw. That's probably 90% of the construct...and knowing a thousand ways to miss gets dumped into the equation. I relate to my bow hand as "The Director" of the shot...memory and a sense of spacial awareness provide all the "calculations". Enjoy, Rick.

 

Hi Rick, thats kinda inline with my assumption.

I shot gap, so tip awareness is very very very important to me, by putting the WB on, I will completely lose my gapping (aiming) capability---->What I left is my bow hand to guide me into the right direction, thats it --> ur method of successful instinctive shooting.

therefore Safe to say, using the WB can be a "open eye" blind bale for non instinctive shooter like me ~ to effectively develop the foundation for instinctive shooting.

Cheers~

 

Interesting idea....let me indulge myself by inflicting my opinion on everyone, as a relatively new archer, and one who shoots instinctive.

I was under the impression that instinctive shooting experience more than anything else, your subconscious doing the driving, and that nothing beats experience and a focused mind.
I figure it's a long process that involves decades of arrows, and the most important thing is that it's NOT a process that I'd want to speed up, even if I thought I could.

 

I may be way off base here, but I thought that even when shooting "instinctive" your peripheral vision picks up the arrow tip and does the gap calculation for you in a sense. So even though you aren't consciously using the tip of the arrow to "aim," your sub conscious IS using it. So taking away the vision to your tip may hinder even your instinctive shooting.

 

This ^^^^

 

My instinctive shooting relies on an intense focus and a best guess estimate of the yardage. My brain tells my bow arm to go to a certain level, and that combines with an out of focus confirmation of the arrow angle, which then triggers my release. The overall "feeling" lets me immediately know if it's a good shot, well before it gets where I wanted it to go.

 

Yea, seriously, guys that say they don't see there arrow out in front of them must be either blind, or shooting with your eyes closed. And what about the shooters that have arrows that stick out 3" beyond there actual draw length, I bet they don't see there arrow either.

Bottom line is even if you shoot "instinctively" you still need to point the bow (which holds the arrow, which means you are pointing the arrow also) at what you want to hit. If you don't it just is not going to happen.

I would say lie back and have another " couch" dream about just pointing the bow at what you want to hit, and with good form, let it happen. Like someone stated above, there are not to many shortcuts to this. Just lots of quality shots. Good luck!

Good Shooting->->->->Craig

 

What Easykeeper sed!

Since you'll never get the arrow to fly correctly with the whisker biscuit and finger release, there is nothing to be learned from putting one on the bow to begin with, NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

 

Hi all, thx for input.

https://youtu.be/SiC36hnm6aY

Found this guy shooting a WB on recurve, but he uses long arrows...So I think he is still aiming split vision with the tip.

Accuracy wise...He is using feathers on WB so kinda mess up the accuracy, but seems very acceptable.

 

I usually tread lightly on the subject because it typically does not translate well around here, which I’ll try to address momentarily.

As I often favor most experimentation I have no problem with your trying a WB. I suppose it would be fair to say, though, that I have some doubt as to its being the solution to the “problem”…which you defined as “tip awareness is very very important to me”. You are already familiar with what will be behind the biscuit…remove the biscuit and what have you…the same mental challenge you’re trying to avoid.

I would think moving targets could get you away from your fixation on the point faster than most anything else.

I’m interested in most everything archery…and what/how I practice is my choice. I was reading a piece the other day about Lajos Kassia and it was mentioned that the horseback archer uses the other side of the brain than your differently regimented archer. And it’s always obvious to me that translation of the subject at this forum is prone to failure with those who are quick to cast a negative light on instinctive shooting…because instinctive speaks from one side of the brain to an audience that listens with the other.

To a gap shooter I would think point on establishes a very important base line. To me, knowing my bow casts a hunting weight arrow 250 yards is baseline information.

As to what lies within peripheral vision…the list is countless. When I’m shooting downward from a treestand I’m not looking at my boots…on level ground I’m not looking at my watch. My focus is only on where I intend to put the arrow and, in my better moments, that focus is pinpoint. Typically though, my practice is relatively fast and loose to within what I allow as being an acceptable margin of error…and I enjoy “novelty” shooting to the max. I am a bowhunter. Taking life in an efficient manner is as serious as it gets…doing less is as sickening as it can be.

Hi all, thx for input.
Found this guy shooting a WB on recurve, but he uses long arrows...So I think he is still aiming split vision with the tip.
Accuracy wise...He is using feathers on WB so kinda mess up the accuracy, but seems very acceptable.

Reason enough to give it a try. Rick.

 

I will put this idea into test, for 3 months training with a WB on, then remove it to see if I can shoot more instinctively but not gapping.

Again the use of WB is a mean of training method to block out my aiming @ my draw n arrow length, not meant to be a permanent set up... merely a handicap setting in training to excel n amplify result @ normal setting eventually.

More like to train boxing with 22oz gloves but no one will fight with such handicap weight outta training.

Cheers.

 

Is the first time when I read that someone trains for something handicapping himself. I consider training blindfolded a good way to understand subtle things, not to learn things. An instinctive shooter is using his body as part of aiming system. Until he gets this, he will be a lousy shot - with or without WB.

 

Even if by some miracle the arrows fly some what decently, visual processing takes place. It happens regardless of how aware or conscious of it the shooter is. It happens no matter what system the shooter is using.

If the object of the "training" is to remove the sight picture, save your $ and just wear a blindfold.

 

Takes the cake.

 

When I put the sight on my bow, I get the same effect. I can't see the arrow. Arrow, whisker biscuit, bow shelf, sight, it's all a visual reference. Replacing arrow in vision with whisker biscuit in vision is not removing visual aim.

 

Why train to miss more targets thanever before? Ten yrs from now when you're an accomplished instinctive shooter, it won't be near as accurate as some form of aiming system such as split, gap, sights. I'm not trying to be smart with you, I just don't know any other way to word the question. Mark

 

u guys all make a lot of senses, thx, I will be the guinea pig to prove myself wrong.

1. just wear a blindfold----> I actually heard one method is to close the eye right after the bow hand is in place ~ hence u draw, anchor n release with closed eye, that require some range safety precautions.

2. first time when I read that someone trains for something handicapping himself ----> believe it or not, it happens very common in combat sports, we are knuckle head in some senses, haha. We often use handicapped settings to isolate n improve certain weaknesses, after that isolated part has measurable improvement, we will reverse the outcome back to normal scenarios (we call that "interval reversing", some use different names), but how much handicap we need, how to deliver that handicap, how far to go, and when to switch back is the duty of a trainer/coach.

3. Takes the cake ---> hopefully get a apple pie instead, cheers.

4. Replacing arrow in vision with whisker biscuit in vision is not removing visual aim---> wrote that down in my archery note already, thx.

 

Believe it or not, in combat sports you train for your weakness not to learn how to fight when you are including a handicap. But you know all.
If you think that your aiming system is your weakness in instinctive shooting, you are way off the tracks. But hey, you can knock yourself out and experiment split vision too.

 

I honestly don't know it all, but from time to time, I do know what I try to achieve n will try, improvise and adapt along the way. Joe Lewis said once (probably not the exact words) ~ listen n open to everything but dont trust everything as its surface or u were simply told.

It might be a bit off tropic, but the handicap setting is not "u train to fight with a handicap", its u use a handicap to overcome a weakness in training, then u take that handicap away after a calculated time.

One common example is to train boxer with a tendency becoming over-committed brawler @ infighting range / under pressure. * weakness * We will then incorporate a handicap call "Micro Punching" for him in training, since no one fight successfully/comfortably with "Micro Punching" in real life, so it is a handicap for the boxer. By doing a lot of micro punching in pressuring drills, the boxer will slowly develop a sense/habit of control n in fighting vision, instead of using the old way of roughing things up. After the trainer has noticed the boxer has results from doing micro punching, he will start removing the handicap in a control manner, n eventually took that off completely.

Back in archery, I am not saying my aiming system is a weakness of the "final" instinctive shooting, what I am saying is~~due to my style of shooting, I will probably go directly into n mainly rely on gapping, instead of the instinctive way. So In order for me to get the hand on how to shot instinctively, using WB to block out my aiming capability may be or may not be a method.

In other words, the handicap from a WB will not directly transform me into a instinctive shooter, but it will help me to shoot without gapping as a training method, once that purpose is reached, the handicap (WB) will be removed, n I will start to shot/train with a whole target picture.

 

In Fred's own words 'it could be argued that instinctive shooting' is the weakness. "... it could be argued that instinctive shooting is more dependent on doing the same thing over and over again than are any of the other styles."

If you read that and keep in mind that most instinctive shooters complain that they're lousy at longer distances, why would you practice more to be less effective? In fact, if you read Fred's whole description of shooting instinctive, it's beyond me why anyone would try it. It's like taking your brain out of the equation (to let TP sneak in, and add the swing draw - you got it).

It's really a tribute to what a great author he is. Ever read his book 'Stalking & Still-Hunting'? That is written by a great author.

Bowmania

 

that also makes sense

in real world application, shooting instinctively may be an advantage, only if u need to make a shoot under fragile, unable to focus or unable to settle. Live or die, hit or miss situation.


BTW I have the Fred Bear DVDs set off Amazon cheap last month, but haven't got to watch it yet.

 

Learning, remembering and practicing good shooting form is key.

Practicing Let-down when things don't feel right "could" improve the overall thought process.

We don't very often see this on the range these days.
It's nothing to be ashamed of since it should remind others that you or others are not worthy of letting that shot go.

Taking pride in a good draw and all the steps it takes to launch time is worth its weigth in gold.

From Al Henderson's readings

Don

 

You will gap off the WB. It's height over the arrow will actually make it more like a sight than the tip ever could be.
Just decide what your end goal for shooting is then pursue the best method to make that happen. Trying to run in multiple directions at once gets you nowhere.

 

This^^^ You will get fairly good, remove the WB and your first draw to anchor you will freak out. Your brain will realize things are vastly different and you want shoot half as good.

 

Of course all of you realize that all of this is crazy talk...right?

 

Jinks you are the incurable optimist.

 

But the important part is they won't be aware that they are gapping off the WB leaving tons of valuable focus to be better spent elsewhere.

After all?..."Aiming"...represents a very small percentage of what goes into the shot overall.