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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi fellow archers

I have had some pin float issues recently and wanted some feedback on whether it is form or just simple fatigue.

My setup is as follows:

OK DST Absolute 38, 28.5" AMO DL at ~57 lb. Symmetrical bow but I shoot LH (RH but left eye dominance).
35" Long rod angled down 10 deg, 6 oz. on the end.
15" side rods angled down and back, 6 oz on the left and 9 oz on the right.
In the pictures, my sight marks are set to 50 yards but I'm aiming at something head-height, roughly parallel with the wall I'm next to.

Couldn't find tape to put straight behind me, but there are features on the wall that are parallel with the floor. Likewise, nowhere to attach a hanging weight, but the door is vertical.

Took two pictures, from slightly different angles, can produce others if needed.

Form 2.jpg

Form 1.jpg
 

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(aka lug nut)
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Same response to all the other "how's my form threads.

Need shoes.
Need a level strip of masking tape..on the wall.
Need camera lens at YOUR shoulder height...(first photo, lens too low).
 

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(aka lug nut)
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standard response to how's my form threads...going forward.

similar issues.



photos are in time sequence.



Door keeps you honest (stand up straight) using edge of the door.







WHERE o WHERE did I put that door?
 

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Socket Man
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I see two things in your form that I would tweek:

1. Your foot placement is weird, you are trying to use a open stance but instead of doing it naturally you have the rear foot pointing back and the front leg is moved to create the open stance. Stand normal and look straight out over your sternum, then look over your right shoulder. Now turn your head so that you are looking over your right nipple and this is the angle that you shoot from when shooting a open stance. Your feet don't move, your feet should be in the same natural position as if you were looking straight ahead over your sternum.

So to set your feet when you get on the shooting line you basically look over your nipple and the target should be right there.

2. Your grip on the bow is way to deep into your life line.

Now to me these two little issues can be fixed in minutes and you are then going to have pretty good form, I didn't really see any really big issues, I do like the second picture better. I do have a feeling that your poor float is more of a firing engine and aiming issue for you, when shooting a thumb trigger it is easy to loose your float pattern because you aren't really running a firing engine that runs smoothly and generates rotation in the thumb trigger to fire it. If you have any bad tension in your system that is trying to time itself with the pin being perfect and then quickly firing the release then you have found your problem. I do have a good firing engine on my website that you can use that is really easy to learn and some shooting form articles that explain form and grip and front arm.

Just go to my website by doing a google search for:

padgettarchery blog
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Same response to all the other "how's my form threads.

Need shoes.
Need a level strip of masking tape..on the wall.
Need camera lens at YOUR shoulder height...(first photo, lens too low).
Sure. I'll find some tape and re-do the picture. My shoulder height for the image, got it. And one of me without the bow. Will post ASAP.

I see two things in your form that I would tweek:

1. Your foot placement is weird, you are trying to use a open stance but instead of doing it naturally you have the rear foot pointing back and the front leg is moved to create the open stance. Stand normal and look straight out over your sternum, then look over your right shoulder. Now turn your head so that you are looking over your right nipple and this is the angle that you shoot from when shooting a open stance. Your feet don't move, your feet should be in the same natural position as if you were looking straight ahead over your sternum.

So to set your feet when you get on the shooting line you basically look over your nipple and the target should be right there.

2. Your grip on the bow is way to deep into your life line.

Now to me these two little issues can be fixed in minutes and you are then going to have pretty good form, I didn't really see any really big issues, I do like the second picture better. I do have a feeling that your poor float is more of a firing engine and aiming issue for you, when shooting a thumb trigger it is easy to loose your float pattern because you aren't really running a firing engine that runs smoothly and generates rotation in the thumb trigger to fire it. If you have any bad tension in your system that is trying to time itself with the pin being perfect and then quickly firing the release then you have found your problem. I do have a good firing engine on my website that you can use that is really easy to learn and some shooting form articles that explain form and grip and front arm.

Just go to my website by doing a google search for:

padgettarchery blog
1) My feet are really inconsistent when I go to shoot at the line, I've noticed this and it drives me crazy, can't seem to stop my back foot from wandering like you say.

2) This is an issue, I thought my grip wasn't too bad. Do I need to rotate my knuckles around more towards 12 o clock?

Thanks for the heads up, I have your hinge guide already for when I have the time to get to grips with that release type. I will check that out as well as your grip guide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
With tape behind (horizontal, checked with spirit level) and shoes on...

Aiming to keep arrow level with tape.

Form 3.jpg

Form 4.jpg
 

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The pointy end...
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9/10 people on here will tell you that you have "too much hand in the grip" if you grip the bow like Pete Shepley did in that video.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Experimenting with a different grip, same grip from two angles:

Form hand 1.jpg

Form hand 2.jpg

I think the low grip on the DST38 makes the bow pull in towards the bottom of the hand but there's not much pressure there, it's mainly on the 'thumb muscle' like this.

I'll do a shot at the edge of a door or wall and upload.
 

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9/10 people on here will tell you that you have "too much hand in the grip" if you grip the bow like Pete Shepley did in that video.
Shepley has it right..watch it again.

one of the dangers of going online and asking for advice is you have no idea whom is giving you advice. And that was pointed out to me by a Bowtech rep/factory shooter.

I was reading an article and industry insiders say about 75% of the advice given online is actually incorrect. Nuts and Bolts stuff on form is pretty good-its also fairly common knowledge btw..
 

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The pointy end...
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Shepley has it right..watch it again.

one of the dangers of going online and asking for advice is you have no idea whom is giving you advice. And that was pointed out to me by a Bowtech rep/factory shooter.

I was reading an article and industry insiders say about 75% of the advice given online is actually incorrect. Nuts and Bolts stuff on form is pretty good-its also fairly common knowledge btw..
I agree with Shepley on the grip.
My point was exactly the same as yours, many people just take one common advice (draw length, nock position, grip) from one thread to the next, wether it actually applies or not.

I think OP's grip looks good. I also have the bow right on the lifeline on my hand, people on this forum told me I had too much hand in the grip.
To me, the most important thing is to find something comfortable and repeatable. Then I try to minize the torque on the grip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Right, here's the wall one:

Form 5.jpg

Please don't ask me for any more just now as my fiancée will kill me lol.

Trying to clean up foot position now.
 

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Now find the edge of a door.
Nuts&Bolts, I keep hijacking threads with some question inbetween your advice. Sorry! I know you say use a door, pole, corner of a wall, etc, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is it to square the shooter with the horizontal tape references marks to then get a true feel for where their form is high or low? Also, what should I be doing on the corner/door/pole? Putting my spine on it? Putting my foot against it and then making sure my entire body touches it all the way up to my deltoids/scapula?
 

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(aka lug nut)
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Nuts&Bolts, I keep hijacking threads with some question inbetween your advice. Sorry! I know you say use a door, pole, corner of a wall, etc, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is it to square the shooter with the horizontal tape references marks to then get a true feel for where their form is high or low? Also, what should I be doing on the corner/door/pole? Putting my spine on it? Putting my foot against it and then making sure my entire body touches it all the way up to my deltoids/scapula?
Door edge photo



Same fella, with out the HELP of the door edge.



Same fella, with the HELP of the door edge.



SAme fella, with out the HELP of the door edge.



"what exactly are you trying to accomplish?"

Can you see what I am trying to accomplish?
 

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(aka lug nut)
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This fella had a GREAT deal of difficulty with what I was trying to "accomplish"
with edges of doors
with poles
with outside corners of wall
with door trim/ door jambs...

the light bulb FINALLY went of
when I said the GOAL is EQUAL weight on both legs.

He came up with the idea of TWO bathroom scales.
ONE bathroom scale was very low profile
so he needed SPACER blocks under ONE boot
to get BOTH bottoms of the boots at the SAME height.

TWO bathroom scales
for folks who have EXTREME difficulty with the concept
of "what I am trying to accomplish"...

with the edge of a door
with the outside corner of a wall
with a pole
with the door jamb.
 

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Can you see what I am trying to accomplish?
Sure, you want him to stand up straight, legs straight, spine straight. But after he's standing straight, is there something else you're observing? Or are you just doing it to teach the archer what standing up straight feel like?
 

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(aka lug nut)
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Nuts&Bolts, I keep hijacking threads with some question inbetween your advice. Sorry! I know you say use a door, pole, corner of a wall, etc, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Is it to square the shooter with the horizontal tape references marks to then get a true feel for where their form is high or low? Also, what should I be doing on the corner/door/pole? Putting my spine on it? Putting my foot against it and then making sure my entire body touches it all the way up to my deltoids/scapula?
MORE examples of what I am trying to "accomplish".



Hence
the THOUSANDS of How's my form threads...
where you see the SAME syndrome
again and again and again and again and again.







MORE examples.

AT some point,
folks will figure it out
COMPLETELY by themselves

to find a door (the edge)
to find an outside corner of a wall
to find a POLE





 
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