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I am interested in purchasing a very very fast recurve but haven’t a clue of what to buy. Too many companies and models out there. I am fairly new to this sport and am shooting instinctively. Just discovered 3D and assume that a fast bow will give me a flatter trajectory for those far shots through the trees. I have no desire to hunt! Being the left handed I am not able to try out bows from other shooters (so far have not found any left handed) or the local Pro-Shops (don’t carry left handed products). Guys at the local range have told me to consider a Hoyt Gamemaster or a Chek-Mate TD Hunter. Hope to get some ideas from this forum….

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Chek-Mates aren't the fastest bow on the market, but they aren't meant to be. The average shooter can't control a bow that is built just for speed. They are fast, but not the absolute fastest--they are built to be forgiving also. If you are looking just for a target bow, and want a Chek-Mate, look at the Sabre take-down.

A faster bow will give you a little flatter trajectory, but ultimately it's up to the shooter. Last year a fellow won the Men's Longbow class at Cloverdale shooting a Hill style longbow he built himself--there were much, much faster bows out there.

Chad
 

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Wells -

Speed without shootability is next to useless.

If you think you need that much speed, there are only two right now that fit the bill, IMHO.

Warf bows by Bob Gordon are compound risers with FITA limbs and a trick or two thrown in for good luck, and fairly reasonably price.

DAS bows are probably king of the hill right now. Custom riser by David Sosa and again FITA limbs, of your choice.

Both gentleman are super people to deal with and know the game inside and out. Both can be found at www.tradtalk.com.

Hoyt makes a great bow, and the GM is no exception, but it's not in the same class as the two above.

Viper1 out.
 

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Give Bruce at Chaparral Archery a call. He makes a one piece 50's style recurve called the "Alpine", which was designed by John Fazio, of Sovereign Archery. Only thing better than its speed, is the quietness of these bows. I just ordered my 3rd one yesterday.....You can reach him at 1-505 772-5522, or check him out on the www. He may have a lefty in stock

I should add that he is a friendly and generous man.
 

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The Black Swan Carbon Classic Hybrid will deliver the total performance package.

Arvid Danielson, the bowyer is a southpaw, himself... and the holder of the world's record for the most RobinHoods in 24 hours (347, on 7/28/85), was a member of the 1980 National Team (as an alternate), shot the first perfect 300 PAA round (and backed it up on the very next round with another).

In other words, Arvid understands performance.

BLACK SWAN CARBON CLASSICS

NOTE: See also the current thread on this forum "Recurve vs. Longbow" (page 2).


Sackett
 

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Try an "international limb fitting" type riser (such as a Hoyt Gold Medalist) with a set of Win&Win XQ-1 Synergy Foam Carbon limbs. They are so fast it's like shooting a bow that is 4-5lbs heavier than the marked weight, but without the effort of having to draw that extra weight.
 

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Head to head in 3D, I don't think there's anything out there that can touch a DAS Kinetic or Warfbow. Speeds over 200 fps at comfortable draw weights under 50 pounds are normal for draws of 27 inches or longer and both the Warfs and DAS Kinetics are unbelievably shootable with zero hand shock and you would have to shoot one to understand just how forgiving and accurate they are.

You can find lots of discussions on Warf bows and DAS Kinetics at www.TradTalk.com and you can go directly to the DAS Kinetic website at www.kineticbows.com.

The guys there are also talking about the Quinn bows being extremely shootable but at prices that are actually so low they make people wonder what "the catch" is. From the guys who have shot them, there doesn't appear to be "a catch".
 

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Warfs and the DAS's are nice bows, no argument.

But the Black Swan Longbow is performing at over 200fps (AMO), and the Hybrid... a good bit quicker than that (AMO).

And they are wonderfully spine tolerant, while retaining the smooth, sweet, quiet shooting a person needs for "total" performance. So you can shoot your "3-D" weight shafts and have as flat a trajectory as any bow without wheels. Then move up to your hunting weight shafts... and still send them sweet and true... with a trajectory as flat as most bows 10 lbs. heavier in draw weight.

If you want a WARF or DAS, go for it. You can't go wrong with their quality or performance.

But they ain't the only "Ferraris" on the block (and yes, that includes ease of draw, quiet, smooth and shock-free release... and deadly accuracy).


These are indeed the "good ol' days" of quality bows!


As Always;

Sackett
 

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Fast stick bows

I have owned Black Widows . Bob Lees , Rocky Mountain recurves, Brackenberry recurves , Fox recurves, A morrison ACS, Big Horn Recurve, Cascade recurve, Fedora Recurve, Horne recurve (fastest of the above with ACS) Hummingbird recurve, Martin Hunter , Carroll Recurve,Brown Recluse (very Fast but noisy)Bill Stewart Cam Limb Bows, and others including factory bows I don't instantly recall pronghorn, Tomahawk long bow . Golden Super Shrew, and others I can't recall and none are as fast or as smooth as the 2 Centaur (Little Mag) 56" bow with Bamboo cores and yew laminates. I have chronographed The faster of the above and none are as fast. I shoot split fingered with a seal skin tab 28" 720 grain arrows. For an old recurve shooter (me) I just can't reliably get the same grip on a straight longbow grip. The Centaur comes with finger grooves and is a hybrid and is the quietest bow I can recall shooting and I shoot it as accurately as any recurve I have ever shot.Accuracy first, speed second (for hunting quiet is second) There are many fine bows . no one can shoot them all and each of our shooting techniques make some bows shootable , others not. Some bowers will let you shoot the bows before purchasing with a deposit. I have visited several and shot many of theirs. All were Gentlemen and a credit tko our sport. ( forgot Navajo 21st Century. That is my 2 cents gleaned over 36 years
 

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Evenin' Dr. Herrera,

How's that little ACS working for you?

The Horne found a good home in Wyoming last week!

Good to "see" you...


Sackett
 

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If the bows were measured in FPS per Dollar, the Quinn would be the fastest/best deal on the planet! Unfortunately, the Quinn Stallion does not come in a left handed model. The Quinn Longhorn is the wooden risered version of the Stallion and probably comes in LH. 2 of them are going to be tested real soon. At $275, the Longhorn is still a great buy.

Quinn's and Warf's are great buys and fast bows, the DAS is the elite super bow.

Hank
 

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Reply to Sackett

The Acs WAS QUICK AND smooth but I could not shoot it with a straight grip. It found a good home in Phoenix where it is much appreciated. Bring your Black Swan down when we deer hunt I am going to want to chronograph it against my Centaur.I hoppe he comes out with a grip friendly to recurve or lets me shape the grip,
 

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Most all of the opinions here are right-on with the speed thing and the type of bows listed. Yes, I've heard Fazio builds a barn-burner of a recurve. If you are looking for shootability coupled with speed, I would agree that the DAS Kinetic, Warfed recurves, Hoyt Gamemaster, and even the Quinn are very good candidates. Why do I say this? Well, maybe I didn't read all of the posts in their entirety, but the main thing about getting speed is a result of the gr/lb arrow weight. Get down arround 6-7 gr/lb and you've got yourself one speedster bow. In most cases, a metal-risered bow is the one that will provide the best shootability with extremely light-weight arrows because of the rigidity in the riser. Who cares about noise if you're only shooting 3-D targets? Those foam deer aren't gonna run away when they hear your bow two targets before you get there... unless of course you go for the DAS Kenetic. I've heard they are the most quiet, vibration-free bow when shooting faster-than-lightning arrow weights.
 

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Cronie Speed Tested

IF you are looking for speed at a good price to shoot 3ds the gamemaster is a great bow. I own two of them and have had a total of 4 checkmates as well. fact --- my 50lb gamemaster hoyt at 29 inch draw with a light speed arrow at about 380 grains ran an amazing 247 fps and that was a total of 6 arrows just to make sure that it was working properly, and it was as we tested some other bows as well at the same time which we knew the speeds of in advance. This bow also shoots off the shelf which is how I shoot them as rules up here state you have to in trad , no rest allowed, remmeber to each his own, this bow is a joy to shoot and I hope you have the chance to try one before you buy anything else. A heated discussion was voiced on these bows about metal and wood risers before, I own a total of about 20 trad bows all makes and models and they all shoot great, remember its who`s behind the string. HAVE FUN
 

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BW recurves are fast enough, but they aren't among the fastest--they are pretty much average with any other well made recurve. The Palmers, or at least certain ones, are faster. I only know of one head-to-head test, and the Palmer came out about 15 fps faster than the BW. Still not a huge amount though.

Chad
 

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Chad,

According to a test done in Bowhunting World..

an BW MA2 60lbs 30" 540 gr arrow=197fps

That's fast...for a recurve...
It depends on what you consider to be fast. That's a lot faster than I could throw a rock, but it's not fast compared to the better recurves on the market--it's very average.

What kind of string were they using for that test (material, number of strands), what did it have on it (serving size, length, silencers, etc), and what kind of release was used (tab, glove, shooting machine, or?). All of this can make a difference in speed. I've heard about and read about several "tests", but most were done with everything that could be done in favor of a few more fps, not a real world situation. The difference in the tests and the real world is invariably going to be several fps.

I average 187 fps with my longbow, drawing it 30.5" with a 14 strand Dynaflight '97 string on it, over 8" of .025 #62 Braid serving, and a full set of cat whisker silencers, shooting fingers with a glove. My arrows weighed approximately 9.5 grains per lb. With a stripped down string and a cleaner release, my longbow would shoot as fast as that BW recurve, and my bow is not an Adcock or Black Swan--shoot, it doesn't even have any carbon in it and it's not one of the more radical hybrids.

I don't think there is anything out there that will just completely blow the BW out of the water, but there are faster bows, and that's what the guy was asking about.

Btw, I've shot several BW recurves and had two myself. They are nice enough, but obviously they aren't the bow for everyone. I didn't like them nearly as much as you do. I really like Chek-Mate bows, and the original poster mentioned one in his first post, but they aren't one of the speed demons either--they will hang right with a BW, but there are bows that are somewhat faster.

Chad
 

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Border

My Border will come very close to matching the posted #'s for that Widow, with a 515gr arrow, but only about 52/53 lbs @30.25"...

That's with an 18-strand FF and .021" serving and cat whiskers...

Take her down to a true 9gr/lb and she'll easily break 200 at 52lbs...

It's a 62" Black Douglas with the long (21") riser, and specially made XP10 limbs with XP30 carbon cores.

Pricey? Yes! Hard to find? Yes... Worth it? YES!

Other than that, I'd like to try a DAS or a Warf...but I'll have some vague idea about Warf performance hopefully later this year when I mate some ILF limbs up to some risers that I've made (they're wood, but will give me the general idea, and I can set one up for the wife pretty cheap...)

Anyway, what has been stated before is true: POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!!

If that "fast" curve shoots with the characteristics of a bronco bucking in midair, the speed is worth absolutely ZIP!

Speed combined with smooth characteristics is what should be looked for, along with a comfortable grip, but those are just my criteria...along with bamboo or carbon cores or lam's...

Good luck with your search...
Marc
 
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