[Black Stim]

Surely someone out there must have some experience with how the Allegiance groups. Any update on group at 20, 30 and 40? My dealer claims that if you put virtually any bow in a Hooter Shooter, they will shoot the same hole shot after shot. I find this a little hard to believe, as this would make all of the efforts target shooters strive for a waste of time, which I don't believe is the case.

 

[Silver Dingo]

dont worry stim. the regulars will be all over this one soon telling you how its the most accurate bow they have ever shot and how you can shoot flys off a pigs arse at 150 yards with it. Just like they did last year. Noone one a damn thing with those ones either.

 

[bowmanhunter]

Well SFA, here it goes I really liked the way the Allegiance shot. And yes I bought one. Very nice bow

 

[500 fps]

And you'll also get the usual blatherings of Matt's sycophants taking pot shots.

FYI,,,,, The past tense of the infinitive "to win" is "won".

One is a number.

Matt should have his loyal lackeys take an English proficiency test before trying to represent the company.

 

[RobVos]

Your dealer is correct about the Hooter Shooter thing. All bows are simply machines that do one thing return to their starting position. If the arrows are the same, they will all put them in the same hole out of a machine -- even out of tune bows.

The big difference is how the bow fits the person and how comfortable they are in repeating their form. Some bows geometry make them harder for some people to get consistent with, while others lend to a more consistent form for some people.

So asking about accuracy of a bow is all relative to the shooter. I can garauntee that the bow is truely accurate if shot from a machine. Some guys will shoot a certain bow really well, while others can't shot that bow as well.

If you are really concerned about being accurate, the bow has little little to do with it -- they can all be shot acurately. Money well spent is in high quality arrows and a good coach.

New bows are nice, but the main differences in them are in feel and fit to the archer, noit accuracy.

 

[Hunter440]

RobVos is right--

I own a hooter shooter and you can take a bow that most of us would think is junk (old and worn out) and shoot one hole with it.

Sad to say---when we miss---its not the bow.

 

[Black Stim]

Thanks for the help

So, if it is the archer, not the bow that determines accuracy, even on an out of time bow, why do people worry so much about cam lean, cam timing, nock travel etc? Aside from things that make you hold your bow steadier, and correct bad form, why do people spend so much time fixing these other problems. I would think that correcting cam lean couldn't fix inconsistensies with the shooter. I'm still relatively new to archery and am trying to figure out how much to worry about ALL the aspects of accuracy. I worried about all the atributes of accuracy when developing handloads for my 7mm STW, and did finally get it to punch 1/4" groups at 100 yards, but not without spending a lot of money!

 

[Hunter440]

People are not machines.
Bows are.
If you do the same thing with a bow it will repeat the same thing every time.

The problem comes into play when you put the bow into a human hand. Most of us cannot to it EXACTLY the same every time. Thus a little cam lean can affect the shot because the bow is not drawn the same every time when shot by a human.
When shooting out of a machine cam lean or other problems are not a factor because the machine shoots the shot EXACTLY the same every time.

You mention your rifle. When chronographing a bow there is normally less than one FPS difference from shot to shot. Seldom if ever do you get that type of consistency with a firearm.

When we talk about a hooter shooter shooting “one hole” this can be done quite easy if you shoot the same arrow over and over.
When you start mixing arrows you often see where one arrow will not go into the same hole with others. That one arrow will however go into “Its” same hole over and over.

Frankly I feel that far to much time is spent on tinkering with equipment.

What makes a winner is someone who can aim and execute the shot the same way —every time.
Its not about equipment. Its about aiming.

 

[walks with a gi]

I've shot my Allegiance quite a bit now and it's as accurate as I can hold it, as quiet as most single cam bows, faster than almost anything out there with a 7 inch brace height and VERY easy to tune.
Granted, I'm not a world class target archer, world traveler or brand bashing unit like SFA, but I could probably kill a deer with stick and a 5 dollar banjo if I had to.
I like the Allegiance for a hunting bow and would probably go with the Old Glory for 3D'.

 

[G-Man]

So, if it is the archer, not the bow that determines accuracy, even on an out of time bow, why do people worry so much about cam lean, cam timing, nock travel etc? Aside from things that make you hold your bow steadier, and correct bad form, why do people spend so much time fixing these other problems.


One word comes to mind Mr. Black "Forgiveness"

 

[Silver Dingo]

Bingo gman. Most companys have spent a lifetime devising ways to eliminate these issues and for good reason. Level nock travel, Lateral stability and good design all add up to a much bigger tuning sweetspot in a bow.
Each time you detract from these principles you erode the tunability of a bow.
A modern well made bow is very tolerant of spine and minor tuning issues. Those that do not measure can still be tuned and shot well but in my experience it takes a far more knowledgable archer to get the best from them. I have owned bows that were as critical to spine as a finger shot recurves and all because of issues like cam lean etc.
I have never seen cam lean improve either, Once it is there it can only get worse over time. I have seen bows that eventually spit the string off the eccentric as the cam just leaned further as time progresed.
Modern limb technology will slow the process but it will eventually happen nonetheless.