[HyperM3]

Got a new bow set up with my first blade rest(AAE Freakshow) yesterday. Guy was telling me about moving the rest in and out to torque tune.

Doesnt this also adjust the brace height? Right now I have the rest all the way back and my assumption would be that it is making the brace height as short as possible. Isnt the whole idea to have a long brace height?

Also, wouldnt I want the rest to be as far forward as possible so the arrow is on the rest being guided for the longest amount of time possible?

 

[TNMAN]

Got a new bow set up with my first blade rest(AAE Freakshow) yesterday. Guy was telling me about moving the rest in and out to torque tune.

Doesnt this also adjust the brace height? Right now I have the rest all the way back and my assumption would be that it is making the brace height as short as possible. Isnt the whole idea to have a long brace height?

Also, wouldnt I want the rest to be as far forward as possible so the arrow is on the rest being guided for the longest amount of time possible?

Not if you understand the definition of brace height and how it is measured.

How do I measure brace height?

I want to know how to measure brace height. Specifically on a Bowtech BTX 31. Do I measure from the front of the riser about center height of the grip? I'm gonna put a new string and cable on tonight and I've never done it so I want to make sure I have it in spec. thanks

www.archerytalk.com

Highly recommend torque tuning as a method to reduce group size. There will be a sweet spot.

 

[HyperM3]

Not if you understand the definition of brace height and how it is measured.

How do I measure brace height?

I want to know how to measure brace height. Specifically on a Bowtech BTX 31. Do I measure from the front of the riser about center height of the grip? I'm gonna put a new string and cable on tonight and I've never done it so I want to make sure I have it in spec. thanks

www.archerytalk.com

Highly recommend torque tuning as a method to reduce group size. There will be a sweet spot.

I always thought that was exactly how brace height was measured, not sure why I got thrown off. But what about the other point? Dont I want the arrow to be on the rest as long as possible to guarantee the straightest path?

 

["TheBlindArcher"]

I always thought that was exactly how brace height was measured, not sure why I got thrown off. But what about the other point? Dont I want the arrow to be on the rest as long as possible to guarantee the straightest path?

Not really; torque tuning, in it's simple form, is finding a point where your sight pins, you're rest, and the yaw point [torquing left/right], align such that the arrow deviates the least amount if/when you torque a shot. If the rest is too far forward/back, torquing moves the arrow off line, but there is [generally] a rest setting where torquing doesn't angle the arrow off course. This point works with a point the sight is set where torquing the bow still allows for the aim/arrow flight remain constant.

 

[HyperM3]

Not really; torque tuning, in it's simple form, is finding a point where your sight pins, you're rest, and the yaw point [torquing left/right], align such that the arrow deviates the least amount if/when you torque a shot. If the rest is too far forward/back, torquing moves the arrow off line, but there is [generally] a rest setting where torquing doesn't angle the arrow off course. This point works with a point the sight is set where torquing the bow still allows for the aim/arrow flight remain constant.

Oh yes, I completely understand the whole idea behind torque tuning. I guess my actual question is why wasnt I set up with the rest completely forward at first? Granted I was shooting bullet holes with fletched and bareshafts before I left. Maybe Im looking too much into it.

 

[nuts&bolts]

I always thought that was exactly how brace height was measured, not sure why I got thrown off. But what about the other point? Dont I want the arrow to be on the rest as long as possible to guarantee the straightest path?

No.

Torque tuning is finding the instantaneous center of rotation.
The WHAT?

If you move your arrow rest, ANY arrow rest MAXIMUM distance forwards,
when you on PURPOSE torque the bow sideways LEFT (twist wrist)
then, when you swing your bow arm to get the sight back on the bullseye, with wrist torqued to point the front stab crooked left...

the arrow rest will steer the arrow crooked left, and you will miss left, even though the sight was on the bullseye.

Watch this video of Paige Pearce demonstrating torque tuning,
and you will better understand,
why the blade rest MAX forwards is no good
and
why the blade rest MAX rear-wards (closest to your face) is also no good.

FIND the sweet spot (fore-aft position) for your arrow rest, ANY arrow rest
and you will tighten your long distance groups.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Oh yes, I completely understand the whole idea behind torque tuning. I guess my actual question is why wasnt I set up with the rest completely forward at first? Granted I was shooting bullet holes with fletched and bareshafts before I left. Maybe Im looking too much into it.

YOU have to spend the time for torque tuning.
NO pro shop is gonna spend the time watching you torque tune YOUR bow and YOUR arrow rest.

Bullet holes have ZERO to do with torque tuning.
Most folks are torque tuning at 60 yards. Not a chance there was a 60 yd range at your pro shop.

 

[HyperM3]

No.

Torque tuning is finding the instantaneous center of rotation.
The WHAT?

If you move your arrow rest, ANY arrow rest MAXIMUM distance forwards,
when you on PURPOSE torque the bow sideways LEFT (twist wrist)
then, when you swing your bow arm to get the sight back on the bullseye, with wrist torqued to point the front stab crooked left...

the arrow rest will steer the arrow crooked left, and you will miss left, even though the sight was on the bullseye.

Watch this video of Paige Pearce demonstrating torque tuning,
and you will better understand,
why the blade rest MAX forwards is no good
and
why the blade rest MAX rear-wards (closest to your face) is also no good.

FIND the sweet spot (fore-aft position) for your arrow rest, ANY arrow rest
and you will tighten your long distance groups.

Ive watched quite a few videos on torque tuning before but they were all about finding the best position for a dovetail sight. If you only have a fixed rest(like a drop-away) then how do you torque tune for it? Since I have both an adjustable rest AND a dovetail sight, am I torque tuning twice now for both?

 

[nuts&bolts]

Ive watched quite a few videos on torque tuning before but they were all about finding the best position for a dovetail sight. If you only have a fixed rest(like a drop-away) then how do you torque tune for it? Since I have both an adjustable rest AND a dovetail sight, am I torque tuning twice now for both?

You can torque tune an arrow rest, where the arrow rest frame has a slot, where you can slide the arrow rest forwards or backwards.

So, if you have a FIXED rest, where you have set holes to bolt the arrow rest a fixed distance from your face..
you cannot torque tune this arrow rest.

THIS is a drop away arrow rest.

This drop away arrow rest has a LONG horizontal slot. You loosen the lock down bolt
and you SLIDE the drop away arrow rest forwards or backwards to find the sweet spot,
like Paige Pearce demonstrates in her video.

 

[nuts&bolts]

AAE Freakshow blade rest. LONG horizontal slot, that allows you to adjust the fore-aft position of the blade rest
so you can find your personal sweet spot, like Paige Pearce demonstrates,
when shooting 60 yard groups, to torque tune your blade rest, so the sideways miss pattern at 60 yards
is shrunk down SIGNIFICANTLY.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Ive watched quite a few videos on torque tuning before but they were all about finding the best position for a dovetail sight. If you only have a fixed rest(like a drop-away) then how do you torque tune for it? Since I have both an adjustable rest AND a dovetail sight, am I torque tuning twice now for both?

Have not seen any drop away arrow rests that are "fixed".
SOme hunting sights have "fixed holes", some hunting sights will not slide forwards or aft.

This hunting sight has fixed holes to mount the sight farther from your face, or to mount the sight closer to your face.
This hunting sight cannot "slide" forwards or aft (closer to your face),
so you cannot TORQUE tune this hunting sight.

This is a target sight, with the sliding dovetail horizontal rail. This target sight can be torque tuned, cuz you can adjust the sight forwards or aft (closer to your face). YES there are dimples, but you can slide the target sight in between dimples and lock down the fore-aft position for torque tuning.

 

[HyperM3]

Have not seen any drop away arrow rests that are "fixed".
SOme hunting sights have "fixed holes", some hunting sights will not slide forwards or aft.

View attachment 7645748

This hunting sight has fixed holes to mount the sight farther from your face, or to mount the sight closer to your face.
This hunting sight cannot "slide" forwards or aft (closer to your face),
so you cannot TORQUE tune this hunting sight.

View attachment 7645749

This is a target sight, with the sliding dovetail horizontal rail. This target sight can be torque tuned, cuz you can adjust the sight forwards or aft (closer to your face). YES there are dimples, but you can slide the target sight in between dimples and lock down the fore-aft position for torque tuning.

Yeah, I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Main question.....I have Freakshow rest and Achieve XP dovetail sight. Do I have to torque tune for both separately? If so, which one do I focus on first?

 

[nuts&bolts]

Yeah, I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Main question.....I have Freakshow rest and Achieve XP dovetail sight. Do I have to torque tune for both separately? If so, which one do I focus on first?

Play with the arrow rest. Very simple. Loosen the lock down bolt. Slide the blade rest max distance away from your face. Shoot 60 yards, like Paige Pearce, a a group of arrows with your normal form.

Now, twist the front stab to the left (bend wrist). SWING bow arm to get the crooked left wrist, so the sight pin is back on target. Maybe you twist the wrist so the stab weight is 2-inches crooked left. Shoot a group at 60 yards. This group will miss the bullseye to the LEFT. Pretty obvious.

Now, twist the front stab to the right (bend wrist). SWING bow arm to get the crooked right wrist, so the sight pin is back on target. Shoot a group at 60 yards. This group will miss the bullseye to the RIGHT. AGain. Pretty obvious.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Yeah, I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Main question.....I have Freakshow rest and Achieve XP dovetail sight. Do I have to torque tune for both separately? If so, which one do I focus on first?

So, loosen the lock down bolt for the blade rest. Now, slide the blade rest MAX distance closest to your face. Shoot 60 yards, just like Paige Pearce. Shot a group at 60 yards, with your normal form.

Now, twist the front stab to the left (bend wrist). SWING bow arm to get the crooked left wrist, so the sight pin is back on target. Maybe you twist the wrist so the stab weight is 2-inches crooked left. Shoot a group at 60 yards.

THIS TIME, the group will miss the bullseye to the RIGHT. Not so obvious. Not a trick. Your wrist is NOT the pivot point of the bow arm system. Cuz, you are connected to the grip of your bow at the WEB of your hand, between the thumb and index finger.

When the arrow rest is BEHIND the "sweet spot of rotation", the arrow will impact in the OPPOSITE direction
of where you torque the front stab/riser.

 

[nuts&bolts]

Yeah, I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Main question.....I have Freakshow rest and Achieve XP dovetail sight. Do I have to torque tune for both separately? If so, which one do I focus on first?

Now that you see the pretty OBVIOUS effects, when you torque the riser/front stab with the arrow rest MAX distance away from your face (forwards position)...

now that you see the NOT so OBVIOUS effects, when you torque the riser/front stab with the arrow rest CLOSEST as possible to your face (aft position)...

now, just do what Paige Pearce does
and slide your blade rest MORE forwards, away from your face, by the 1/8th inch
and watch your sideways miss pattern,
when you torque the riser/front stab CROOKED left and CROOKED RIGHT
watch your sideways miss pattern at 60 yards, GET smaller and Smaller and SMALLER...it's like MAGIC
when you do this exercise.

 

[HyperM3]

@nuts&bolts So after I dial in the rest, I do it all again for the sight.

 

["TheBlindArcher"]

Yeah, I think this is getting blown way out of proportion. Main question.....I have Freakshow rest and Achieve XP dovetail sight. Do I have to torque tune for both separately? If so, which one do I focus on first?

You have to work both math the same time; if your sight doesn't adjust fore/aft, you are stuck with moving the rest, and the possibility you might not get the best results, but ultimately torque tuning is finding the best relationship between the sight, the rest, and the pivot axis of the torque. Sometimes, one wants the sight ring and the peep to line up concentrically, so more movements of the rest become necessary; sometimes one runs out of adjustment of the rest, and the sight needs to move more; it's all about finding the best balance for your set up.

Take me for example... no sights, but I can still get a reasonable torque tune just by moving the rest. It's not perfect, but it's as good as I can get it for my skill level

There are some YouTube out there, don't remember by who or the titles, that get in depth with what adjustments to make depending on the POIs of your torque testing.

 

[nuts&bolts]

@nuts&bolts So after I dial in the rest, I do it all again for the sight.

The same process. You can play with the sight and move the sight MAX distance away from your face.
The problem with playing with the sight, is that the scope housing outer rim, will be SUPER TINY inside your peep aperture, and the "halo" the gap between the inside edge of the peep and the outer rim of the scope housing,
this GAP will be large, and your accuracy will suffer.

Then, the problem with moving the sight as CLOSE as possible to your face,
maybe the outer rim of the scope housing will be LARGER than your inside edge of the peep.

SO, play with torque tuning on the arrow rest
and find the "MAGIC" sweet spot for fore-after position of the arrow rest, like in the Paige Pearce video.

When you FIND your personal sweet spot, it really is like MAGIC, when you shoot your 60 yd groups,
cuz the groups will SHRINK sideways, and minor torquing of the riser/front stab, CROOKED left and CROOKED right,
your arrows still group in the middle. It really is amazing.

 

[nuts&bolts]

@nuts&bolts So after I dial in the rest, I do it all again for the sight.

The arrow rest is the better device to Torque Tune, cuz most arrow rests have a SLOT for fore-aft adjustment
and you can REALLY dial in the fore-aft position of the arrow rest.

 

[Seth234]

Torque tuning is done with about 95% from using the rest ONLY. Only time you move your sight, is to get get the very last bit out( if you have any torque torque tuning left). Torque tuning is also best for a good tuned bow to start with. If you are at 40 yards, and aim at the x on a face and you torque the bow and hitting 16” right or left, you can maybe get that down to half, but you ain’t getting it perfect. Jesse Broadwater actually stumbled across this years ago with Hoyt tech risers. Now honestly, how much torque do you think he was actually putting on his bow in the beginning. Again, it’s a huge benefit, but it can only get you so far. But if it gets you closer on bad shots, isn’t that what’s it’s about anyway?