Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello All... It's often debated whether "Angle Compensation" rangefinders are effective and worth the money. Having hunted in many different environments, I can say that although they may not be as useful when shooting shorter distances in cramped forests, when hunting out West with longer distances and steep mountainous terrain they are an invaluable tool. It's easier to understand if you've actually experienced it. In addition, if you also rifle hunt, having one rangefinder that can do it all is the way to go.

I recently stayed at a hotel in San Francisco that had a large atrium that provided a good way to demonstrate how the angle compensation can save your day. Using my rangefinder (Leupold RX-1000i TBR w/DNA) I measured several "targets" from my room balcony and two different mezzanines overlooking the areas below.

Distances are approximate. For simplicity, I rounded all figures to the nearest whole number. I've included the following distances:

Height above targets
Horizontal distance to targets
Line of sight distance to targets
Angle compensated distance to targets
Amount of overshoot if no compensation used

This is just a simple, real world use of the rangefinder. Enjoy!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
My apologies... The last photo was taken approximately 37 yards above the target.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Cool info, thanks.

...however, in this day and age of hype paranoia, I am not sure it is the best idea to be roaming around a hotel taking distance measurements...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
No worries. I was wearing the new Realtree HC. Hotel Camo - nobody could see me... ;)
 

·
Shooter of flesh
Joined
·
7,660 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,036 Posts
Well Id simply disagree that they are invaluable, I have found over the decades that practicing until cutting yrds is natural is a far more valuable asset than more tech.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,572 Posts
I appreciate your efforts, but don't see "real world" archery hunting relevance with distances that are 10-27 yards above the ground. That means stand heights in your scenarios would be a minimum of 30' and max of 81', which is in the stratosphere for me. I hunt about 14-18' off the ground in a typical setup, which makes the angle compensation a great deal more simple. As mentioned, with significant backyard practice it is not much of an issue at typical hunting ranges. Now for a rifle hunting in steep terrain, it would make great sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
*Sigh*... I knew I shouldn't have said, "real world use". I simply meant to imply that I was casually walking around and snapping distances. i.e. no tripod, pentaprisms, plumb bob, Gunter's chain, theodolite or an ISO 9001 review board to certify the results. Without a doubt, I knew that my efforts would awaken the slumbering naysayers and nit pickers who want to point out the fact that:

1. I was in a hotel.

2. That some of the numbers aren't exact.

3. That the heights and distances are not realistic.

4. That rangefinders are for sissies.


I wasn't implying that it actually simulates real world hunting conditions. I mean, it IS a hotel after all... The distances are merely approximations. Tech boys, no need to break out the scientific calculators with graphing capabilities and try to prove that some of the trajectories were off by .005%

I chose the hotel atrium because of all the possible, numerous projections with varying distances to simply demonstrate the effectiveness of a compensating rangefinder. My apologies, I wasn't out in grid 6b in inclement weather when I came up with the idea.

And of course... the height & distances aren't realistic for forest settings. That's why I started by saying that for scenarios "in mountainous, steep, rocky terrain." I used the extreme heights to demonstrate the progressive errors possible by misjudging angle compensation. Other than hunting in the Sequoia National Forest, I'm pretty sure that no one hunts from tree stands placed 37 yards up in a tree. That's 111 feet high for those of you reaching for your TI-36 X Pro. ;)
 

·
Shooter of flesh
Joined
·
7,660 Posts
I appreciate your efforts, but don't see "real world" archery hunting relevance with distances that are 10-27 yards above the ground. That means stand heights in your scenarios would be a minimum of 30' and max of 81', which is in the stratosphere for me. I hunt about 14-18' off the ground in a typical setup, which makes the angle compensation a great deal more simple. As mentioned, with significant backyard practice it is not much of an issue at typical hunting ranges. Now for a rifle hunting in steep terrain, it would make great sense.
Did you even read his post?

Just because YOU are in the West, doesn't mean it applied to you, he was talking about longer distances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
Hello All... It's often debated whether "Angle Compensation" rangefinders are effective and worth the money. Having hunted in many different environments, I can say that although they may not be as useful when shooting shorter distances in cramped forests, when hunting out West with longer distances and steep mountainous terrain they are an invaluable tool. It's easier to understand if you've actually experienced it. In addition, if you also rifle hunt, having one rangefinder that can do it all is the way to go.

I recently stayed at a hotel in San Francisco that had a large atrium that provided a good way to demonstrate how the angle compensation can save your day. Using my rangefinder (Leupold RX-1000i TBR w/DNA) I measured several "targets" from my room balcony and two different mezzanines overlooking the areas below.

Distances are approximate. For simplicity, I rounded all figures to the nearest whole number. I've included the following distances:

Height above targets
Horizontal distance to targets
Line of sight distance to targets
Angle compensated distance to targets
Amount of overshoot if no compensation used

This is just a simple, real world use of the rangefinder. Enjoy!
Yep, I'll agree on this part - hunting in rolling hills/mountains has it's own unique challanges (vertical drops being one of them)... The more I think about it, the more I want an angle compensating RF. Anytime you have elevation changes due to topography (not necessarily tree stands) you will run into this problem.

Thanks for the info Boonie!!!!

J.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,243 Posts
Thanks for the great info!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
420 Posts
Thank you, this was indeed an intelligent post! Most people who have never hunted out West simply cannot fathom that Angle Compensation is required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,709 Posts
Intelligent post yes, real world, maybe.

Biggest difference in actual vs ranged is 10 yards. Should still be in the kill zone on an elk with those numbers. Deer probably not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,703 Posts
based on my limited experience (30 yrs) bowhunting I take most of my shots inside 20 yards. the game is up close and personal watch the fur fly, there simply isn't time to range an animal. I range trees at eye level and make a mental note so when the moment of truth arises I have a very good estimate of the range. with the bows we shoot today anything inside 30 yards is a put the pin on his heart and trigger the release done deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,709 Posts
The other point is that you always over shoot, doesn't matter if uphill or downhill. Split the pins for the ranged distance or use the 10 yard shorter pin when shooting steep slopes.

If you look at the charts you will rarely have more than 10 yards worth of difference. When you start getting past 10 yards you are shooting a long ways in very, very steep country. Steep enough you better not be trying to shoot uphill because when you lean back you are going to roll down the mountain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
The other point is that you always over shoot, doesn't matter if uphill or downhill. Split the pins for the ranged distance or use the 10 yard shorter pin when shooting steep slopes.

If you look at the charts you will rarely have more than 10 yards worth of difference. When you start getting past 10 yards you are shooting a long ways in very, very steep country. Steep enough you better not be trying to shoot uphill because when you lean back you are going to roll down the mountain.
And yet last fall when I snuck up to the edge of the rocks I was in and looked over at the buck I knew was there, I couldn't tell what the horizontal distance was.... He was (line of sight) 60 yards from me, but at a steep downwards angle. I estimate that he was only 20 yards from me horizontally, but because I was up in the rocks and he was bedded down directly below me and in a grass field, how does one split the pins or use 10 yards shorter when there is no possible way to determine what the HZ distance is without an angle compensating RF? There were no trees growing beside him that I could range directly across to....

It turns out that I got another chance at him later on during rifle season and got him, but it would've been a clean miss with the bow at that steep angle (miss would've been ok, a wound would've been season ending for me)

J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,824 Posts
Great info and very well written and spoken! I too agree that they are a valuable tool and rarely hunt w/o one, I spend too much time practicing and prepping for my hunt to misjudge/range a stud buck and spoof a chance on said jammer buck.

BTW that looks like a BAD AZZ hotel! How was the scenery?!:wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
And yet last fall when I snuck up to the edge of the rocks I was in and looked over at the buck I knew was there, I couldn't tell what the horizontal distance was.... He was (line of sight) 60 yards from me, but at a steep downwards angle. I estimate that he was only 20 yards from me horizontally, but because I was up in the rocks and he was bedded down directly below me and in a grass field, how does one split the pins or use 10 yards shorter when there is no possible way to determine what the HZ distance is without an angle compensating RF? There were no trees growing beside him that I could range directly across to....

It turns out that I got another chance at him later on during rifle season and got him, but it would've been a clean miss with the bow at that steep angle (miss would've been ok, a wound would've been season ending for me)

J.
Here's what the situation was for me to try and range the buck....

2012BuckGeometry.jpg

J.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,709 Posts
Then the angle would have to be 70 degrees for 60 line of sight and 20 actual. Not many 70 degree slopes out there.
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top