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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bow - diamond sb1
DW- 58lb
Rest- wisker biscut sure shot pro.
Arrow victory rip tko @ 438 gr.

I've trying to paper tune my bow for about a week or so now and have run out of ideas as to what the issue is that is causing a persistent nock high tear.

I have adjusted the rest all the way up with little to no improvement, turned weight up and down, different arrows from the dozen, bare and fletch shafts, and different releases ( wrist) with seemingly no effect on the tear. I've included pictures of my paper from may when I had it shooting what I thought was great. Since then the only changes I made before this issue came up was moving from a 125 grain field point to a 100gr one and having a new peep installed. ** I did have to have the shop put another twist in the sting to get the peep to align and now I am wondering if this is what is causing the issue.* Maybe the cables ??

I took it in to one of the shops around here and the guy told me that my d loop was slightly pinching the nock and that might cause it, but didnt seem to think that it was anything else.

I wont rule out my form as the cause, but I would think that there would be more variation if it was solely due to form.

Sorry for the swiss cheese paper, it was rotated numerous times as I fiddled around in the garage trying to figure things out.



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Sounds like your cams have likely come out of time due to not great quality stock strings and uneven cable stretching. If you don’t have a press, you’ll have to take it to the shop to have them reset the timing. You might want to invest in a set of quality custom strings for the bow or it may be a continuing problem for you.
 

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I had same problem last time I used a whisker biscuit. Actually had to move rest opposite direction in order to fix the tear. I moved the rest down so that my nock point was noticeably high and it actually got rid of the high tear. I don’t know how.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had same problem last time I used a whisker biscuit. Actually had to move rest opposite direction in order to fix the tear. I moved the rest down so that my nock point was noticeably high and it actually got rid of the high tear. I don’t know how.

So the other day I said screw it with the paper and I'll just broadhead tune and contrary to everything I have read, this is what got me closest to my field point hitting where the BHs where but just as I was getting there I began getting contact with the shelf, once again kicking the knock back up....

Had I been a little smarter in would have taken a picture of my rest when things were set and would have a base point now, but I guess that's one of those lessons you learn as you go.
 

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I just skipped paper tuning altogether and used bareshaft tuning. Your BH tuning would be similar. When I used a biscuit, I had a persistent high/low tear (can't remember which one). When I switched to a drop away, the tears reversed so much I had to adjust my tiller about 2.5 full turns in order to get the bow to tune. I was using a single cam bow so its really hard to tune. But just know the biscuit has a significant effect on the tune of the bow.

If you look at the slow motion video of an arrow going through the biscuit, you'll see the bottom 2 vanes leave the biscuit bent while the top vane is straight. My theory is that the biscuit is knocking the bottom 2 vanes (due to the arrow not being exactly centered in the biscuit) and tossing the nock up/down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@North Park I've had the bow since january and try and shoot at least a couple hundred arrows a week, do you think that this is a reasonable time frame for this issue to come up? I have known for a while now that I am going to need quality strings, but probably naively, thought I might put it off till later.

@Bricktoast I understand what you are saying regarding the nature of a WB and contact, but that does not explain why I was able to get it shooting well through paper just a couple months ago and now it's a mess.
 

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Do you have a draw board to check your cam timing? Usually a persistent nock high tear indicates that your cams are out of time.
 
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Your form better be spot on, and timing spot on to get a consistent test with a whisker biscuit. Your good tears before. Is it the same arrows? Same vane? Whisker biscuits don’t like a lot of helical of offset. I wouldn’t shoot one again for nothing. I had one and it tuned good, but got in the complete silent words one morning and deer came in, and when I was drawing back, arrow sliding across the buiscuit sounding like dragging a bow across violin strings . All arrows don’t do that . But I just don’t like them. But it should be pretty simple to bareshaft tune.
 

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@North Park I've had the bow since january and try and shoot at least a couple hundred arrows a week, do you think that this is a reasonable time frame for this issue to come up? I have known for a while now that I am going to need quality strings, but probably naively, thought I might put it off till later.

@Bricktoast I understand what you are saying regarding the nature of a WB and contact, but that does not explain why I was able to get it shooting well through paper just a couple months ago and now it's a mess.
While I don’t have any experience with your particular bow, most entry level bows aren’t known for coming with the best of strings. With you saying that the bow was in tune and shooting bullet holes through paper for you before and how much you’ve been shooting it, I would say that cam timing is almost definitely your issue. The shop would be able to get it back in time for you and it’s possible that the cables have stretched as much as they’re going to and it will hold a tune longer this time, but it also may be a continuing problem for you. A good quality set of custom strings will keep the cams timed and stay in tune for a long time. So since you’re going to have to take it in to the shop anyway and pay to have it worked on, my recommendation would be to just go ahead and have them put a set of quality strings on it while they’re at it so you don’t keep fighting it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Your form better be spot on, and timing spot on to get a consistent test with a whisker biscuit. Your good tears before. Is it the same arrows? Same vane? Whisker biscuits don’t like a lot of helical of offset. I wouldn’t shoot one again for nothing. I had one and it tuned good, but got in the complete silent words one morning and deer came in, and when I was drawing back, arrow sliding across the buiscuit sounding like dragging a bow across violin strings . All arrows don’t do that . But I just don’t like them. But it should be pretty simple to bareshaft tune.
Same arrow, same fletching 2° offset. I also tried bareshaft to verify that it wasn't the fletching. Result was the same tear albeit a tiny bit less pronounced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While I don’t have any experience with your particular bow, most entry level bows aren’t known for coming with the best of strings. With you saying that the bow was in tune and shooting bullet holes through paper for you before and how much you’ve been shooting it, I would say that cam timing is almost definitely your issue. The shop would be able to get it back in time for you and it’s possible that the cables have stretched as much as they’re going to and it will hold a tune longer this time, but it also may be a continuing problem for you. A good quality set of custom strings will keep the cams timed and stay in tune for a long time. So since you’re going to have to take it in to the shop anyway and pay to have it worked on, my recommendation would be to just go ahead and have them put a set of quality strings on it while they’re at it so you don’t keep fighting it.
I'm going to go down and have them take another look at it today and see what they have to say.
 

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What do the tears represent? You need to get more scientific and reveal the data with each shot. A couple of the bare shafts are pretty good, what happened there? Your tears are inconsistent telling me your form is variable. I hunted with a whisker biscuit on my Oneida for 20 years, I used feathers, they are forgiving, Blazers not so much. Try posting a pic of 3 shots fletched and 3 shots bare shaft without changing anything
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What do the tears represent? You need to get more scientific and reveal the data with each shot. A couple of the bare shafts are pretty good, what happened there? Your tears are inconsistent telling me your form is variable. I hunted with a whisker biscuit on my Oneida for 20 years, I used feathers, they are forgiving, Blazers not so much. Try posting a pic of 3 shots fletched and 3 shots bare shaft without changing anything
My fancy paper tuning setup consisting of freezer paper and a box was flipped and turned numerous times, but the one consistent thing was the nock high tear which was verified by the shop this afternoon both me and the tech shooting. We spent an hour or so adjusting the timing, rest, putting twists in the cables, retuning them etc. And yet the tear persists. I left it there so the guy to take his lunch and will probably hear back tomorrow morning after he tinker's with it a little more. So I guess I'll hear back then and go from there. In the meantime I'm left scratching my head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was at work tonight but talked to the guy from the shop today. He stated that he was able to get it to tune with a weaker spined and longer arrow, but still no significant change with my current arrow. I'm going down tomorrow to pick it up and talk to him a little more in detail about it, but could this simply be a spine issue? And if so, why would I be able to get it tuned not too long ago and now the issue? Granted like the the first pic was with a 125 grain head and the latter was with 100 grain. Would 25 grains make that much of a difference, and if so wouldn't the issue be resolved with an increase in draw weight? 20 questions I know, but I'm just trying to make sense of it.

According to the victory spine calaulator I shoul be fine with a 350 spine after 63 lbs with a 100 grain head and after 61 with a 125 grain head.
 

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I was at work tonight but talked to the guy from the shop today. He stated that he was able to get it to tune with a weaker spined and longer arrow, but still no significant change with my current arrow. I'm going down tomorrow to pick it up and talk to him a little more in detail about it, but could this simply be a spine issue? And if so, why would I be able to get it tuned not too long ago and now the issue? Granted like the the first pic was with a 125 grain head and the latter was with 100 grain. Would 25 grains make that much of a difference, and if so wouldn't the issue be resolved with an increase in draw weight? 20 questions I know, but I'm just trying to make sense of it.

According to the victory spine calaulator I shoul be fine with a 350 spine after 63 lbs with a 100 grain head and after 61 with a 125 grain head.
25 grains could make a big difference. My arrow is a RIP TKO 300 with 75 gr insert and then 150 gr tip. I was hoping for 100 at first and field tip on a bareshaft was terrible. Went to 125... a lot better but not great. Went to 150... flies perfect. Now I know I went up a total of 50 grains from start to finish but the point is that 25 gr from 100 to 125 made a pretty significant difference. Remember these spine calculators, apps, and anything else telling you that this is the perfect arrow are only assumptions. Only you and your bow/arrow combo will see which is best for you.

Just a FYI if you run my arrow set up through the Pinwheel software it says that my arrow is on the weak side. Bareshaft, fieldtip, and broadheads all fly perfect. I will post my results because I have Pinwheel or Ontarget
 

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Your answer is in the gear. It's a VERY COMMON problem with the whisker biscuit and similar rests. There's about a thousand threads on it in the past couple years alone. Try changing the rest to a drop away and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So the verdict is in. It appears that my fletching 2° offset was making contact with the black fibers of my biscut kicking the nock up. In addition to that I guess that the top limb was turned down more than the bottom, moving my d loop just enough. How we didnt catch this last part after adjusting down from being maxed out is a mystery, but there you go. It looks like everyone who mentioned the rest was as least 70% right. Of course they were also out of the rest that I would replace my wisker biscut with so I'll have to make due in the meantime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That's the thing after I first fletched these arrows they were flying perfect through paper and even tuning my broadheads for turkey season was a relative breeze... in any case I just reflected a couple to test and have another rest comming in on Tuesday. I guess I will see what happens when I shoot them through the WB vs the ripcord and go from there.
 
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