[Dave Hawk]

I have to hunt with a crossbow and right now there is very strong opposition being many on both sides of the track. But what gets me is that P&Y has stated that they will do all they can to eliminate crossbows from the archery season. I want to know , is this good for hunting? Dose anyone have the right to tell someone they can't hunt with the weapon of their choice? I fall back on many of the Lord's statements to us, where we are not to interfere with others especially if it's legal. Many states have made the crossbow legal. P&Y want to now try and make it so they can't hunt. They are ok with disable hunters, somewhat.
This is a post I have made on many sites dealing with differences between the bows for hunting.
I hope you guys understand,

I am a crossbow hunter. 4 major surgeries on my shoulders and the left will need replacement in the future, sooner if I keep playing with you guys at the range. Plus I crushed 4,5 &6 disc in my lower back. at 24. Now Crossbows have made some major changes over the 23 years I have been hunting with them. They are seriously accurate and getting harder to pull back, as the manufactures are making them higher in poundage every year trying to out due the other guy, but it still can be done by hand if one is tough the correct way to do it.
.It still shoots and arrow that can hit a limb, deer can still jump the string at ranges closer than one would think and you still need to get in position for the shot.
.I had to learn to think and hunt like a bow hunter, just because the bow is sitting in my lap or hanging on a limb doesn’t mean I can be ready for what ever deer comes in. It's true that if I see the deer 1st I can 99.9% of the time be ready for the deer. But the deer that comes in behind me or along side me and sometimes from the thickets right in front of me It can be tricky to maneuver the bow into position. I've learned the signs deer give to allow me to move and get in positions to make a clean kill. Holding the bow up for a period of time is not uncommon either. Waiting for the perfect shot. At times many doe’s and bucks while holding have busted me.
.2nd shots can be made, but quess what, I have to recock my bow to do so. I have made many kills with deer standing insight with a 2nd shot either for a 2nd deer kill or a missed shot and reloaded to take a 2nd.
.The major difference I have found between Crossbow shooters and verticals shooters in stand placement, guys always ask me. "Are you putting me in one of your CB stands?" My stands are usually in think cover and this is where the difference comes in, Sense I don't need to draw back I usually will be tucked in between limbs or low over hanging branches.
.If I was shooting a "Bow Gun" that shot a "BULLET" I can assure you I would have a dozen or more major size bucks that would be in the record books. My arrows are just that an arrow and thus subject to the same surcomstances ever bow hunter faces in the field.

DaveHawk

 

[Archersteve]

I hear your pain, and as you can see no one wants to touch this one

But I will.

If you do indeed have all the problems that you claim then I can support your need to use a cross bow. The problem is that most, not all, that use cross bows just want to have 'gun like easy to shoot' without the knowledge of the limitations of the cross "bow". I even know of Doctors that give otherwise healthy people the signed forms to get the handicapped "cross Bow" waivers. :angry:

Most cross bows are very fast, but lack any KE to speak of. This makes them very accurate, but not very lethal to game at more than the closest distances. Most cross bows have scopes on them that can hit quarters at 50 yards, but the real killing distance of the cross bow is 20 yards or much less. Cross bows are easy to shoot, cock them and point; even the lazy can do it. Most people that buy them want to hunt in a bow season, but don't pay their dues to know the limitations, than when wounded game is running around with bolts sticking out, the press tells us that the "bow hunters" are at fault.

If cross bow "hunters" know their limitations, keep within their limitations, and do not use optics and devices that the rest of the archery world is prohibited from using, than perhaps there is a place for them. It is just been my experience that most of the "cross bow hunters" are BIG BOX STORE hunters that get a last minute desire to hunt, buy the "cross bow" and go stick an animal. They then loose the animal, than the rest of us pay the price.

In case you cannot tell, I am not a fan of them; yet I shot them as a kid. Perhaps it is the “why I shot them as a kid” that makes me think that the "cross Bow hunter" is a second class – no, make that a third class, hunter at best. :thumbs_do

I see that AT has a forum for the Cross Bow now, and that is fine. Perhaps this will get the training and knowledge out to the masses so they can move up enough to receive a little respect from me.

Now, you have my opinion, are you sure you really wanted it?

 

[tjb357452]

There's plenty of woods for all of us. If the crossbow people follow the same basic rules of engagement, I have no objections. I'm shopping for a used crossbow to use at archery demos I'm asked to do for various civic organizations. I shot against a crossbow shooter many years ago, and quite frankly, the poor guy didn't have much of a chance. He was able to keep everything in the 4 ring, but I got the feeling that his bow couldn't do any better. Things may have changed in 25 years, but I wasn't at all impressed with the accuracy levels I saw. Having said that, I still think a crossbow delivers adequate accuracy for hunting. The argument is as tiresome as the traditional vs. compound dribble. They're all primitive devices and there's little difference between them in the broad definition of hunting.

 

[wisc]

Let me start by stating I've hunted from a very young age but have only been bow hunting for three years. Therefore, I am a rookie so take what I say with that caveat. I am for crossbows for people who have injuries and can't use a bow. I am totally against them for everyone else. The politicians in Virginia think different than me and it is now legal in archery season.

 

[PA.JAY]

I hated crossbows for hunting seen the bad side of it! BUT i also met a guy that fell out of a tree messed him up real bad now he has no choice but to use a cross bow. it really changed my mind on how i feel ! BUT THEIR WILL always be the ones that abuse a good thing & make it bad. GOOD LUCK TO YOU!!

 

[LeesburgGamecoc]

If you can't physically shoot a bow because of a disability, I have no problem with you using a crossbow during archery season. Physically able people have no business hunting with crossbows during archery season. If they want to hunt with them during gun season, then great. Every time I have stopped in the local Bass Pro Shops this summer, I have confirmed my suspicion that the new legalization would lead to lots of clueless slobs carrying crossbows into the woods this fall. People who won't take the time to learn to shoot a bow, yet physically could, are not ones I want to share the woods with. It is bad for all involved...except the slobs.

 

[birddog1]

I seem to be in the minority here on AT. They are legal here in Ohio and I have absolutley no problem with them at all. There are many options available to those of us who use a compound bow. Is it right to have 65 or 80% let off? What about wood or aluminum or carbon arrows? How about mechanical broadheads for improved arrow flight? Not to offend any here, but it seems that we want to pick and choose what is fair and just and as long as it benefits us personally, then its OK.

The same thing can be said about black powder hunting. Originally it was just that, black powder. Now there's pyrodex and other substitutes. These all give a distinct advantage over the original. Same with bullets, started off with round balls, now we have sabots shot from inlines. I've never hunted with a crossbow, but I know a few people who do. Some of them practice a lot, others hardly at all. Its the same as during gun season. We just need to remember we're all fighting the same fight.

 

[ShenValArcher]

I live in Virginia and I opposed this legislature through writing letters to DGIF, as well as other archers in my area.
DGIF conservatively estimates 5000-7000 new archery hunters this year alone because of this ruling.
Maybe I'm being selfish and self centered, but I think:

1. A "road hunters" dream come true.
2. A higher unrecovered animal rate- due to a misconception of a cross bows capabilities resulting in poor and or unethical shots/ shot placement.
3. A cross bow should not be dry fired to prevent injury to the person or bow-How many will shoot their bow at the end of every day and maybe ruin a bolt/broadhead, choosing instead to carry their cross bow cocked in their vehicle(and maybe loaded). See #1 above
4.Safety-in the fact that most wont adhere to the recommendation of cocking a cross bow while on the ground, not while in a stand. And what did someone say about second shots?

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that my brother said to me one day that he too was thinking of getting a crossbow and my reply to him was that "I would never give-up the satisfaction I recieve from doing it the hard way, to see the results of all the time and energy I've put into perfecting form and function". I also told him one of the reasons I got into archery in the first place was to be able to "beat the crowds" typical of our gun seasons. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to do that since theres a "new" crowd in town.

 

[ShenValArcher]

As a brief follow-up to my previous post I would like to say that I'm 100% in favor of cross bows for the disabled. I did not mean to trample on everyone's toes. I also would be in agreement to allowing seniors a permit to use them, provided they have had recent Hunter Safety Training.

 

[dixierebel]

crossbows

My feelings on the subject are as follows. Archery season is for archery equipment and I feel that crossbows do not fall into this category. A crossbow uses a gun like stock, fixed trigger, and fires a projectile down range. A compound bow requires the archer to draw the bow, hold it (sometimes for an extended period of time), aim, and maintain a flawless form throughout the shot process. I can't even begin to go into the amount of time spent practicing, tuning, practicing, tuning more, more practice, to be the best you can be with a compound bow. Now my living deals with working with archery equipment and crossbows. I can pull a crossbow out of the box, assemble it and have it zereod in less than 20 minutes. With a crossbow, the weapon is pre cocked (most have mechanical hand cranks available for them), there is no holding it at full draw, it is aimed in the manner of a rifle, from a lock on treestand you can use your knee as a steady rest, and basically put requires none of the skills that a bow does.
Now on the other hand, anyone that is physically unable to shoot a bow should be able to use a crossbow during archery season. I think this should not only include handicap hunters but older hunters as well that may not be able to shoot a bow to their best capability anymore. I see several people take advantage of the handicap rule though.
Now i know i will get blasted on this, but here goes. I know most crossbowers will argue that crossbows in archery season will get more hunters in the woods, but if you aren't willing to learn to shoot a bow, then most states have more than adequate length firearms seasons. Also don't give me the rebuttal that it will get more kids in the woods; I started hunting deer with a compound bow when i was 10, with a minimal draw weight requirement of 45 lbs. NC now only requires a 35 lb. minimal draw weight. Teaching a kid to shoot a bow will be time well spent. If you insist on calling a crossbow archery, teaching a kid to shoot a real bow will teach them that archery takes practice, and is not easy. All a crossbow will do is teach them that its easy.
Another thing that bugs me is willie and djh from the crossbow board spamming every archery forum they can find with crossbow discussions. These guys are as bad as the manufacturers trying to shove this topic down everyones throats. Achery will go on, and like a bad smell, the crossbow fad will eventually die off. Nuff said.

 

[Darrel]

I don't have a problem with them, but, I personally wouldn't want to own one.

I do agree with birddog1. How many of the people that have problems with crossbows, hunt with in-line muzzle loaders? In-lines are more accurate, have more energy, and are capable of taking game at much longer ranges compared to a side lock. Why should you be able to use a in-line during black powder season? Doesn't that give you an advantage over the traditional shooter?

Darrel

 

[Yearling]

If they want to hunt with them during gun season, then great.QUOTE]

I also told him one of the reasons I got into archery in the first place was to be able to "beat the crowds" typical of our gun seasons. I'm not sure how long I'll be able to do that since theres a "new" crowd in town. QUOTE]

I agree with both so why not rifle season?

 

[dixierebel]

its all about the money

I'll tell you why not rifle season. There would not be any interest and the manufacturers of crossbows wouldn't make any money. Anyone that hasn't, go to the crossbow forum and read some of the post by DJH, this man is the editor of (drum roll please) a crossbow magazine. He has his hands in on the green and is spamming every imaginable website he can with crossbow this and crossbow that. You will see by reading his post that he responds with very rude remarks about anyone that stands against allowing crossbows in archery season. He also bashes pope and young repeatedly, the very organization that fought to get archery seasons started. Its just like everything else today, its all about the money.

 

[walks with a gi]

If you're not handicapped, a crossbow does not force the committment to practice as with compounds or longbows. I can see in the future that some young hunters won't want to take the challenge of ARCHERY gear, and choose the easier to master crossbow.

IMO, a crossbow is not archery.

 

[gmherps]

There's plenty of woods for all of us. If the crossbow people follow the same basic rules of engagement, I have no objections.

To me that's the bottom line.

 

[GVDocHoliday]

I'll chime in a little here.

First, for people in your situation, who can't physically shoot a crossbow, I have no problem with that what so ever. I have a few buddies who have to shoot a crossbow because they have messed up backs and the messed up elbow from a few operations stemming from a baseball injury.

If P&Y succeed, my buddies would no longer be able to hunt with their crossbows. This would really break their hearts. But like I said, if you can physically draw and shoot a bow, and you're complaining about this, then I'd just say tough. But that's not the case.

Does P&Y have the right to not allow crossbow harvested animals into their book? Yes, plain and simple. I can't give any sympathy for that.

 

[Dave Hawk]

Thanks all for your post's

1st off; their are few hunters with crossbows who have taken a % of the deer I have with a crossbow and who know the limitations the bow has. I like you had to spend countless hours learning about my weapon over the past 23 years. Each one I bought I had to get to know. Findng the right set up or arrow and broad head and sights, this has taken allot of time. The majority of arrows that are sold to crossbow hunters are crap and the heads also, as many have stated it's the almighty "$" not the quility.
>I have instructed many guys in the use of crossbows and what arrows to buy and heads to place on them. I know what works and what dosn't. As far as "KE" even the cheepest bow I have owned killed allot of deer. The new set up I have gave me 27 pass throughs stright. I been using this set up for 5 years now. If you care to know E-mail me.
>40 yard shot are not common to me , I can honestly say I have taken 2 nice bucks at 40 yards. Their are ways that a crossbow hunter can take long shots but he has to know them. Like taking the shot when the deer is standing next to a tree, so he can't drop and roll. You get a good hit.
>As far as wounding deer; please, I shot 26 deer last year an lost 1 to a unseen branch in the early morning light.

> I have a friend who is one of Md's best shots with a stick bow working with my youngest son. He said he's not ready yet to hunt with his recurve so I bought him a compound but he couldn't pull it back yet. but he still wanted to get out and hunt. He can shoot my crossbow so durring the crossbow season I took him out we had a great time. My older boys are compound shooters.

Now what I am about to say some may feel it is a cheep shot or even get pissed at me for it but it's the truth and many have forgotten this or don't want to assoceate what has been writen to guide us through life;

Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility towards all men. At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, decived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing and rebirth by the Holy Spirit, whom he pored out on all of usgenerously through Jesus Christ our Savior, So that , having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:1-7


Is the guy who wants to hunt with a crossbow your keeper? My concern is to help and encourage others in what ever thay want to do as long as it's leagle. If their are guys who want to shoot a crossbow and are not handycap, so what ! its their privlidge. Just because they didn't put time into it, How do you know what the Lord has given them to do with their time and if a crossbow will help them beable to spend some time in the woods , Great ! but how do you know they haven't shot a stick bow for 20 years and just want to see what it's like. I'll tell you this, if a person knows his or her weapon and if confadent to hunt with it and can make clean kills. Then so be it. Let them hunt and enjoy the time on earth they have . It's to short ! "I help a hunter in need."

 

[Bowhunter20]

If you can't physically shoot a bow because of a disability, I have no problem with you using a crossbow during archery season. Physically able people have no business hunting with crossbows during archery season. If they want to hunt with them during gun season, then great. Every time I have stopped in the local Bass Pro Shops this summer, I have confirmed my suspicion that the new legalization would lead to lots of clueless slobs carrying crossbows into the woods this fall. People who won't take the time to learn to shoot a bow, yet physically could, are not ones I want to share the woods with. It is bad for all involved...except the slobs.

Don't quote me, but in Michigan, I think you can use crossbows during rifle season. Other than that, they are illegal. I have recently moved to Ohio where crossbows are legal.

Here is my take on crossbows. I totally agree that the physically disabled should be able to use them. Most people that are physically disabled would rather not shoot a crossbow, but due to their health, the do just to get into the woods...and I commend that. For instance, my uncle is disabled. We have tried to get him to get a crossbow so he can get back into the woods, but he refuses because he is against crossbows. That being said, let's talk about the physically capable people that shoot crossbows.

There is a significant advantage to hunting with a crossbow. It elimitates the draw cycle. There is a lot less movement involved to pull a stock up to your shoulder than there is to pull back a bow. I don't care who you are, nobody can hold a bow back as long as you can hold a crossbow up to your shoulder. Crossbows make it easier, plain and simple. If a crossbow hunter can make one point as to how hunting with crossbows is harder than a regular bow, please let me know.

What it boils down to is that there should be a separate season for crossbows, Just like there is a separate season for guns, and muzzleloaders. I read someone mentioned inline muzzleloaders. I won't even touch on that subject.

 

[Krazyhorn]

I feel that if someone is disabled then they should be allowed to hunt with one. I could also see this expanded to older guys who have trouble shooting a bow and still want to bow hunt.

For every one else there is a reason archery season is set up the way it is. The season is usualy long in most states, this is to give bow hunters a chance at getting a deer. Thats becouse its hard to shoot a deer with a bow. It takes alot of time to learn how and a crossbow can in no way be compared to this. You can argue all you want about compounds verses recurves. I actuallythink a recurve is easier in some ways to shoot than a compound as long as you practice. They sure are easier to tune and faster to shoot at a deer.

In Michigan we have 750,000 gun hunters and 300,000 + bowhunters. The oppertunity to hunt private is ever shrinking due to leasing and urban sprawl. Public land gets more crowded every year. If we let crossbows into archery opening day of archery will be like opening day of gun and you would pry have to pass another law to force hunters to wear hunters orange during archery. I cant imagine what it would be like to have even 600,000 bow hunters in the MI woods next season if the law is passed. Also I could see our long season shortend becouse of the influx of hunters.

So I guess my reasons are 3 basically, one is selfish and I iwll admit that, 2 is that in no way can you compare a bow no matter the let off, to a crossbow. They are two different animals entirely. 3 would be that Im against just becosue the only reason they are being shoved down are throats is becouse of GREEEEED!

Having said all that Im not against the idea of having a crossbow late season during the 10 day muzzleloader season.

 

[Marvin]

P&Y

I highly doubt that they are concerned with the number of handicapped hunters in the woods. They see a trend and are trying to reverse it to save a heritage. I'm from Ohio...the crossbow **** of america....It is safe to say we probably have more crossbow shooters than any other state. Do you wantto know how many people I see in the shops or in their yards practicing with their crossbows? NONE...that bothers me and it should bother you....If you truly do spend the time to practice with your crossbow your welcome in my camp. Crossbows will always have this bad rap. The majority of people that use them in ohio are not in Dave's situation. they abuse the priviledge and give it a bad name. we get this division amongst ourelves because we police our own ranks instead of letting politicians get in the way ....but they are starting to get in the way and we are at this crossroads. were going to be there for a while... I will tell you my experience with crossbows has been severely mixed. I took my first deer with one....and also watched a guy that could not shoot his crossbow within a paper plate at 20 yards to qualify for a state hunt ( 3 of 5 arrows in the plate). good luck to all and be safe this season.