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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sure this topic is beating a dead horse ten times over. I'm fairly new to archery, only having a couple years experience. I've just recently started to get into and understand arrow spines and point weights and the relationship between the two.

My inquiry is this:
Currently shooting an elite hunter with a 27 inch draw at 74 lbs. Arrow length, carbon to carbon, is 26.5 inches. I'm using GT kinetic xt 400s (with easton HIT inserts) with 100 grain points and blazer vanes with a 4 inch wrap and easton x knocks. Ibo of 271 fps

According to GTs chart I should be shooting a 340 spine with these same variables. Since they don't make a 340 kinetic I'm wondering if it would be better for me to move to the 300 spine and a 125 grain point. Also, would a 125 grain point be too heavy for my 400s? With such a short arrow length I feel my current 400 spines are stiffer then advertised. I also believe the GT chart is not always a one size fits all for every shooter.

I would like to shoot 125 grain points, so I'm going to try them with my current 400 spines and see how they shoot. If they don't shoot well I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to move to the 300 spine or just go back to 100 gr and call it good.
 

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Im my opinion, if the GT chart is saying .340 I would use .300's regardless of point weight.
That being said,the 125's with the specs you listed would probably be perfect.
 

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Id go with the 300 with the 125. Should shoot flatter and pack some serious punch.
 

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400 or 340 whichever you go with will be fine. That said I dont believe you can have too stiff of an arrow so a 300 will work also.
 

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Id go with the 300 with the 125. Should shoot flatter and pack some serious punch.
Not sure how a 300 spine arrow with 125 gr tips will shoot flatter than a 400 spine arrow of the same family with 100 gr points. If the arrow weight goes up then the velocity goes down. With less velocity and the same aerodynamic properties then arrow will drop faster.

It will have more down range energy with a heavier arrow however.

To the op. Why do you want to shoot a 125 gr head? Larger cut or wanting more foc?

If wanting more foc you can take the wrap off. But that will make your arrow spine weaker. Adding weight to the rear of shaft makes the spine behave stiffer.

If you think you are underspined already then going to a 300 is the way to go if gt only offers that. The 125 gr head will make the arrow behave weaker and leave the wrap off the rear to get it to behave more like a 340.

You can also cut the 300 shaft a bit longer to weaken it some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not sure how a 300 spine arrow with 125 gr tips will shoot flatter than a 400 spine arrow of the same family with 100 gr points. If the arrow weight goes up then the velocity goes down. With less velocity and the same aerodynamic properties then arrow will drop faster.

It will have more down range energy with a heavier arrow however.

To the op. Why do you want to shoot a 125 gr head? Larger cut or wanting more foc?

If wanting more foc you can take the wrap off. But that will make your arrow spine weaker. Adding weight to the rear of shaft makes the spine behave stiffer.

If you think you are underspined already then going to a 300 is the way to go if gt only offers that. The 125 gr head will make the arrow behave weaker and leave the wrap off the rear to get it to behave more like a 340.

You can also cut the 300 shaft a bit longer to weaken it some.

So using my 400 arrow, would it work to leave the wrap on, to make it behave more like a 340, then throw on the 125 gr to improve my FOC?

My main goal is to improve FOC/Penetration/down range energy. I think ill fight the wind a tad bit better to with the heavier tip.
 

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It depends on what the actual spine on the gold tips are. They are listed as 400 but are they really? They could be 390 or 410. The 400 is just a nominal rating and I don't know what the actual spine is. You are going to be very close on being underspined with the 125 tip wrap or not. You are already pretty heavy into the 340 spine range according to the gt chart.

If it was me I'd get some 125 bhs that you are going to use and see how they work. Since you want to go that way anyway you'll have them and if your 400s won't work you'll have your heads.

I would bet you are going to have to go to the 300s unless your Bow is extremely fine tuned and your form is good.

You could always play with backing the poundage down some to make your 400s work. Or go with another manufacturer that has 340s. Black Eagle comes to mind.

I am shooting acc 390s cut to 27.25 no wrap but with lighted nock and 100 gr Qad bhs. At 66 lbs. i am right on the verge of needing 350 shaft but I think having a little more rear weight is allowing me to shoot them. I also have some acc 340s and they shoot just as well as the 390s but are heavily and slower.

Lastly, if you are stuck on gold tips and have to shoot 300,it is usually better to be stiffer than weaker with broadheads.
 

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I bought 340 gts for my anarchy at 62 lbs and they seem to be all good. Took the same arrows and shot them through the agenda [email protected] 71 lbs and sprayed em all over the target. 300s fly way better for my setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It depends on what the actual spine on the gold tips are. They are listed as 400 but are they really? They could be 390 or 410. The 400 is just a nominal rating and I don't know what the actual spine is. You are going to be very close on being underspined with the 125 tip wrap or not. You are already pretty heavy into the 340 spine range according to the gt chart.

If it was me I'd get some 125 bhs that you are going to use and see how they work. Since you want to go that way anyway you'll have them and if your 400s won't work you'll have your heads.

I would bet you are going to have to go to the 300s unless your Bow is extremely fine tuned and your form is good.

You could always play with backing the poundage down some to make your 400s work. Or go with another manufacturer that has 340s. Black Eagle comes to mind.

I am shooting acc 390s cut to 27.25 no wrap but with lighted nock and 100 gr Qad bhs. At 66 lbs. i am right on the verge of needing 350 shaft but I think having a little more rear weight is allowing me to shoot them. I also have some acc 340s and they shoot just as well as the 390s but are heavily and slower.

Lastly, if you are stuck on gold tips and have to shoot 300,it is usually better to be stiffer than weaker with broadheads.
Bought some 125 gr bullet points.... going to paper tune with the 400s and see what kind of groups I get.... is there something I should look for when looking for a weak spine or am I good if it paper tunes and groups well?
 

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Paper tuning will give you an idea. Nock left is a good induction of weak spine. Make sure to check the 100s first. Nock left couldn't also be a centershot issue
 

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So using my 400 arrow, would it work to leave the wrap on, to make it behave more like a 340, then throw on the 125 gr to improve my FOC?

My main goal is to improve FOC/Penetration/down range energy. I think ill fight the wind a tad bit better to with the heavier tip.
The wrap will have very little effect on the spine of the arrow...thus NOT making it act like a 340...yes adding weight to rear stiffens spine...but the wrap doesn't weigh enough to change the spine that much
 

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Are these hunting arrows, 3d, target, or a combination of the three? If I did my math right, they come in at just under 400 gr, which is fine for a hunting arrow, but I'm concerned they are a little short. You should cut your hunting arrows at least 1" in front of your riser to keep broad heads in front of your bow hand. If you need to cut them longer they will act weaker so go with the 300s, which will also give you an even heavier arrow with better penetration. If 3d, want to focus on the weight of the arrow where lighter shoots flatter making it more forgiving of distance errors, so stay with the 400s, keep them short (about an inch in front of your rest) but I'd move to GT Velocities at 7.4 gr / in compared to the Kinetics at 9.5 gr / in. If they are for both 3d and hunting. Make the best hunting arrow you can and learn how to accurately judge distance where a 5 yd error will mean the difference between a 10 / 12 and an 8 or even a 5 on those 35 yd and greater shots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are these hunting arrows, 3d, target, or a combination of the three? If I did my math right, they come in at just under 400 gr, which is fine for a hunting arrow, but I'm concerned they are a little short. You should cut your hunting arrows at least 1" in front of your riser to keep broad heads in front of your bow hand. If you need to cut them longer they will act weaker so go with the 300s, which will also give you an even heavier arrow with better penetration. If 3d, want to focus on the weight of the arrow where lighter shoots flatter making it more forgiving of distance errors, so stay with the 400s, keep them short (about an inch in front of your rest) but I'd move to GT Velocities at 7.4 gr / in compared to the Kinetics at 9.5 gr / in. If they are for both 3d and hunting. Make the best hunting arrow you can and learn how to accurately judge distance where a 5 yd error will mean the difference between a 10 / 12 and an 8 or even a 5 on those 35 yd and greater shots.
Hunting arrows....
 

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Are these hunting arrows, 3d, target, or a combination of the three? If I did my math right, they come in at just under 400 gr, which is fine for a hunting arrow, but I'm concerned they are a little short. You should cut your hunting arrows at least 1" in front of your riser to keep broad heads in front of your bow hand. If you need to cut them longer they will act weaker so go with the 300s, which will also give you an even heavier arrow with better penetration. If 3d, want to focus on the weight of the arrow where lighter shoots flatter making it more forgiving of distance errors, so stay with the 400s, keep them short (about an inch in front of your rest) but I'd move to GT Velocities at 7.4 gr / in compared to the Kinetics at 9.5 gr / in. If they are for both 3d and hunting. Make the best hunting arrow you can and learn how to accurately judge distance where a 5 yd error will mean the difference between a 10 / 12 and an 8 or even a 5 on those 35 yd and greater shots.
While your may feel you need an extra inch of arrow in front of the riser this is not universal. When over draw and aluminum shafts were big the bh was way back. Also a 31" draw guy would have a hard time meeting this requirement.

I feel shaft length should be reflective of desired arrow weight and spine requirement. Yes it may be safer to have the sharp pointy thing in front of riser but with practice and proper from your hand shouldn't be up there anyway.
 

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While your may feel you need an extra inch of arrow in front of the riser this is not universal. When over draw and aluminum shafts were big the bh was way back. Also a 31" draw guy would have a hard time meeting this requirement.

I feel shaft length should be reflective of desired arrow weight and spine requirement. Yes it may be safer to have the sharp pointy thing in front of riser but with practice and proper from your hand shouldn't be up there anyway.

SAFETY FIRST! The risk may be acceptable to you, but not to me and I do not recommend it as I would feel absolutely terrible if someone ended up all stitched up because I gave them anything but safe advice. Let's agree to disagree.
 
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