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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #1
If a club advertises a ASA Pro Am qualifier or State Tournament should they be required to use the correct targets by the Organizations they are representing? If the correct targets are not used is it like false advertising? I compare it to a golf course holding a PGA Qualifer for the US Open and decides to have par 7's or par 8's... Some place there has to be unity in targets and rules if you use a Organizations name for advertising..

The ASA and IBO should regulate these shoots with representatives looking over the shoot location and targets for the shoots. I think each area rep should have access to a entire range of targets and any club that wants to hold tournament should have access to the targets if they don't have them and this access to the targets would be included in a fee to participate in the shoot. This fee would go back to the organization for up keep on targets and revenue for the organization.

ASA uses Mckenzie and they have a list of targets they use
IBO uses Reinhart and has a list of targets they use

So if you use any of these letters in your advertisement IBO/ASA should you have to use these targets is the question??

ASA and IBO stand for more than speed and Lower or Center 11-12 ring..if you don't have the correct target you only have half the equation for a correctly ran representation of the Organization you are representing.

But if following all the rules including targets doesn't matter then only one thing matters $$$

Just bored and had been thinking about this topic for sometime..
 

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I get what ur saying . That is a tuff thing to answer because it boils down to $$$$. I think if clubs are holding quailfiers and had to have the right targets . I think u would see less shoots .
 

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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #4
I get what ur saying . That is a tuff thing to answer because it boils down to $$$$. I think if clubs are holding quailfiers and had to have the right targets . I think u would see less shoots .
I agree you would see less shoots but the quality of shoots would increase and with time more clubs would follow and help from the ASA and IBO for support would also increase their product ..
 

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agree. state reps should be responsible for getting the right targets to the site. i'm not sure about jacking up the entry fee though. $20 now for asa...but of course, with asa you get a pay back.
 

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They dont need to have the correct targets. Yesturday i shot a ibo state shoot that was all mckenzies. Yea it sucks they arent the right targets but the clubs cant afford to always buy new ranges. Ibo doesnt help the clubs with targets they are all on their own to buy new targets. Thats why ibo isnt strict on that rule cuz they dont help the clubs eith new targets
 

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ASA states that you can use any targets you want for a qualifier, but you have to have McKenzies for the championship.
 

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agree. state reps should be responsible for getting the right targets to the site. i'm not sure about jacking up the entry fee though. $20 now for asa...but of course, with asa you get a pay back.
How much do you think the reps get paid? Is it enough to tote targets around all over the state to every club that is having a qualifier - get there the day before so targets can be set up, stay in a hotel, use their gas, stay after the shoot until all the targets are pulled and then drive home somewhere in the state only to have to unload and put away all the targets? I can tell you what they get paid - its a big attaboy - thanks for helping out - can you do it again next year? All that gas you spent driving around the state? Thanks for chipping in man!
 

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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #9
How much do you think the reps get paid? Is it enough to tote targets around all over the state to every club that is having a qualifier - get there the day before so targets can be set up, stay in a hotel, use their gas, stay after the shoot until all the targets are pulled and then drive home somewhere in the state only to have to unload and put away all the targets? I can tell you what they get paid - its a big attaboy - thanks for helping out - can you do it again next year? All that gas you spent driving around the state? Thanks for chipping in man!
That's a bad deal I wouldn't do it for nothing.... The organizations would benefit from compensating the reps to produce and advertise a better product.
 

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Actually I enjoy what I do and look forward to going to all of my clubs and shooting with them. The thing is I would be doing it anyway so I might as well be a guy that can get things done when needed. Yes it would be nice to get compensated but it would just drive the price of shoots up and nobody wants that. I just don't want to be toting everybodys targets all over the state - its a big state. I can drive for 10 hours without leaving.
 

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How much do you think the reps get paid? Is it enough to tote targets around all over the state to every club that is having a qualifier - get there the day before so targets can be set up, stay in a hotel, use their gas, stay after the shoot until all the targets are pulled and then drive home somewhere in the state only to have to unload and put away all the targets? I can tell you what they get paid - its a big attaboy - thanks for helping out - can you do it again next year? All that gas you spent driving around the state? Thanks for chipping in man!
sorry if i didn't make it clear. i would not expect the reps to tote the targets, just make certain the targets were appropriate. at every qualifier/state asa shoot i've been to the locals set the targets with some over-sight from the reps.

i do appreciate what the reps do in their efforts to expand and improve asa at the state level.
 

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agree. state reps should be responsible for getting the right targets to the site. i'm not sure about jacking up the entry fee though. $20 now for asa...but of course, with asa you get a pay back.

Only $5 each goes to ASA. The other $15 stays with the host club for all their work putting the shoot on. A club needs $10 a shooter just to break even so there isn't a lot of money being made.
 

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Only $5 each goes to ASA. The other $15 stays with the host club for all their work putting the shoot on. A club needs $10 a shooter just to break even so there isn't a lot of money being made.
^^^

This.

Nobody is getting rich. Just be happy you have someplace to shoot and someone put in a lot of work for you to have a place to shoot.
 

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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #15
I play allot of golf and 40$ 50$ a round is common for a good course.. I think 3D archery clubs under prices the shoots they have if the course and targets are good... 25$ a round is a good starting point for a course that is well laid out with the correct targets in good condition. I don't think 25$ is allot to pay for quality heck I pay 15$ for a bucket of range balls at the local driving range and I just stand in one place and hit balls and the driving range is always busy.. If I had a quality range I would rather have 25 shooters paying 25$ on a Saturday then 50 shooters paying 10$! I would make more money have a larger profit margin and less up keep on my targets? Just some of my thinking out loud.. 3D archery is underpriced
 

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If a club advertises a ASA Pro Am qualifier or State Tournament should they be required to use the correct targets by the Organizations they are representing? If the correct targets are not used is it like false advertising? I compare it to a golf course holding a PGA Qualifer for the US Open and decides to have par 7's or par 8's... Some place there has to be unity in targets and rules if you use a Organizations name for advertising..

The ASA and IBO should regulate these shoots with representatives looking over the shoot location and targets for the shoots. I think each area rep should have access to a entire range of targets and any club that wants to hold tournament should have access to the targets if they don't have them and this access to the targets would be included in a fee to participate in the shoot. This fee would go back to the organization for up keep on targets and revenue for the organization.

ASA uses Mckenzie and they have a list of targets they use
IBO uses Reinhart and has a list of targets they use

So if you use any of these letters in your advertisement IBO/ASA should you have to use these targets is the question??

ASA and IBO stand for more than speed and Lower or Center 11-12 ring..if you don't have the correct target you only have half the equation for a correctly ran representation of the Organization you are representing.

But if following all the rules including targets doesn't matter then only one thing matters $$$

Just bored and had been thinking about this topic for sometime..
In brief I say, "no". Restricting the targets would restrict the number of qualifiers which restricts opportunities for potentially recruiting new archers to competitive 3D. It is MOST important that there are shoots for folks to attend. It is more important that there are opportunities for newbies to participate than it is for us tournament players to have tournament targets. Restricting opportunities to recruit new members should be avoided when ever possible.

Sure if the game was very large and popular we could have more restrictions but 3D, at least around here, isn't big enough for either the ASA or the IBO to restrict user participation which is what would happen by restricting clubs to ONLY using "sanctioned" targets.

I do think it would be wise for any clubs advertising an "ASA" or "IBO" tournament to also note in the advertisement the type of targets being used. From what I've seen clubs hosting ASA and IBO qualifiers have always tried to have all the targets at least the right brand if not the most current models though it is NOT always possible. Does it matter if a couple of the 30 targets at an ASA qualifier are Rhineharts? For the vast majority of archers and most likely for ALL novices it does not negatively effect their enjoyment of the game.

In the end, having more participating clubs far out weighs any benefit having a complete course of current model tournament targets may provide.
 

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I play allot of golf and 40$ 50$ a round is common for a good course.. I think 3D archery clubs under prices the shoots they have if the course and targets are good... 25$ a round is a good starting point for a course that is well laid out with the correct targets in good condition. I don't think 25$ is allot to pay for quality heck I pay 15$ for a bucket of range balls at the local driving range and I just stand in one place and hit balls and the driving range is always busy.. If I had a quality range I would rather have 25 shooters paying 25$ on a Saturday then 50 shooters paying 10$! I would make more money have a larger profit margin and less up keep on my targets? Just some of my thinking out loud.. 3D archery is underpriced
A LOT of folks avoid golf because it is too expensive to play regularly!!! I remember many years ago a woman recommending my wife and I learn to play golf together. My wife looked into it and we both busted out laughing. At the time we could not afford for ONE of us to play on even a semi-regularly basis! I know archery is not really cheap, but with some effort a couple or parent and child can go shoot a game of archery for a lot less than they can play a round of golf.
 

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There are a few states that are very strong to what is used for qualifiers and to the state championship.......one club in Florida that has a qualifier in Florida doesn't have McKenzie's but they are a church and they are close with the R&W ....oh ya.....and IM getting Rich too....as someone thinks.......lol
 

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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #19
A LOT of folks avoid golf because it is too expensive to play regularly!!! I remember many years ago a woman recommending my wife and I learn to play golf together. My wife looked into it and we both busted out laughing. At the time we could not afford for ONE of us to play on even a semi-regularly basis! I know archery is not really cheap, but with some effort a couple or parent and child can go shoot a game of archery for a lot less than they can play a round of golf.
You are correct golf can get expensive I know !!!! But the one thing you have to love about golf is there are one set of rules all golfers follow no matter where you play and the integrity of the game!!! 3D Archery some where in the past missed the opportunity to unify a set of standards and rules for all who participate to follow. It headed in a direction of profit and disorganization. Just imagine if 20 years a few men would have set down wrote standard rules for all 3D competition to follow how far the sport could have advanced by now...
 

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jackaroo
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Discussion Starter #20
Only $5 each goes to ASA. The other $15 stays with the host club for all their work putting the shoot on. A club needs $10 a shooter just to break even so there isn't a lot of money being made.
Why are you charging so little and running the risk of just breaking even? Makes no business sense if all you do is set a goal to try to break even these clubs hosting ASA qualifiers won't last long term. If you can't make a profit how can you provide a good product with no revenue for up keep club targets etc.. The only way would be donations membership dues but if this is the case breaking even could work out for you for your hard work..
 
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