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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is the story,... again :)

When I was a kid I had no help shooting. No place to go. I had 4-H and they told us all the wrong stuff. Hold the bow up after you shot, pull trigger bla bla.... bad deal. BUT FUN!!


I have never pulled the trigger, I have ALWAYS squeezed like you would a target rifle. The shot has always come to me as a surprise,... meaning I never knew when the shot would go off. For years I thought I was shooting right.

After about a 10 year break from archery, I bought all new equipment and 2 videos. Strait Talk from the Pro's, and Holding Steady. Both of these tapes feature M. Ragsdeal explaining how to shoot. Now I find I have been shooting wrong for years!

This whole Back T thing was a surprise to me. I could not figure out how to squeeze my back muscles to make a "PULL TRIGGER" fire with out consciously pulling the trigger.

After a house fire I had some free time. I drove to Denver for a Week to shoot at an indoor range/pro shop. A few of the guys there gave me some tips.

I spent a total of 20 hours over 3 days trying to figure it out. It finally happened. I now see what every body is talking about when using Back T. I can now shoot Back T with my caliper release. I did have to adj my sights when I started shooting like this, but I figured it was because I was now shooting correctly.

On the video "Holding Steady" there is a guy in a green shirt. They show him holding steady, then they have him tense up his muscles in his bow arm and show him shaking do to the tensing.

When I start a flight, the first 2 arrows are great. The arrows just shoot on their own and they are so tight they are putting holes in vanes and busting nocks off. I’m happy with the first 2 shots. AFTER THAT, the 3-5 shot I start shacking like that guy in the video. I’m sure it is because I’m TENSING up my back mussels. But I don’t now how to shoot back T with out the T!!

I was told buy a forum member to turn down the poundage but I’m at 60# and I’m sure that isn't it. What causes this?

I shoot with my bow arm and hand relaxed... hand open even. After shot I allow the bow to go where ever it wants... normal it tilts a bit. I relax my string arm also so only my back muscles are holding the string. When the shot happens there is the explosion they are talking about. My trigger hand and arm fly backwards on their own, and the bow arm and bow move forward.

Is there something else I’m missing?
:confused:
:confused:
:confused:

Tim
 

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Rest between each shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
omg, it cannot be that simple can it?

Any body else?

Im going to wait 2 days then drive back to Denver (4 hours) to shoot at the range again.

Tim
 

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When I start a flight, the first 2 arrows are great.
That tells me that you are doing something right. Now move up close to the target and shut your eyes and shoot those great 2 shots...feel what that was like...take it in. now keep shooting with your eyes shut and hit your same anchor points and alignment. pay attention to what your scapula is doing, be sure to only move the release side of your back. make sure you are standing erect so your back is really into the shot.

on your 5th shot pay attention to how much tension is running through your body and arms. if you don't have tension, the problem is an issue of target panic once you get on a target. if you do have tension, your body is fatigued. either lower your draw weight, get a higher let off bow, or get in shape..

also try this...crank you bow down to 50 lbs and see what happens...

good shooting :)
 

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i have to say that if you have only been shooting back T for just a short time , it will take some time to build up to be able to shoot it consistanly for a 300 round .
sounds like your overaiming on your 3rd through 5th shot . because your using back T now your trying to aim to much and when you do this you tense the muscles in the bow arm . when this happens you end up with a unsteady sight picture which makes you want to try to help the shot to go off.

slow down relax and when you get to your 3rd , 4th and 5th shot if the sight picture doesnt feel right , LET DOWN . relax wait 15 seconds and then start again. over a period of time you will be able to execute all your shots with back tension .
Shoot Strong
Tony
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok thanks all.

I will do some of the blank bale shooting and some of the pull, aim, hold, and let down exercises.

After reading the replies it has to be that I’m just out of shape in the back muscles. My back was VERY VERY sore after the first time shooting like this.

YOU SAID only pull the back side with the release,.... I’m right handed so you mean only pull my release muscle to my spine right?... I should not be pulling BOTH muscles together?\


Tim
 

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I agree with Ian,(although everyone here has added useful input)slow down, relax between shots.I had this very problem,while in shape,my 5th arrow was either a linecutter or out.
You'll find that people have different methods on the push-pull,sqeezing of the back muscles,etc.
I try to keep my whole left side stationary but relaxed,letting the right side fire the release.(Rick McKinnys book is very helpful in this area).The left side is obviously doing some of the work,but I put no extra effort there.
I know there are others that do it differently.............this is something you will have to experiment with.
You'll find it takes a lot of time learning BT.
After a year of Stanislawskis, I recently went to a carter.Only because of swithing to a string loop,but,point is.......down went the score,but it is temporary and I know from experience just part of the learning process.
Sounds like your on the right track..........be patient,it will come.
Jerry
 

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I am just learning archery and I can tell you that it took me over two months to get to the point where I could pull a 50 lb. bow, with 50 percent let-off, without shaking all over the place. It takes time for the muscles, that you likely use for no other serious work, to develop. The fact that you have no problem with the first two arrows are very indicative.

I would suggest backing off 10 lbs if you can and then pulling, and releasing, the bow about 60 times every evening until you can draw the string to full draw with hardly any effort and without any obvious tension in the muscles. And, if you have the opportunity, shoot a 35 lb. straight, or recurve, bow at 20 yards for a few weeks -- something that has no let-off. One thing I have learned is that you have to enter the deep end gradually. You can't just jump in and expect to have any accuracy. The form, the strength, and the technique (or style) has to develop over time. You also have to learn how to diagnose problems -- as you are obviously doing here. So, patience is also required.

Take a deep breath, and relax, for about 15 seconds between every shot. And, you will probably need a stop watch at first. Fifteen seconds will be a LONG time. That would give you around three arrows a minute; assuming 5 seconds to load, draw, aim and fire -- or less than 5 mins. to shoot a dozen arrows. I know at first that I was trying to shoot too fast.

Jim Holloman
 

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Which shop are you going to in Denver? I might be able to suggest somebody for you to talk to. When are you heading back to Denver?

Relaxing in between shots should help, as fatigue can be a factor. Also you mentioned that you keep your bow hand open, this can cause more tension than you might think. Keep your bow hand relaxed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The range is really in Ft. Collins (about a 5 hour drive). It is called Arrow Dynamics. The people there are very nice, but the place is VERY busy and they can’t spend a lot of time with noob questions.

I say I’m a noob because of 2 reasons. 1, I haven't shot in 10 years and 2, I’m learning a new style of shooting. How ever I started shooting when I was a 7th grader , and shot 2-4 hours a day every day until after I graduated from High School.

When I was younger I shot in 4-H. They gave some bad advice so I did some studying on my own. Every year that I shot in 4-H, including my very 1st year, I made the team and placed no less then 3rd at the state shoot in Pueblo, CO (would have gotten 1st more often if it wasn’t for those dudes from Weld County :D ). I even had people come up to me when I was a Sophomore in high school and ask me to shoot at the Colorado State Games after the 4-H shoot. I would have loved to done that for the experience but at the time we were short on cash and could not afford the fee nor the stay.

I have always shot about 60-75 lb on a bow with a mass weight of 7.5 lbs (Martin Fire Cat). If I shoot the bow my OLD STYLE, I can shoot all day long not be shaky and score good. The pin simply floats around in the bull.

The reason for the post is because of me getting the shaky newbie symptoms when I started trying to shoot using a more correct style. I figured that with me having such a long break and just now getting back into it, that now would be the time to try new things and to learn the stuff I should have learned many years ago.

THANKS AGAIN ALL. The help you all are giving me is great.

If you have any more ideas keep them coming.

:D
Tim
 

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we're in the same boat

mrchaos101, I'm about like you. I used to be a serious shooter about 10 years ago,and I'm just starting to get back into it. I shot w/ fingers bowhunting and bowhunter tournaments. I recently started shooting a regular trigger release and developed a case of trigger punching/target panic. Then I started reading about this BT thing, something I have never heard of. So I ordered one of the new Copper John Eagle releases and I'm just waiting for it to arrive. I'm looking forward to learning to shoot w/BT. I was hoping to be ready to bowhunt by Sept. 27 when bow season opens here in TN but it sounds like it might take a while to learn this shooting technique from most of the threads I've read. Oh well, I'm just enjoying shooting again. Good luck.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Welcome back to archery!

I’m sure it will take a while to get use to it, but once you get a shot off using back T you will know. It took me a long time figure it out. I was getting mad at people because I could not figure out how Back T could be used with a pull trigger type release... I had to have a person show me before I could get.

Stay with it,... many people say there are many styles but if you start buying shooting videos they ALL say the same thing, to avoid punching/target panic, learn Back T .

Good luck and let me know if I can help with any thing I have learned.

Tim
 

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Back T shooting

Hey, you said that you learned of a BT technique using the caliper style release, right?

Well, I was wondering if you would share something on here, (kinda indepth) as to how you go about doing this.
I have read some others posting something along these lines and would certainly appreciate your imput. I prefer shooting with the trigger style of release and am interested in learning all that I can about this notion of BT with a trigger release. Does it include altering the trigger sensitivity, the length of release to position it diffferently,...etc.

Thanks,
bowtinkerer
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It is hard to go in depth. I took me about a month to figure it out....what I do is wrap my finger all the way around the trigger. DO NOT MAKE TRIGGER sensitive as this may fire the bow when you are not ready.

LOCK YOUR FINGER to the side of your face (anchor point). and then pull your arm in a back and down motion using your back muscle... at the same time you kind of use your left arm and push the bow forward.... it is hard to explain.

Your release will stay in the same spot because your finger is locked,....this causes my hand to kind of rotate and the fat meaty part of my finger above my knuckle will slowly pull into the trigger...IM NOT using finger muscles at all. It is all done using the back muscles.

I sat for hours in front of bails trying to learn it. I was pulling back so hard on my back that my arm would go as far back as it could and belly went into bow yet it never fired....I JUST TRIED AND TRIED until I learned to LOCK my finger.

I have another thread and I am wondering about Back T now, but a good 90% of the target shooters here will say go Back T. I’m just not sure it is for me yet. I wish to god I had could find an archery around here with a trigger less release that I could borrow for a few weeks. LOL I cannot afford one right now.
 

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BT release not for me

Mrchaos101, I got theCJ Eagle release and tried it and quickly realized it wasn't for me.The anchor was so much different I couldn't find a comfortable anchor point. I used it till I was wore out and my muscles were sore the next day. The next day I picked up my old release, a Winn C10, and drew my bow back and it felt soooo good! I decided right there and then that I was going to make it work with my old release, or if not with it I might try an antipunch trigger release like the Answer. I am basically just your typical bowhunter, not an X-shooter, so extreme hair splitting accuracy is not what I'm after. Most of the target shooters use BT and BT releases, most hunters use trigger releases. Although I will try to use some BT even while using my trigger, I'm not going to use pure BT or a pure BT release. Not my cup of tea.
 
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