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Discussion Starter #1
Hey...

I have been struggeling with this on my target (field/spots) rig for a little while, and was wondering what you guys thought. What is the best way to balance a bow with your stabs... I just bought a new stab and vbar setup for my XLR, and dont really know where to start when it comes to weight, (where and how much).

Is there a trick to this....?

Thanks..

B~ :darkbeer:
 

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Amen

I too have an XLR, which I love, but cannot seem to get the balance right. If you find a secret, let me know what it is.
 

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Long rod about 4" longer than your draw length with 4 oz of weight.
One side rod on opposite side of sight angled slightly down with 8 or 9 oz of weight. Side rod needs to point backwards towards you (between 90 degress and about 80 degress). This is a starting position. You will need to experiment with the weight and angle of the side rod.

When you strike the perfect balance you will know it straight away. The bow will feel lighter and balance / hold very well.

The amount of weigtht on the long rod and side rod will depend on your draw weight, physical weight of your bow and how mauch weight you can control, but typically you will have less on the long rod and more on the side rod.

This is the latest method of stabilising Compound bows.:smile:
 

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Here is a long article to read. This will help.

Our BASE weight is designed for this very purpose. Todays bows are notorious for having a top/front heavy feel, which more and more archers are finding to be an annoyance and not conducive for "ease of aim" , balance, and overall stability.

The BASE lowers your bows center of gravity , provides unmatched performance on the forward and lateral axis , provides a shooter friendly neutral balance , and can be adjusted for overall weight and weight placement both laterally and vertically to aid in balancing your bows sight and quiver.

The BASE essentially transforms your bow into a plumb bob, always working to keep your bow level and plumb.

Please feel free to contact me, I will be more than happy to explain the science and virtues of our BASE system.


Here's a brief comparison of the BASE to a high FOC front mounted stabilizer.

Ounce for ounce, length for length (from the axis of rotation) or grip.

We can compare balance, leverage, rotational inertia, and their effects on the bows center of gravity. For practical purposes our test model will be a naked static bow, its center of gravity located at the grip axis with its stabilizer bushing mounted 5” below.

Remember balance can be determined with leverage, which is calculated by weight times length, MOI is calculated by weight times the square of length. MOI of a uniform rod is calculated by weight times the square of half its length.

Our test stabilizers consisting of a 15 ounce BASE weight, and a 12 " long front mounted hunter class stab with a 12 ounce weight located on the distal end, adding its mounting rod it will have a total weight of 15 ounces matching that of the BASE.

Forward balance:

In practical terms adding a front stabilizer 12” in length with 12 ounces of distal weight and 3 ounces of rod will result in 153 ounces (12 X12) + ( 1.5X6)of leverage tilting your bow forward, not a good idea if you’re looking for anything close to a neutral balance. To overcome this forward balance you will need to add an equal amount of opposing leverage. You can accomplish this with an equal amount of weight placed an equal distance away, twice the weight at half the distance, half the weight at twice the distance and so on. Mounting the forward stabilizer in the mounting bushing located 5" below the grip axis will also have only a modest effect in lowering the bows center of gravity.

Mounting a 15 ounce BASE unit 12” below the grip axis will enable the bow to keep its shooter friendly neutral balance, while also dramatically lowering the bows center of gravity, resulting in a much more stable aiming platform.

Advantage BASE


Lateral balance:

lets now add a sight and quiver to the bow….these items will once again add an undesired amount of leverage acting upon the neutral balance of the bow , generally tilting the bow laterally to the right (right hand shooter) and slightly forward off axis.

The BASE weights can now be adjusted and biased laterally to compensate for the lateral disturbance in balance from the quiver, and depending on the geometry of the riser they can also be mounted slightly back on the riser to help compensate for the disturbance in balance from a forward mounted sight.

The front mounted stabilizer with uniform disc has no specific ability to balance your bow laterally.

The BASE is clearly more effective in balancing your bow on both the forward and horizontal axes.

Advantage BASE


Center of Gravity :

We know the bows original center of gravity was located at the grip axis prior to adding the sight and quiver, however the bows center of gravity is now higher with the addition of weight above its center axis. For practical purposes we will assume the sight and quiver combo weigh a combined 24 ounces, their weight concentrated six inches above the grip axis for a total leverage of 144 ounces. (6X24)

We know the front stabilizer bushing is located five inches below the center of the grip axis, the front mount stabilizer weighing 15 ounces and attached five inches below the grip has a leverage force of 75 (15 X5).... dreadfully short of the 144 number needed to bring the bows center of gravity back to neutral at the grip.

The BASE weighing 15 ounces and mounted 12” below the grip combine to give a leverage of 180, (15 X12) overcoming the values of the sight and quiver and lowering the bows center of gravity to an area below the grip.The BASE can lower your bows center of gravity almost two and a half times further than the front mounted unit.

The BASE is much more effective in lowering your bows center of gravity to the grip axis and below, resulting in a much more shooter friendly, stable, and forgiving platform.

Advantage BASE


Resistance to torque: MOI

Lateral axis. ( tilt forward / back)

In practical terms the front stabilizer will have a MOI value of 2028 on this axis, this is due to the 12 ounce mass being located 12" away from the bow, and 5” below the grip. The effective tangential length to square is extended to 13………. 12 ounces X 13X13 =2028 MOI

The BASE will always out perform a traditional front mounted unit in this area, ounce for ounce, inch for inch...here's how:

We have a front mounted unit with a length of 12" and a 12 ounce weight located at the end, all mounted 5" below the grip axis at the stabilizer bushing. We MUST also include the full weight of the stabilizers attachment rod into the equation of 3 ounces for a total of 15 ounces.

In this case the front mounted stabilizer weighing 12 ounces will have a rotational resistance of 2028. 12X13X13 not including the moments from the mounting rod.

The BASE with a TOTAL weight of 15 ounces, mounted 12" below the grip axis will have a value of 2160. (15X12X12)

This or course does not factor in the modest amount of added torque resistance from the mounting rod, which equals approximately 108, however we added additional moments by assuming the front stabilizers 12 ounce weight is centered at 12", which is impossible for hunter class stabilizers, the actual distance may be closer to 11.75...which would more than negate the added moments of the rod.

A more accurate representation of the numeric values on this axis would be (12X12.75X12.75) + rod (3X6X6) for a total of 2058.


Advantage BASE


Vertical axis (left right torque)

Forward stabilizer has a value of 1836 (12 ounces X 12 X12) + rod (3X6X6)

BASE has a value of 60. (15 X2 X2) ...Weights concentrated 2" away from the riser.

Advantage front stabilizer.



Forward axis : ( left / right cant)

Forward stabilizer has a value of 375 , regardless of disc size (15 ounces X 5 X 5)

BASE has a value of 2160. (15 ounces X 12 X12 )


Advantage BASE.

The BASE also has the advantage in rigidity by way of its mounting platform using the stiffest part of the bow, the riser.....most folks are also finding the BASE is much more effective at reducing vibration than its front mounted counterpart.


The BASE has the advantage its ability to aid in both forward and lateral balance, forward and lateral rotational resistance, center of gravity, efficient use of weight, versatility, and mounting rigidity.

The front stabilizer has the advantage through the vertical axis only.



BASE concentrated 12" from grip axis.
 

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Here is a long article to read. This will help.

Our BASE weight is designed for this very purpose. Todays bows are notorious for having a top/front heavy feel, which more and more archers are finding to be an annoyance and not conducive for "ease of aim" , balance, and overall stability.

The BASE lowers your bows center of gravity , provides unmatched performance on the forward and lateral axis , provides a shooter friendly neutral balance , and can be adjusted for overall weight and weight placement both laterally and vertically to aid in balancing your bows sight and quiver.

The BASE essentially transforms your bow into a plumb bob, always working to keep your bow level and plumb.

Please feel free to contact me, I will be more than happy to explain the science and virtues of our BASE system.


Here's a brief comparison of the BASE to a high FOC front mounted stabilizer.

Ounce for ounce, length for length (from the axis of rotation) or grip.

We can compare balance, leverage, rotational inertia, and their effects on the bows center of gravity. For practical purposes our test model will be a naked static bow, its center of gravity located at the grip axis with its stabilizer bushing mounted 5” below.

Remember balance can be determined with leverage, which is calculated by weight times length, MOI is calculated by weight times the square of length. MOI of a uniform rod is calculated by weight times the square of half its length.

Our test stabilizers consisting of a 15 ounce BASE weight, and a 12 " long front mounted hunter class stab with a 12 ounce weight located on the distal end, adding its mounting rod it will have a total weight of 15 ounces matching that of the BASE.

Forward balance:

In practical terms adding a front stabilizer 12” in length with 12 ounces of distal weight and 3 ounces of rod will result in 153 ounces (12 X12) + ( 1.5X6)of leverage tilting your bow forward, not a good idea if you’re looking for anything close to a neutral balance. To overcome this forward balance you will need to add an equal amount of opposing leverage. You can accomplish this with an equal amount of weight placed an equal distance away, twice the weight at half the distance, half the weight at twice the distance and so on. Mounting the forward stabilizer in the mounting bushing located 5" below the grip axis will also have only a modest effect in lowering the bows center of gravity.

Mounting a 15 ounce BASE unit 12” below the grip axis will enable the bow to keep its shooter friendly neutral balance, while also dramatically lowering the bows center of gravity, resulting in a much more stable aiming platform.

Advantage BASE


Lateral balance:

lets now add a sight and quiver to the bow….these items will once again add an undesired amount of leverage acting upon the neutral balance of the bow , generally tilting the bow laterally to the right (right hand shooter) and slightly forward off axis.

The BASE weights can now be adjusted and biased laterally to compensate for the lateral disturbance in balance from the quiver, and depending on the geometry of the riser they can also be mounted slightly back on the riser to help compensate for the disturbance in balance from a forward mounted sight.

The front mounted stabilizer with uniform disc has no specific ability to balance your bow laterally.

The BASE is clearly more effective in balancing your bow on both the forward and horizontal axes.

Advantage BASE


Center of Gravity :

We know the bows original center of gravity was located at the grip axis prior to adding the sight and quiver, however the bows center of gravity is now higher with the addition of weight above its center axis. For practical purposes we will assume the sight and quiver combo weigh a combined 24 ounces, their weight concentrated six inches above the grip axis for a total leverage of 144 ounces. (6X24)

We know the front stabilizer bushing is located five inches below the center of the grip axis, the front mount stabilizer weighing 15 ounces and attached five inches below the grip has a leverage force of 75 (15 X5).... dreadfully short of the 144 number needed to bring the bows center of gravity back to neutral at the grip.

The BASE weighing 15 ounces and mounted 12” below the grip combine to give a leverage of 180, (15 X12) overcoming the values of the sight and quiver and lowering the bows center of gravity to an area below the grip.The BASE can lower your bows center of gravity almost two and a half times further than the front mounted unit.

The BASE is much more effective in lowering your bows center of gravity to the grip axis and below, resulting in a much more shooter friendly, stable, and forgiving platform.

Advantage BASE


Resistance to torque: MOI

Lateral axis. ( tilt forward / back)

In practical terms the front stabilizer will have a MOI value of 2028 on this axis, this is due to the 12 ounce mass being located 12" away from the bow, and 5” below the grip. The effective tangential length to square is extended to 13………. 12 ounces X 13X13 =2028 MOI

The BASE will always out perform a traditional front mounted unit in this area, ounce for ounce, inch for inch...here's how:

We have a front mounted unit with a length of 12" and a 12 ounce weight located at the end, all mounted 5" below the grip axis at the stabilizer bushing. We MUST also include the full weight of the stabilizers attachment rod into the equation of 3 ounces for a total of 15 ounces.

In this case the front mounted stabilizer weighing 12 ounces will have a rotational resistance of 2028. 12X13X13 not including the moments from the mounting rod.

The BASE with a TOTAL weight of 15 ounces, mounted 12" below the grip axis will have a value of 2160. (15X12X12)

This or course does not factor in the modest amount of added torque resistance from the mounting rod, which equals approximately 108, however we added additional moments by assuming the front stabilizers 12 ounce weight is centered at 12", which is impossible for hunter class stabilizers, the actual distance may be closer to 11.75...which would more than negate the added moments of the rod.

A more accurate representation of the numeric values on this axis would be (12X12.75X12.75) + rod (3X6X6) for a total of 2058.


Advantage BASE


Vertical axis (left right torque)

Forward stabilizer has a value of 1836 (12 ounces X 12 X12) + rod (3X6X6)

BASE has a value of 60. (15 X2 X2) ...Weights concentrated 2" away from the riser.

Advantage front stabilizer.



Forward axis : ( left / right cant)

Forward stabilizer has a value of 375 , regardless of disc size (15 ounces X 5 X 5)

BASE has a value of 2160. (15 ounces X 12 X12 )


Advantage BASE.

The BASE also has the advantage in rigidity by way of its mounting platform using the stiffest part of the bow, the riser.....most folks are also finding the BASE is much more effective at reducing vibration than its front mounted counterpart.


The BASE has the advantage its ability to aid in both forward and lateral balance, forward and lateral rotational resistance, center of gravity, efficient use of weight, versatility, and mounting rigidity.

The front stabilizer has the advantage through the vertical axis only.



BASE concentrated 12" from grip axis.
Just what I was describing!
Weight and position of it is not a product, but science. For the majority of us the quickest way to science is a good starting point and experimentation. We have to consider the the human / machine interface afterall ,which science cannot control. In other words my method is better than yours ;-) and I am not promoting a product :smile:
 

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a standare formula is

length of front bar X weights you want out front devided by length of rear bar = how much weight you will ned on the back

for instiance

36" main X 5oz / 15" side rod=12 oz on side rod

note: this is with the rod strait back with no down ange
i would add an oz for every 2" you move it any way
i personally have a
36 with 5 on the front
15 with 15 on the end strait back

i like my bow to sit still after i shoot and not role foward but just a little bit
after the shot

hope this helps
 

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a standare formula is

length of front bar X weights you want out front devided by length of rear bar = how much weight you will ned on the back

for instiance

36" main X 5oz / 15" side rod=12 oz on side rod

note: this is with the rod strait back with no down ange
i would add an oz for every 2" you move it any way
i personally have a
36 with 5 on the front
15 with 15 on the end strait back

i like my bow to sit still after i shoot and not role foward but just a little bit
after the shot

hope this helps

I agree this is a good method. Nice one!
 

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a standare formula is

length of front bar X weights you want out front devided by length of rear bar = how much weight you will ned on the back

for instiance

36" main X 5oz / 15" side rod=12 oz on side rod

note: this is with the rod strait back with no down ange
i would add an oz for every 2" you move it any way
i personally have a
36 with 5 on the front
15 with 15 on the end strait back

i like my bow to sit still after i shoot and not role foward but just a little bit
after the shot

hope this helps
Thiis is what I do to get started and then:

I start out with the back bar as straight back as possible and go to the range and see how the bubble level in my scope sits. I then adjust the backbar out until it wants to sit level.

thenI make small adjustments untill it feels good. I actually ended up with 2 oz. on the front and 8 or 9 ounces on the rear. I would have to look at it to be sure. I also like a rig that does not roll forward or does so only slightly.

Good Luck,

Mason
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This is a big help... I appreciate all the info. It seems it really is just finding a starting point, and working with it till it feels best.

You would think that with an exact sport such as archery, there would be a clear cut and dry system. Not always so...

thanks again..

B~
 

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Brad, if your bow is strictly for target try this..

remove the string stop and mount your vbars from the rear hole, you would not belive the difference it make it holdng steady!!
 
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