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I'd like to read some good and fair discussion as to why scopes must be used and why they are in the lanes taking up more space than the archers?

I understand why they scopes are used. I think that one is enough. Why do two shooters have to have their own? Even with wide lanes the scopes take up more room than the archers. This makes sense? And with the 80 cm lane per archer configuration, that means that one archer on the right side of the lane, hugging the sideline because scopes are there, is butting up next to the archer standing on the left side of their lane, probably because they're hemmed in due to scopes in their lane. Now, if you used just one scope in the middle, then you can scope away, AND the archers have full access to their area, even though they're suppose to have a FULL 80 CM.

Yes, the rules state that an archer can "request" the scope be removed while they are shooting. How many of you, besides me, have heard word such as,
"There's plenty of room to stand inbetween the scopes," or, "My scope is more important than you."? Hmmm?

Idea, why not just use binocs? Nice, small, convient, and no one gets in the way.

Question: Why not just ban scopes? Seems to me that the more skillful archer is the one who gets the highest score without the scopes. If they were banned, then it would still be an level playing field. Does anyone know when and why the scopes were allowed on the line in the first place?
 

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Not sure when - I took almost a 20 year break from the sport.

I remember back in the day when a (shared?) scope was allowed on the line, but had to be removed when the archers were finished shooting each end. As this was rather inconvenient, most scope users left theirs behind the line & would step back to check the occaisional arrow in question.

At the closer distances a lot of shooters used binoculars.

BTW...don't see much (70 Meter) scope usage in the World Cup & Olympic videos on YouTube...
 

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I usually come to an arrangement with the archer on the other detail I tell him I don't mind if he leaves his scope there if he or she does not mind me looking through it. I set up my scope so that we can both see the target off the line.
 

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I agree that there are archers that setup there scope awkward. I always discus it with my lane mate. I also ask to share a scope and we pick the one that works best for both of us. Since we are almost always out on a field a pole instead that can be driven into the ground is much more convenient than a tripod. I’ve seen one a few times and it was (professionally) self-made.
A ban would go to far because binocs don’t do the same job at 90m or 70m. I do think you have a valid point that needs more attention.
 

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I never have had a problem unless say the guy on the same side of the line as you (if you are A line and he is B line) is a lefty. Normally at our shoots the tournament directors will put the two-four lefties together so they can share scopes.

I have a quick adjust grip on my scope so if I have to move it I can quickly get my target back but by investing in a really good scope, i have found that the guy I am sharing a target position with has always been more than happy to share my scope and we then set his back at the seats.

with so many people using white spin wings (I am a judge, I have called thousands of targets and white spin wings make up about 20% of the fletching choices) a set of even very good binoculars doesn't cut it at 90m
 

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Question: Why not just ban scopes? Seems to me that the more skillful archer is the one who gets the highest score without the scopes. If they were banned, then it would still be an level playing field. Does anyone know when and why the scopes were allowed on the line in the first place?
I'll skip the majority of your inflammatory rhetoric and skip right to the question. As you noted, the rules clearly allow for you to have enough room and ask to have scopes removed from the line if they are in your way. Since the rules have taken care of the problem, there is no reason to ban them.

I've never been at a shoot where people on the same bale refused to let others use their scope. Also, other archers have always asked me when setting up their scope if I had enough room and made sure it was not in my way. After reading your post, it SEEMS like it is possible you come to the line looking for scope problems and determined to find them no matter what. I bet you can have a lot of problems with scope users if you come to the line loaded like that.

-Andrew
 

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BTW...don't see much (70 Meter) scope usage in the World Cup & Olympic videos on YouTube...
True, but I think that at most of those events there is a huge projection screen with the scoring area magnified for the crowd that the archer can use also :)
 

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Calm down Spangler. rpd is not using "inflammatory rhetoric", he's describing a problem we both witnessed at the FITA 900 we shot last Saturday. Several of the lanes were completely taken up by tripods. To shoot one had to literally stand between the legs of someone else's tripod. In my lane we had to ask the guy with the scope (very wide spread legs on his tripod) to remove it. He was very nice about it, but then complained to his friends behind the line all day.

I believe rpd's suggestion of banning is to avoid arguments and hard feelings that can last through a tournament. And like so many rules it would be because too many people think of "self" and the (expletive deleted) with everyone else.

Dave
 

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Scopes at the Olympics

I was a volunteer at the 2000 Olympics at Sydney and was on the shooting field for most of the matches. All of the archers used scopes.

I have looked at tapes of the 2004 Olympics and it appeared that all archers had scopes.

In both of these events there was a large screen that the archer could also look at.
 

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One word...

easy solution..

Binoculars.:)
 

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I shot an ABC round once (all 3 archers shooting at the same time) and all three had enough space for spotting scopes. Not to mention if it was a AB - CD there would be even more space if there were 2 archers at a time.
 

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As a judge, I am well aware that I am entitled to a full 80cm of room, on the line. I am a scope user and utilize a 45 degree eyepiece and do not extend the tripod fully, thereby leaving a smaller footprint. I do stand with one of the tripod legs between my feet, thereby not forcing the archer to my right to do the same. I have had people complain about my scope even under these circumstances. I simply explain that under the rules I am entitled to the 80 cm (which I do not exceed) and the scope, and if they do not like it-tough.
 

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Calm down Spangler. rpd is not using "inflammatory rhetoric", he's describing a problem we both witnessed at the FITA 900 we shot last Saturday.
Dave, given the posts by rpd stating:
I have the right to ask for the scope to be removed, and I do, and the scopers cry and whine and stamp their feet,and then become mega men, walking around with their backs up as if someone just called them a pooh-pooh head.
And you know, I wouldn't care about that, at least your stuuuuupud scopes wouldn't take up 75% of the shooting lane.
I guess the next rule change would be to shoot six arrows in 3 minutes, just to keep you scopers from piddling around all day looking for your knock color.
Crybaby scope using wantabes.
Be a real archer, not a hi-tech scoping slave to hardware.
Seems to me that the more skillful archer is the one who gets the highest score without the scopes.
So according to rdp, scope users are using "stuuuuuupud" equipment, all take too long, are crybabies, not real archers, whiny, mega-men pooh-pooh heads, and have no skill. That sure sounds inflammatory to me. I don't think I'm the one who needs to calm down here.

Several of the lanes were completely taken up by tripods. To shoot one had to literally stand between the legs of someone else's tripod. In my lane we had to ask the guy with the scope (very wide spread legs on his tripod) to remove it. He was very nice about it, but then complained to his friends behind the line all day.
If I had to stand between the legs of someones tripod and wasn't comfortable, I would ask him/her to remove it from the line or come up with a better solution as well. I wouldn't think that all scopes should be banned because real archers don't use them.

For the record, I generally use a scope in practice, and for the first two ends but then remove it from the line and don't use it for the rest of the shoot.

-Andrew
 

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Noobie question...

Cut me some slack here, as I'll admit to never having been to one of these shoots. So if this seems naive, oh, well.

This 80cm thing. Are the lanes marked, like lines on a golf driving range? That would seem to set the boundries, and keep anyone from having to straddle a tripod that's not their own. It would also give a shooter that's using a scope, a clear marker that they're not allowed to cross. Otherwise, you'll get into a discussion about where your 80cm starts and ends.

With 80cm width, are there any limits on how far back your lane goes? If it's cramped beside you on the lane, maybe move the scopes behind you?
 

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As a judge...I simply explain that under the rules I am entitled to the 80 cm (which I do not exceed) and the scope, and if they do not like it-tough.

Wow - and you're a JUDGE!
 

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Monopods

By now, I would think that someone or some manufacturer in the archery business could make monopods (single legged scope stands) with a good base which could help alleviate the crowding.
 

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Rudeman,
I take that attitude because I have received very harsh verbal abuse, because of my scope. It is totally unwarranted because I take steps to stay within my 80cm, without inconveniencing the other archers on the line.
I have had to deal with similar issues, in a judging capacity, and generally am able to work some sort of compromise. However the rule is clear-the archer is entitled to 80cm of space, scope, or not.
I have no desire to alienate anyone, both as a shooter, and as a judge, but as long as I, or another shooter is staying within his assigned area, and is not encroaching upon his neighbor's area, he is entitled to every advantage given him, under the rules.
 

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As a Judge, Tournament Director and a Director of Shooting there are many issues that come up in a tournament. Not enough practice time, too much practice time, fees to high, why can’t you control the wind (lol) and the issue with scopes. Scopes on the line is the most mentioned issue. As was stated before, each archer has an 80cm-shooting lane to include the archer and his scope. I have found that the vast majority of archers are very accommodating to their fellow archers when asked politely. A lot of archers are afraid to ask. One of the ways to help all archers is for the tournament director to make announcements during practice and right before scoring reminding all archers about scopes and their fellow archers. After that it becomes a Judges ruling, but I find most archers understand and will always work with each other for a solution.

Mike Cullumber
Papago FITA Archers
Phoenix, AZ
 
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