Yeah they is a difference sorta kinda.
Getting a arrow with no fletching to fly good is a lot harder than using fletching. So in theory a bareshaft tune will yield a more forgiving and accurate bow. However when your bareshafting flaws in form and execution and draw length all show up.
When I set up a bow I bareshaft paper tune in my initial set up and then start going back with bareshaft and fletched and keep tuning to get them to hit together. Usually a bareshaft paper tune at say 6 foot yields a pretty good starting place and not just a bunch of adjustment needed

 

You'll hear different opinions on this but my opinion, based on a lot of experience, is that there is more error in paper tuning. Bareshaft tuning is simpler, doesn't require any special apparatus to shoot through and is more precise. The one thing paper tuning might help you do is determine if you have fletching contact, bullets with bareshaft but bad tears with fletched might tip you off, but you better know that before bothering to tune anyway.

If you have the right target and the distance to do it, just bareshaft tune starting at 10 and then 20 yards.

 

Huntinsker, that is one of my problems with bare shaft tuning. Everyone seems to think they can just say bare shaft tuning is better but they really never explain what exactly it really is. I know that I promote my method of bare shaft paper tuning but at the drop of a hat I can produce my full article that explains exactly how I do it.

I had this problem years ago with guys saying you need to do back tension, they rattled it off over and over and never really explained how it is done.

 

I almost forgot, you mentioned that you feel like bare shaft tuning is easier and also more precise. Could you elaborate on why you think it is more precise and what that means?

 

It's easier because it requires less equipment and you don't have to "read" a tear in paper that can be easily misread. It's more precise because you don't have to read a tear in paper that can be easily misread.

To answer your earlier post about no one explaining what bareshaft tuning is........Bareshaft tuning is simply tuning with bareshafts and comparing their angle of entry and POI in a target to fletched arrows. There's no secret to what it is. That's what it is. Whatever adjustments you have available to you based on the design of your equipment is what you can use to adjust while bareshaft tuning.

Too many people want to over complicate these things. It's all very simple stuff really.

 

I paper tune

I see no reason to bare shaft tune

 

LOL I skip paper and start with bare shaft.

Sent from my SM-G532M using Tapatalk

 

Scamper, I shot almost 40 tournaments per year with my best buddy and we talked about tuning all the time and had tons of debates. He held strong to his beliefs for almost 6 years until the day that I showed up with my bow that needed tuned along with tuning my arrows. Well, once he saw how I did things and how it worked our debates stopped. This is a are that has drastically changed in the last few years and the newest tuning methods simply did not exist so everyone who was already grandfathered in to their old methods simply has not done the new ones.

 

That's wonderful

I don't see the point because :

I don't actually shoot bare shafts. Mine are all fletched

There is an obvious difference in aerodynamics comparing the two

I just paper tune.

And it seems to work well

But to each his own

 

Paper tune a fletched arrow. This will get the arrow coming out of the bow correctly. Sight in to 20 yards. Then tune either bare shafts to fletched, or fletched to broadheads (hunting setup)


Semper Fi,
Mike

 

Bareshaft tuning at 10, 20, 30 + yards shows you actual arrow flight without any course correction. So, if you shoot a fletched arrow, the vanes have less work to do to correct flight. This is why many believe bareshaft tuning is best. For indoor spots, it probably is. Now, I have found with target archery beyond 20 yards, many bows for me have performed better with a slightly off bareshaft (slight paper tear). In almost every case, a bareshaft that hits a bit low has giving me the best long range accuracy. Why? I have no idea. It just does.

I like to start my tune with a perfect bareshaft. Then I line tune out to 60+ yards. On most bows, not all, I have to make slight rest adjustments to get my best results. It almost always ends, when I go back to check bareshaft, 1-3" low. Usually an inch at 20 for the average. On some bows even a left or right tear bareshaft yields better results but that is uncommon. The Prevail 37 SVX did. Shot it best with a left and low bareshaft but it wasn't way off. So why? Why did some shoot better slightly out of tune. My opinion is because I am flawed. I think super minor, but repeatable flaws in technique and form cause these results. Now, the Elite Victory 37 was dead on bareshaft results to 40 yards and line tune was awesome needing no adjustments at all. The Victory 39 shot best with a low left bareshaft. The Hoyt Prevail 37 was the same. The Hoyt ProForce was good left and right but my line tune was best slightly low at 30 yards and 20 was low by about 1/2"- 1 inch. My Invicta 37 SVX so far seems to like the bareshaft hitting just right and pretty much level for indoors but I have not line tuned it yet.

The best tune is what delivers the best results. For 99.9999% a 20 yard bareshaft tune is stupid close to perfect if not perfect.



Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

Bareshaft tuning at 10, 20, 30 + yards shows you actual arrow flight without any course correction. So, if you shoot a fletched arrow, the vanes have less work to do to correct flight. This is why many believe bareshaft tuning is best. For indoor spots, it probably is. Now, I have found with target archery beyond 20 yards, many bows for me have performed better with a slightly off bareshaft (slight paper tear). In almost every case, a bareshaft that hits a bit low has giving me the best long range accuracy. Why? I have no idea. It just does.

I like to start my tune with a perfect bareshaft. Then I line tune out to 60+ yards. On most bows, not all, I have to make slight rest adjustments to get my best results. It almost always ends, when I go back to check bareshaft, 1-3" low. Usually an inch at 20 for the average. On some bows even a left or right tear bareshaft yields better results but that is uncommon. The Prevail 37 SVX did. Shot it best with a left and low bareshaft but it wasn't way off. So why? Why did some shoot better slightly out of tune. My opinion is because I am flawed. I think super minor, but repeatable flaws in technique and form cause these results. Now, the Elite Victory 37 was dead on bareshaft results to 40 yards and line tune was awesome needing no adjustments at all. The Victory 39 shot best with a low left bareshaft. The Hoyt Prevail 37 was the same. The Hoyt ProForce was good left and right but my line tune was best slightly low at 30 yards and 20 was low by about 1/2"- 1 inch. My Invicta 37 SVX so far seems to like the bareshaft hitting just right and pretty much level for indoors but I have not line tuned it yet.

The best tune is what delivers the best results. For 99.9999% a 20 yard bareshaft tune is stupid close to perfect if not perfect.



Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

Many target shooters find a slight tear to be more precise, IMO it's slightly more forgiving. Many think this a bad analogy, but in my mind it's like balancing a pencil on it's tip- perfectly balanced it can fall any direction, but leaned slightly [braced against your finger] and it will generally fall one direction.

 

Go watch Tim Gillingham’s Arrow University on Gold Tip’s YouTube channel. He goes in depth about tuning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Worked at a archery shop. One thing I would not do is paper tune for a customer. I would have them shoot and I'd help or correct whatever they were doing wrong. They wouldn't listen I walked away....

Paper tuning with a fletched shaft will get you close....if you're doing your part.

Paper tuning with a bare shaft will get you closer, but you really got to do your part.

Said is bare shaft/fletched tuned at 20 yards is all one needs. Some can do great at longer distances...

I did not use factory center shot spec. It was off. I used a arrow taped to the riser and moved rest so the nocked arrow was parallel to the taped arrow on riser..........

Last month, wind howling there was no French tuning (9 feet for close and 50 yards for long). Didn't want to, but the bow had to be tuned, so shooting through paper with a bare shaft. I was close right off the bat - some would have said good enough and tuned from there. I tuned with results from 6, 8 and 10 feet. Saw what I needed and made adjustment. 2 shots from 6 feet and 8 feet told of too much of adjustment. Adjusted and got 2 bullet holes from 6 and 10 feet. I then went outside. Wind still howling, but 10 and 15 yards proved pretty good. And then I tried 20 yards and still good.....So from inside the garage from 6 and 8 feet to outside from 20 yards no adjustment was needed....A few days later, less wind, and results were still good............

Wind blowing like it was it was tough shooting and then using a hinge. I let down more times than I can remember...

Paper - read from right to left - shot right to left. Ah...typo in pic. Two on left; 10 ft and 6 feet.

Shooting for the tubing hole.....

Picture by nuts&bolts - I'm too lazy to take my own.

 

Thanks huntinsker, I can respect that totally. Once you have something you really enjoy and you can see very good results you are good to go. I know I say it a lot in these threads but I hate tuning and only do it every few months to touch up my bow or when I put on a new string set. But I totally can understand that if you have a method that can be done in a short amount of time and give excellent results then it is a great method or approach. That is why I always say that unless I run into a issue I am done in 20 minutes with my arrow flight and I am perfect.

 

Now, the other issue brought up in this thread in the last few responses is the pro shooter grouping better with a slight tear. I have been debating on this concept or subject area for years and I do believe that I have a answer. I believe it is two fold. So here they are.

1. Most pro shooters in the last generation have been shooting blade rests and they are hard to tune to perfect arrow flight because of the fact the blade does not drop completely out of the way and you have fletching clearance issues. So by the pro shooters lack of ability to tune perfect arrow flight they have accepted a slight high right tear that gives them fletching clearance.

2. Now this is the second part that is more iffy, I believe the first part is solid but this one is different and my opinion. I believe that pro shooters for the most part do not group tune their arrows correctly. So their batch of arrows are shooting a poor group right out of the box. Now, the fact that they have a high right tear built right into their bow tuning job I believe that that bend that they are putting into each arrow that is not grouping well actually helps the whole batch of arrows hit tighter than they would if the arrow flight was perfect. If the arrow flight is perfect with a poorly grouping arrow set then the arrows are going to spray around more. But with the built in high right tear it cleans it up.

 

Now, how do I get around this with my setup and get awesome results from my perfectly tuned bow? Because my bow absolutely does not have a high right tear.

Because I group tune my arrows to the same hole accuracy at 20 yards so that all of them hit absolutely perfect and the same at all times. So I don't need a high right tear to fix my poorly grouped arrows.

After all these years this is the only thing I have been able to come up with, It is totally opinion but we have done tons of these threads where the pro high right tear is discussed or thrown in our face as a justification for poor arrow flight being a good thing.

One thing I must see in my shooting is the fact that my arrows must hit behind my pin, that is my definition of a very forgiving bow setup when no matter where my pin is at my arrows hit right there. I am a amateur level shooter and a good one which means my pin is on the edge of 12 rings and x's all the time instead of dead on like a stud pro shooter so I do miss 12 rings a lot and hit a lot of them but the fact is that my arrows hit right where the pin was when I fired. If I was a stud pro shooter I really think my setup would send me over the top and give me a huge advantage but I simply am not that guy.

 

Telerado,

1. Your bare shafts and fletched and broadheads will not hit together if the arrows are not group tuned

2. Your bare shafts and fletched and broadheads will not hit together if the shafts are coming out crooked because the bare shafts have no fletching to correct the poor arrow flight and then the fletched arrows get corrected giving them a second point of impact and then the broadheads are a steering rudder giving them a third point of impact.

So until you get the arrow shaft perfect so that the fletching doesn't have to correct things and the broadhead isn't a rudder you are going to suffer.

This is why I get bullet holes out of my bare shafts at 20 yards because once I can get to this point my fletching has nothing to correct and my broadhead isn't going to be a rudder. They will all three hit the same within reason.

 

For those who shoot well bare shafting is something of piece of cake, but to think every one can is kind of absurd.

 

But if you can't shoot consistently enough to bareshaft tune, can you really shoot consistently enough to tune at all? I mean if you're saying that shooting bareshafts is too hard for people to do and shooting holes in paper is easier and better suited for the lesser skilled shooters aren't you essentially saying that paper tuning is inherently "less good" or less precise?

What is paper tuning, the participation award of tuning techniques? You're not good enough to bareshaft tune so here's a piece of paper. Go put some holes in it and hang it on the fridge? Don't be upset if your arrow flight isn't actually that good when you're done.

If that's the case then why bother at all? Personally I think people exaggerate how difficult it is to shoot bareshafts consistently. I had my wife bareshaft tuning her bow after she had shot for 2 months. It wasn't that difficult. She's special to me but she isn't some special archery talent. And let's face it, if you're not able to shoot bareshafts consistently, you're not able to shoot ANY shafts consistently. Just because a set of fletching will cover up your bad arrow flight and make a neat hole in paper does not mean that you're getting good arrow flight by shooting them through paper.

 

For those who shoot well bare shafting is something of piece of cake, but to think every one can is kind of absurd.

 

I use a combination of bareshaft and paper tuning....

• I shoot through paper until I get a good tear at 3 yards with fletched and bare shaft.
• I bareshaft tune at 10, 15 and 20 yards.
• Once I get bareshafts hitting with fletched at 20 yards, I go back and shoot through paper. As long as the results through paper are acceptable, I call it tuned.

I've had a few instances where the paper tear at 3 yards was "a little off" but the bow shot fantastic. So I give more "weight" to bareshaft than paper tune results.

I have a customer who brought his bow in for strings and a tune. He left my shop with a basic set up and homework. His form wasn't sufficient to get a consistent tear through paper, (He shot the same arrow through paper 10 times and had 4 different tears) so he is practicing form at home and he's to come back when he can produce a consistent tear and we will finish the tune.

Note - That customer is very confused as to why "I" say his bow isn't done. According to him, it "shoots great" and "puts rages through cages" so I doubt he's really putting the effort into his "homework".

 

Paper tuning should be done with bareshafts, so there is some overlap. You are trying to make sure the arrow leaves the bow straight so there is less work for the fletching to do. If my compound bow will shoot bareshafts with fletched to 40 yards, I am ready to try broadheads. With my Recurve, I shoot bareshafts to 20 yards then try broadheads.

 

I call this s well-tuneded bow. This is from my spot bow. My 3D bow does the exact same thing.

Automan

 

I call this s well-tuneded bow. This is from my spot bow. My 3D bow does the exact same thing.

Automan

Made your pic a bit smaller........
Maybe not just like yours, but then shooting in the wind didn't help matters and then using a hinge that I fight dang near every day. Yep, shooting for the hole...

 

I start here. This is pre line tune. And this is done with a 30X 150 spine Gold Tip cut 27" ctc and only 100 grain points. I will be doing a line tune this weekend to check. That said, I just shot my first 300 and followed that up with a 299. My X count was "meh" but I was outdoors and a bit windy. I may leave well enough alone as I'm only shooting these faces right now as 3D season is a bit down the road.

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

Bow shot great with the right bareshaft. Now it usually hits slight right after tuning. A poor execution and it hits between these two pics. Funny thing is a poor execution with a bareshaft it goes right. Funny how almost all my misses with a fletched arrow is left. Any correlation? I don't know.

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

 

I never bare shaft tuned until this past year...30+ years of shooting. I’ve never shot tight groups at 60 yards until this past year. I don’t have the wisdom of many but I’m pretty sold on bare shaft tuning over paper tuning.

 

Good stuff and thank you for your input. I apologize for not adding that I shoot fingers. Different realm, I recuse myself.

 

No worries. Shooting fingers you can still do all those things I listed but some of them will be opposite directions to move things. The grip pressure will stay consistent though.

 

These types of threads are kind of misleading . And don't get upset. Let me explain. Bare shaft tuning will give you a better shooting , more accurate, more forgiving bow. In theory. But there is sooooo much more to that. And most of the people on forums will not be able to get 100% out of it. What do I mean? Factors like form, grip torque, arrow length, arrow spine also play into this formula for a perfect bullet hole. WHich as I stated, most will never be able to get. SO if one can get a good hole with fletching at 5 yards with all the inconsistant variables each archer has is a great and achievable goal

 

OP: welcome to the rabbit hole. I'll caveat my opinions with this:

(1) If your form isn't solid and consistent, you will get inconsistent results and be wasting your time.
(2) If you are OK with minute-of-venison accuracy (5-8" groups at 30 yards), you are also wasting your time, because even bows horribly out of tune will get you on target.
(3) There is no "magic" tune that will automatically make you a better archer. Keeping your form solid and consistent makes you a better archer.

I paper tune at 3 yards to get an INITIAL idea of where my arrow rest center shot SHOULD BE.

I then proceed to bareshaft tune (not through paper) at 10, 15 and 20 yards. I use more than one bareshaft to eliminate potential arrow inconsistencies. I can never get perfect at 20 yards, I'm not that good of a shot (I can shoot consistent upper 290s on NFAA 5 spots and I've NEVER shot a 300, but I'm damn close), so I generally stop bareshafts at that distance. If I am ONLY target shooting, I'm nearly done tuning at this point.

I MAY nock tune, especially with a lesser quality set of arrows. I'm currently shooting PS23s and only had one arrow out of my dozen that consistently impacted left... turned the nock 45 degrees and now it groups with the rest.

Finally I broadhead tune, only for hunting purposes. Usually if my bareshafts are on, my broadheads are close (impact within 1-2" at 20 yards). Very fine movements on the rest/shims/yokes/cable guard and what not until I get it where I want it.

Keep in mind, even a bow with a horrible left/right/up/down tear will still group where it's sighted in it. But a fine tuned bow will group tighter and more consistently.

 

And what bothers some people is my French tuning that gives results like bare shaft tuning. And of things to shoot a Robin Hood with a bare shaft. Didn't mean to, but nocked the bare shaft without looking. Had it nock and said; Heck with it and shot it. So what pictures I've shown, these are Harvest Time Archery H3s when Bart still owned the company, Virtue H3s from Muddy Outdoors and No Limit Liberties - all in .400" spine.........All 20 yards.

So 2 in the 14 ring and 1 just low of the X. 2nd pic, fired a 3rd arrow to show I was on that day - compare to what's left of the X ring.