Archery Talk Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
After an initial paper tune (save a few trips from the back yard to the press) I moved to bareshaft tuning. After a few flexis (Prime Black 5), Rest, and cable adjustments I have my bareshaft grouping with fletched at 20 and 30 yards with entry angle being identical.

After bare shafting I moved to a French tune to align the sight and the rest. In order to do so I realized I’m moving the rest out of the alignment that gave me perfect bare shaft flight. Sure enough I fired another bare shaft and it was wide right with a heavy nock left. I imoved it back to its original position.

Do you do a French or walk back tune after you bare shaft? Wouldn’t that negate the work you just did to get the best bare shaft flight by adjusting horizontal nock travel with any rest adjustments (it did for me)? Is it one or the other?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
You’re gonna get a lot of different opinions on this. Personally, I don’t bare shaft. You’re correct though, going to a walk back tune from bare shaft will change your bare shaft flight. If your bare shaft and fletched shaft hit together at 30 yards, I would skip the walk back tune and just move your sight to have point of impact in the spot and leave the rest alone. You can keep shooting a bare shaft and fletched at longer yardage if you’re comfortable and make very slight modifications if the group begins to spread.

Gonna have to play around a little and find out what works best for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,229 Posts
walkback and French tunning would have been done before bareshaft if you choose to do them,however I don't waist my time with either.i bareshaft tune and then set my sight to that.once done your sight should be good unless you have a sight axis that needs to be adjusted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,647 Posts
I paper tune (nock tune) my bare shaft, then bare shaft tune and that is it. I verify the tune by shooting a broad head. Rarely do I have to adjust anything after BS tune. Simply adjust your sight at 20 yards and your left/right should be good as far back as you want to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
812 Posts
Use one tuning method YOU have confidence in. Multiple methods will have you chasing your tail. Then work on your shooting style and repeatability. The shooter is always the variable in the system. Opinions will vary.
 

·
Back Yard Champion
Joined
·
29,762 Posts
Bare shaft tuning is one manner of finding center shot. French tuning in another manner of finding center shot. You don't mix them.

Beings you had your rest set with bare shaft tuning why would you move it with going to French tuning? Okay, rest set, you sight in at 3 yards. Okay, you move sight to start, not the rest.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Bare shaft tuning is one manner of finding center shot. French tuning in another manner of finding center shot. You don't mix them.

Beings you had your rest set with bare shaft tuning why would you move it with going to French tuning? Okay, rest set, you sight in at 3 yards. Okay, you move sight to start, not the rest.
Makes sense. Many ways to find centershot but they don’t mix. Have you found that one way works better than the other?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,553 Posts
I set arrow at center shot first. I tune around that with a bare shaft at 10 yards. I adjust yokes or shims accordingly. Recheck center shot and make sure arrow is straight down the middle. Adjust rest again and 10 yard bareshaft. Get that 100%. Now I go to 20 yards or go straight to line tune at 60 yards. I have found that a good 20 or 30 yard bareshaft (did 40 once) is usually as good as it gets BUT.... not always. My Prevail shot it's best with a 20 yard left and low bareshaft (approximately 3 inches left and 3 inches low) and my Invicta shoots best with a dead center 20 yard bareshaft but 6 inches low. At 10 yards they will Robin Hood so I intentionally shoot to one side or the other just to save money. Bareshaft perfect results do not always shoot the best scores or groups at distance.

Here are some picks at 10 and 20...


Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,645 Posts
After an initial paper tune (save a few trips from the back yard to the press) I moved to bareshaft tuning. After a few flexis (Prime Black 5), Rest, and cable adjustments I have my bareshaft grouping with fletched at 20 and 30 yards with entry angle being identical.

After bare shafting I moved to a French tune to align the sight and the rest. In order to do so I realized I’m moving the rest out of the alignment that gave me perfect bare shaft flight. Sure enough I fired another bare shaft and it was wide right with a heavy nock left. I imoved it back to its original position.

Do you do a French or walk back tune after you bare shaft? Wouldn’t that negate the work you just did to get the best bare shaft flight by adjusting horizontal nock travel with any rest adjustments (it did for me)? Is it one or the other?
Welcome to the enlightenment. You chose the red pill. If you ever "need" to French or "walkback tune", your sight just isn't set properly for windage. Move back to your longest distance that you can comfortably hold a group and adjust your windage there. You'll never need French or "walkback tuning" again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,145 Posts
The purpose of bare shaft tuning is to tune the bow by setting the arrow rest so that the arrow sits perfectly parallel to the riser. Then by reading the entry angle of the arrow into the target. Make adjustments to the bow cables, yokes or shims.

In French tuning once a basic tune is done such as timing the cams the arrow flight adjustments are based on moving the rest and sight.

They are both different methods to achieve the same result. Though they are not meant to be combined due to being based on two different tuning philosophies.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
First thing I do is set center shot to factory recommendations. Then I use my bow square and put on edge of riser and measure what my string is at . If they are close , I shoot a bare shaft through paper. Now from their I can do the rest a lot of different ways and end in the same exact spot . Some say walk back or French tuning is no good. But I have done both and still end up with a tuned bow that shoots bare shaft bullet holes. But the easiest I have found is the first way. Put center shot to factory, measure string at brace. What I’m referring to is if I set my center shot to say ( I’m gonna use a 14/16 “ number) Or 7/8”. My Ritual 35 says put between 13/16 and 15/16. Now if I measure my string and it isn’t within the 13 to 15/16 then I shim my cams. When both are as close as I can get them I shoot a bareshaft through paper at 3’ and 3 yards. Bullet hole, I go to 10 yards, then 20 yards. When my bare shaft is done. I put up a piece of black electrical tape vertically with a level and I don’t touch anything but my sight . When I consistently hit tape, I move back to 40 yards. I should be very close, or maybe a sight tweet. Then I go to 60, and 80 yards. When done, I put a horizontal piece of tape with a knee piece of vertical tape and aim at center of tape crossing and set my pin for 20 yards and then 60 yards. Get my tape I need and put that tape on my sight. Then shoot a lot of random yardages to confirm correct tape. I use only a bareshaft and use 3 different ones to get bareshaft part done. Then I knock tune each bareshaft, mark it, fletch , then I do my pin setting for yardages. I never use a fletched shaft for center shot settings and the first tuning out to 20 yards , and sometimes 30. Fletching shoes way to much of a bad arrow flight. Which I have used fletched arrows, and at 30 yards hit a 1” spot with 3 arrows slapping together and busting nocks, and be like, “damn”. Then shoot a bare shaft and the point hit 3” right being 3” left of point. What do you do? Lol. I retune with a bare shaft, I just can’t , not do it. A bare shaft that’s not perfect and hitting the spot at least 20 yards , my mind just want let me not do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,390 Posts
I really learned the hard way about tuning. Without a perfect grip every time the results will be different every time. I do not have a perfect grip, and with a past surgery on grip hand never will. What I have found is get center shot lined up by sight, level arrow from string, make sure 2 axis is correct, and go to shooting. Move out to 50-60 yds as soon as I can and group tune watching flight of arrow and grouping in target. Not opposed to moving rest left or right, but if flight is good I leave alone. Do this at different times because your muscles with feel different as day goes on. If you are grouping at 60, you will be grouping at 20.
I also found that most time we want to shoot to long a DL. Getting DL correct first then tuning is the way to go.
 

·
Back Yard Champion
Joined
·
29,762 Posts
For the last 10 years I've had nothing but binary cams - yokes to play with. I don't believe in shimming.

I think I have tried just about every manner of finding center shot and every type of cam system. One thing I've found specific factory center shot is not always what they say. I've set center shot to factory spec and shot bullet holes with both bare shaft and fletched arrows at 6 and 8 feet. Shooting farther proved center shot way off.

I tried taping a arrow to the riser and setting rest arrow parallel and this proved good, but needed tweaked a bit.

I've eye balled center shot and center shot proved good, but again needed tweaked a bit. For years I eyeballed center shot and my bows proved great for finish tuning.

And I've tried bare shaft tuning. I do well sometimes. 10 yards no problem. 20 yards can proving tasking for me. Some say it's because of my artificial wrist/thumb joint.

My usual tune procedure began with eyeballing center shot. Eyes good I can be as close as taping a arrow to the riser. I would then go with French tuning. Rare would be moving the rest any great amount, sometimes proving thousands of a inch - like .002"

Set up my new 2006 Hoyt ProElite. Timing dead on, levels used to mount rest and set nocking point. I know me and set the sight so much to the left of the string and the 20 yard pin 3 3/8" above the arrow shot - rest raised. No other tuning performed. From the bow vice to the indoor practice range. I was low left with the first shot. Adjusted sight. Second shot was slightly low and left. Adjusted sight again. Third was in the bull's eye. Feeling good I finished the 5 spot, fine adjusting the sight as I shot. I finished with a 298 and a good number of Xs. Not what I call a tuned bow, but it shot great. I later fine tuned the bow.

Quote of Bernie Pellerite;
"Tuning can only be relevant if you have consistent form; and if you have consistent form, tuning becomes irrelavent."
Okay, you repeat, the bow will repeat...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,598 Posts
Is your tuning goal best groups [i.e. 3-spot and 5-spot rounds] or is your goal most efficient [i.e. straightest] broadhead flight? Best groups doesn't always equate to perfect bullet holes or bareshaft/fletched groups and best groups don't always equate to perfect arrow flight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,390 Posts
Is your tuning goal best groups [i.e. 3-spot and 5-spot rounds] or is your goal most efficient [i.e. straightest] broadhead flight? Best groups doesn't always equate to perfect bullet holes or bareshaft/fletched groups and best groups don't always equate to perfect arrow flight.
Good point. I only shoot 3d, so Im sure there would have to be some different adjustment with BH. Im about to set one up a hunting bow, so I will see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
181 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Is your tuning goal best groups [i.e. 3-spot and 5-spot rounds] or is your goal most efficient [i.e. straightest] broadhead flight? Best groups doesn't always equate to perfect bullet holes or bareshaft/fletched groups and best groups don't always equate to perfect arrow flight.
Does one method of tuning lend more to group accuracy than another?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Do you shoot unfletched arrows when your hunting or target shooting...if the answer is no then why waste your time bareshaft tuning its completely irrelevant what the arrow does without fletchings this is my opinion im sure theres reasons why it make sense to do it i just dont waste my time with it pick one way to tune your arrows and stick with it or you will chase your tail...one tuning method over the other isnt going to miraculously put all your arrows in the middle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Do you shoot unfletched arrows when your hunting or target shooting...if the answer is no then why waste your time bareshaft tuning its completely irrelevant what the arrow does without fletchings this is my opinion im sure theres reasons why it make sense to do it i just dont waste my time with it pick one way to tune your arrows and stick with it or you will chase your tail...one tuning method over the other isnt going to miraculously put all your arrows in the middle
Not necessarily.

If your arrow is coming off of the bow nearly perfect without Fletchings or feathers then your arrow flight is perfect. Shoot a bareshaft at a substantial target and if it flies like a dart...you're done tuning that arrow.

Fletch that arrow and spin a broadhead on it. You will not have bad flight. In my experience this makes your setup much more forgiving. I don't want my Fletchings to be constantly working overtime because my arrow is coming off of the bow sideways. Kills penetration and speed. For hunting this is crucial.

This is one man's experience.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,553 Posts
As I'm sure this is gonna ruffle some feathers, in my experience, a 10 yard bareshaft is all that is needed. All my bows bareshaft at 10, most at 20, some out to 40. Consistently, the ones which bareshaft only to 10 yards have been by far my most accurate. Why? I have no idea.

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk
 

·
(aka lug nut)
Joined
·
49,655 Posts
Do you shoot unfletched arrows when your hunting or target shooting...if the answer is no then why waste your time bareshaft tuning its completely irrelevant what the arrow does without fletchings this is my opinion im sure theres reasons why it make sense to do it i just dont waste my time with it pick one way to tune your arrows and stick with it or you will chase your tail...one tuning method over the other isnt going to miraculously put all your arrows in the middle
Cuz it a TUNING tool. Can you shoot one arrow groups at 20 yards? You use a DIAGNOSTIC tool, to figure out how to get to one arrow groups at 20 yards.
Fella asked me if I could boost his x-count on the NFAA target, with only 7 days prior to his tournament. I said, need ya to do a diagnostic test. He tells me he NEVER shoots bareshafts,
NEVER competes with bareshafts, never hunts with bareshafts...so WHY should he shoot a bareshaft now?!!!! He says he averages 300s all the time on the NFAA target. He says he shoots 550+ on a field archery course. I say, fine. Prove it. Three fletched and 1 bareshaft at 20 yards.



So, after he shoots a bareshaft at 20 yards, for the FIRST time...ever, he is gob-smacked.



BUT, my fletched all touch at 20 yards all the time. I say, yup. Oh yeah. By the way. Yes, I can absolutely tighten up your groups, increase your x-count in less than 7 days, based on his test results. So, his AFTER results, after we tweak one thing.



That's his NEW group size, at 20 yards, firing ONE fletched arrow in his quiver. Yup, that means he fired his ONE fletched arrow for 21 shots in a row. Yup, he had to walk to the target, and pull out his ONE arrow, and return to the shooting line, and fire his ONE arrow again. ONE arrow group size. That's 21 robin hoods at 20 yards. Or, that's 21 busted nocks in a row, at 20 yards. THIS is why you shoot a bareshaft. To figure out what to tweak.

So, if you are a target shooter, do what's you gots to do, to get to one arrow group diameter groups at 20 yards. His x-count at 20 yards is now higher.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top