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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
 

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Below is from tmo's sticky on hybrid cams in the PSE subforum of the Brand Specific Forum. Good stuff.


b. Let’s talk about twisting and the effect of each move on a hybrid cam;
i. Buss cable- a twist in the buss cable advances the top cam (makes it hit sooner), it lengthens draw length, decreases ATA and increases letoff/valley (assuming timing was even before the twist).
ii. Control cable- a twist in the control cable slows down the top cam, shortens draw length. It’s effect on ATA, valley and letoff are dependant on the others.
iii. String- a twist in the string shortens draw length, valley and decreases letoff. It plays a role in ATA and draw weight but it is secondary to to the buss.
iv. All- a twist out produces the opposite effect.
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.


Not just for PSE bows, NOT just for Hoyt bows...

for any bow that that has a three part rigging system.

1) if the bow has a bowstring

2) if the bow has a Y shaped cable....old timers call this the POWER cable...nowadays folks will call this the buss cable, or the YOKE cable
....the YOKE cable has three end loops...TOP two end loops attach to the top axle, has TWO short legs...and a really really LONG center elg

3) if the bow has a third cable, a "rope" with two ends, this is called the control cable.
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
The YOKE cable holds the bow together
and the YOKE cable squeezes the limb tips.

When you SQUEEZE the limb tips MORE, this shortens your Axle to Axle length...obviously.

When you SQUEEZE the limb tips MORE, this does several things...

1) makes the draw weight higher, obviously
2) but, this also makes the brace height BIGGER
3) but, this also makes the HOLDING weight drop LOWER
4) but, this also makes the draw LENGTH for the BOW...get a tiny bit LONGER
5) ANYTIME you work the cables to BOOST the draw weight...the holding weight automatically DROPS and the "VALLEY"..FEELS longer
6) ANYTIME you work the cables to BOOST draw weight, which LOWERS holding weight...the DRAW cycle gets, FEELS more AGGRESSIVE
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
Sooo,
the PRIMARY function of the BUSS cable (also called YOKE cable) is to hold the bow together,
to SQUEEZE the limb tips CLOSER together
or
to ALLOW The limb tips to SPREAD farther apart.

PRIMARY function of the YOKE cable is to CONTROL your max draw weight.

BUT
BUT
BUT

I heard that you use the BUSS CABLE To "TIME" your bow.

Well,
they actually mean to control, to change, to fine tune
the cam sync.

SYNC
TIME

same thing.

NOT really.

CAM TIMING
is to change the holding weight...higher or lower.

If you put a round sticker at the 12-o'clock position,
on the TOP metal thingy.

If you put a round sticker at the 6-o'clock position,
on the BOTTOM metal thingy.

SHORTEN the STRING 10-inches (just pretend).

BOTH round stickers will move like the clock minute hand.

TOP round sticker will move from 12-'clock to say 2-o'clock.
BOTTOM round sticker will move from 6-o'clock to say 4-o'clock.

NOBODY in their right MIND, shortens a bowstring 10 full INCHES.

Yup.
It makes it EASIER to see in your mind,
what cam TIMING is.

ANYTIME you TIME your cams,
say you SHORTEN the bowstring 10 FULL INCHES...

BOTH metal thingies are going to MOVE, to ROTATE.

IF you SHORTEN the bowstring HALF a twist
or
if you SHORTEN the bowstring 20 FULL INCHES...

(just pretend)
the EFFECTS are the SAME.

DRAW WEIGHT GOES DOWN,
a tiny bit
or a WHOLE LOT.

That's right.

SHORTEN the bowstring half a twist
shorten the bowstring 1 twist..

the DRAW WEIGHT GOES DOWN
and HOLDING WEIGHT goes UP.

Soooo,
if you do the OTHER direction,
if you GROW the bowstring..
one TWIST
or
say 10 FULL INCHES...

the TWO metal thingies spin the OTHER direction
and the draw weight GOES UP............when a bowstring STRETCHES.

So,
if your bowstring STRETCHES...by itself
the DRAW WEIGHT GOES UP.....(not down)
and the HOLDING WEIGHT GOES DOWN.
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
Soooo,
NOW you know what you can do to a bowstring,
to BOOST arrow speed.

You can make the bowstring LONGER
to BOOST draw weight
and to LOWER holding weight...

you can make a bowstring LONGER
to BOOST the FEEL of your vALLEY.

You can make a bowstring SHORTER
to make the FEEL of your draw cycle SMOOOOTHER
but the valley will FEEL shorter
cuz

CUZ

the holding weight goes UP
and the draw weight goes DOWN

when you SHORTEN a bowstring ON PURPOSE.
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
Soooo,
what about that ROPE thing?

The "control cable".

This is CAM SYNC,
but you will see folks call it TIMING all the time.

hehehehehehehe.

So,
what is CAM SYNC?

Simple.
Wanna make your fletched arrow groups MORE FLAT?

Then,
use the CONTROL cable.
 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
BUT
I hear all the time...

if you have a PSE,
there is a HANDY mark on the cam, where a CABLE is supposed to line up.

Then,
if you have another bow,
there are all KINDS of DOTS to line up, to match up.

Yup.
IF there are marks,
it is a HANDY reference.

BUT
BUT
BUT

what if you cannot see the marks?

What if your bow has no "marks".

COOL.

EVEN Better.

What?
HUH?

RESULTS based tuning.

FORGET the marks.
Don't need them.

If your bow is making draw weight.
70 lb bow is making 70 or 71 lbs...your ATA is probably in the ball park.

if you have a 80% cam bow, LETOFF percentage,
and your HOLDING WEIGHT is about 14 lbs...ish,

then,
your brace height is also JUST FINE.


Sooo,
who do I TIME my bow??

How do I adjust my bow to deliver the FLATTEST possible arrow groups?

SIMPLE.

Bring your portable bow press
and SHOOT THE BOW.

FIRE arrows.





 

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Can somebody post what the consequence of putting twist in and taking out of string and cables does to poundage, draw length, valley, ata, brace, etc on hoyts cam and half system.
So,
what is THIS?

THIS is a shoulder height target at 20 yards.

Bullseye is at YOUR shoulder height.

ONE arrow is a bareshaft,
a tube with a point in the front,
and NO VANES, NO TAPE in the back...
cuz,
we want ZERO airflow disturbance.

NO steering.
NADA
nothing.



Sooo,
sight in your BARESHAFT
to NAIL the bullseye.

I added a strip of tape, horizontal tape
that SPLITs the bullseye.

WE are ONLY doing VERTICAL FLIGHT testing...UP-down control.

So,
sight in the BARESHAFT to HIT the bullseye.

DO whatever you need to do
so the BARESHAFT hits the TOP edge of the masking tape
and the bullseye.

WHEN you can do THAT...

then,
fire a FLETCHED arrow
at the LEFT SIDE of the target.

TWO THINGS CAN HAPPEN.

1) your FLETCHED arrow hits the TOP edge of the masking tape

2) your FLETCHED ARROW MISSES HIGH

3) YOUR FLETCHED arrow misses LOW.

OK.

THREE things can HAPPEN.

IF your FLETCHED arrow hits the TOP edge of the tape,
YOU are DONE.

CONTROL CABLE is JUST perfect.

If your FLETCHED arrow MISSES HIGH or LOW...

WORK THE CONTROL CABLE.



The CONTROL CABLE
is the ROPE, with only two end loops.

ADD a half twist.

THAT's right.

JUST a half twist MIGHT be all you need.

A full twist might be necessary.

OR
you might need the OTHER direction.

REMOVE a half twist.
REMOVE a full twist.

YOU will figure it out REALLY FAST.

Sooo
what do you groups LOOK like,
when you are FINISHED with the ROPE, the CONTROL cable tweaking.

YOU might get groups THIS flat.

at 20 yards.



That's MY group at 20 yards.


One of my STUDENTS at 22 yards.




The CONTROL cable tweaking
ONLY fixes UP-DOWN misses.


The LEFT-RIGHT misses
is a completely separate area.
 

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also, on using a bareshaft does it matter on what shaft , a stiff spine 27 or a properly matched shaft
 

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what about machine tuning or do u need someone on the string??
A DIY hooter shooter,
can get you in the ball park.

I would still do these same steps,
for STARTERS
put the top cam at zero lean, at full draw

for STARTERS
put the arrow rest sideways position, so the arrow is pointed DEAD straight ahead (not crooked left...not crooked right).

Then,
you can SKIP the machine tuning
and go straight to HUMAN testing.

I can design a prototype medical device
and draw it on the computer again and again and again.

I can have the computer do SIMULATED destructive testing again and again.

So,
when the MACHINE (computer) TESTING is done..

do ya think the FDA will allow me to put the experimental medical device in HUMANS, open market?

NOPE.

Gotta do clinical trials
and put the experimental device in VOLUNTEERS, and get REAL HUMAN data.

SAME for a bow.

Are you done, AFTER machine testing?

Nope.

ARE you done, after you get a bullet hole through paper?
NOT even close.

GO shoot the bow,
with arrows
with a HUMAN on the end of the string
and FINISH your tuning by RESULTS based tuning
which means
your FLETCHED arrow GROUPS.
 

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also, on using a bareshaft does it matter on what shaft , a stiff spine 27 or a properly matched shaft
Folks say on the INTERNET

that THIS result



20 yards


and then,
THIS happened NEXT



I was aiming at the bullseye,
ONE fella asked WHY I aimed my bareshaft at the LEFT edge of the paper...(newbie)
I was aiming at the x-ring

and my BARESHAFT misses 8-inches LEFT
and I am right handed...

SOME folks on the INTERNET say this is a SPINE/SPLINE problem.

WElll,
ummmm

NO.

It's not.

IT's a draw length problem.

For a right handed shooter
this is a draw length problem,
about 1/4-inch TOO SHORT.

So,
THIS bow IN SPEC
at 29-inches of draw length,
for ME,
the human shooter,
caused the bareshaft to miss LEFT.




BAREshaft that does THIS...



is what a PAPER tuner would call a RIGHT TEAR.

I don't paper tune.

NOT accurate enough for ME.

MUCH easier to see if a BARESHAFT
misses 8-inches LEFT
or
misses 7-inches LEFT
or
misses 6.75-inches LEFT
or
misses 1-inch LEFT.
 

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also, on using a bareshaft does it matter on what shaft , a stiff spine 27 or a properly matched shaft
Sooo,
you will also see on the Internet

that a RIGHT paper tear

or
a bareshaft that misses 8-inches LEFT for a right handed shooter...target is 20 yards away..


JUST YOKE tune that baby..

that will FIX you right up.

Yup.
IT COVERS up a FUNDAMENTAL problem.

The BOW draw length needs to GROW 1/4-inch LONGER.

You can HIDE that problem
with the yoke cable
and just YOKE TUNE that away.

JUST pull down on the TOP axle, RIGHT YOKE LEG
IF YOU HAVE YOKE LEGS.

But,
that's not GOOD ENOUGH for me...my system...my online archery students.

IF you want the BEST accuracy
with your PROPER spine arrows
with your SUPER STIFF arrows...

IF YOU WANT the BEST groups in YOUR LIFE...

keep reading.
 

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also, on using a bareshaft does it matter on what shaft , a stiff spine 27 or a properly matched shaft
Sooo,
the BASICS.

For STARTERS
get the top cam lean to ZERO
which means

IF you have YOKE legs
get the top axle to LEVEL.



Bow is CROOKED in the draw board.

CROOKED riser on the draw board
has ZERO effect on yoke cable leg length.

NONE.



RISER is now CROOKED LEFT
on the draw board,
and still
this has ZERO effect on the yoke cable leg length.

PERIOD.

Now
draw the bow, YOUR yoke cable bow to full draw.

Two business cards and some scotch tape.







YOKE legs, bow at rest.

DO NOT measure cam lean at REST.

MEASURE at full draw
in a draw board.

PERIOD.



DOES the bottoms of the DIY double business card touch the face of the limbs?
Does the VERTICAL part of the double business card touch the SIDE of the CAM?

IF yes,
your yoke legs are the correct lengths, LEFT and RIGHT yoke leg.

IF the business cards do NOT touch BOTH limbs,
ONE yoke leg is TOO LONG or TOO SHORT.

THIS is for STARTERS
to tune your bow to MAXIMUM accuracy.

IF this is too much work for you,
skip this step.
 

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also, on using a bareshaft does it matter on what shaft , a stiff spine 27 or a properly matched shaft
NEXT basic
for tuning a STIFF spine 27
or
a properly matched shaft.

TUNE the sideways position of the arrow rest
for STARTERS.

DEAD STRAIGHT AHEAD.

NO laser.
NO tape measure.
JUST your eyeballs and common sense.



ARROW loaded.
STIFF 27
or
Properly matched shaft.

DOesn't matter.

IF you have a drop away,
move the arm to the FULL up position.





TAPE a second arrow to the riser,
a nice FLAT section.

SOMEWHERE on your riser,
you should have a FLAT section.

If not,
use your front stabilizer for a reference.

Now,
you will here on AT
that ALL front stabilizer are DRILLED CROOKED.

Well,
I tend to disagree.

IF I spent $2000 on a bow
and the FRONT stabilizer
was drilled crooked,
WOULD you just keep that bow

or WOULD you go get a new one
where the front stabilizer is NOT drilled crooked?







Spend no more than 5 MINUTES
so move the arrow rest sideways
to get the arrow pointed DEAD STRAIGHT AHEAD..

NOT crooked left
NOT crooked right...

for your 27 arrow
for your Properly spined arrow shaft.

WHY?

Cuz,
we are going to move the arrow rest sideways position
ANYWAYS.

Just use my TWO arrow trick
to get to a REASONABLE starting point.
 
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