I don't think our state defines them as a bow. According to their map it's not legal for any hunting.

http://www.crosman.com/airbow

Scroll down for map.

Too bad I already hunt with PCP rifles and have tanks and a pump.

 

I expect they will be legalized in gun season's pretty shortly. PA has just had a bill put on the floor to legalize in rifle season. They will likely make it into archery in some states but will probably have a tough time getting into most states archery season's. I have two problems with the airbow. First its not going to make inclusion any easier in states that currently don't allow crossbows in archery. Second if it takes off there will be many companys making these and it won't be long till we have a 600 fps airbow. In regards to the second point at what point does archery not become archery, if you can shoot 100 yards is it still sporting to be used in archery season. Also back to inclusion the faster crossbows, airbows etc become the harder it is to get them accepted in regular archery season.

 

PA has just had a bill put on the floor to legalize in rifle season. .

To clarify the above. Air rifles are currently illegal in Pa to hunt with by law. The bill in the legislature only makes them a legal weapon for hunting in the state. The Pennsylvania Game Commission would then have regulatory authority of them for hunting. The PGC may or may not allow them for hunting.

 

Air powered arrow launchers are a lot of fun, but will never be considered archery by many States, nor should they be.

After playing with them for more than a few years I understand that the power these things are capable of has a few limits, mostly the amount of air pressure available, and the amount of air you can get the valve to flow without dumping everything in the tank.

The niche that I think these things should be geared toward is wild hog hunting. We only have a few truly wild hogs here in Ohio, but these hogs have practically overrun large areas of Texas, Florida and other states, and if someone geared these air rifles toward hog hunting the sales would skyrocket. I think if set up right, they would have huge advantages over both firearms and archery gear, including the most powerful crossbows.

The advantages are:

1. They are not firearms according to the ATF, and most States, so they could potentially be used in areas where hogs are abundant, but firearms are prohibited.

2. The power level is easily varied in many air rifles with the simple turn of a screw, and with over 3,000 psi on tap, you can use as much or as little as you need.

3. Because they are not a firearm, they can be equipped with sound moderators as long as it is made as part of the frame and this would bring the sound level down below that of a rimfire rifle.

4. With the power available, a good stout broad head could be driven through the largest hog.

The disadvantages of the present crop of air powered arrow launchers are:

1. They use massive amounts of the available air, and as BigbirdVa can tell you, NOBODY looks forward to using a Hill hand pump for 30 minutesto pressurize the tank and only get a few shots.

2. A good portion of that air is wasted inside the hollow barrel and arrow tube bringing it up to pressure before the arrow starts to move forward off the barrel. A better idea would be a dart type of internal projectile with fletching at the rear with a sabot to provide a seal, and a folding broad head at the front that would fit inside the barrel. Everything loaded from the breech just like a standard air rifle.

3. I'm convinced that if you really want an arrow traveling 600-800 FPS, these are more than capable of it. Some guys are producing pressure vessels and valves that use 4,000 to 5,000 psi, not the normal 3,000 psi like the Benjamin. There are several guys that have already launched arrows/darts from large bore air rifles (50-70 cal), and easily achieved 600 FPS. Problem is the fletching and broad heads are not up to the task of those speeds, and something like the FOB may be the way forward.

Not to take away from crossbows, but I think on this one area, air bows or whatever you want to call them could become the hog hunting tool of choice.

 

I have had an air bow for about two weeks,, they are a blast to shoot. Very hard to fill with the hand pump but, easy with a scuba tank. Bow is very accurate but louder than an xbow. Good trigger. The scope is fair at best and the arrows are not the quality of SSA arrows. I still enjoy shooting my Scorpyd xbows.The air bow is just plain fun. You can shoot it all you want, as long as you have an air supply. Like a Scorpyd it takes a quality target to stop the arrows. I have not tried any broadheads as of yet as I know I will need a new broadhead target. If it will shoot broadheads, this will be a great hunting tool. NC has made the air bow legal to hunt all small and big game, except turkeys. Air guns are also legal for all game except tukeys. So far I really have enjoyed shooting this air bow. Hope to shoot a few hogs soon, as there are no restrictions or seasons on hogs. Cant wait to try somw SSA arrows as they shoot great out of my xbows. The air bow will not replace my xbows, but it has a place. With an air supply, anyone can shoot and enjoy this air bow. A dab of grease every 200 shots is all it takes.

 

I think the purpose of this thread is to acknowledge the factory arrows for this thing blowup in a short time. Sounds like the fixer is resolving just another manufacturer guinea pig experiment put out there for folks to deal with. I'm sure you can buy these in many places but, if you want one that shoots something that doesn't break in short order seems it may be available at SSA and, no where else? I'd bet their spine indexed and, more accurate too.

 

Since air rifles, and therefore Airbow type arms have been around for a long time, most of the technology is well know, but not really developed as it should be. By that I mean that there are those in the airgun world that could build a really fine Airbow, but won't because there would be no financial gain in it. If you think about it, Benjamin has taken a bit of a chance manufacturing something that has a very limited legal scope of use.

I don't think the arrows blow up, or are considered expendable, you just have airgun guys building this and they have very little understanding of what makes archery gear work. Same thing here, you have archery guys that for the most part are not familiar with what makes air rifles work. A little bit of both is what would really bring this type of gear up to snuff.

If you think about it, spine matched arrows would make little difference in an Airbow. On a crossbow, spine is important because the arrow is pushed from the rear and its flex during launched has to be kept consistent for it to be accurate. On an Airbow, the arrow is launched by air pressure from the front just behind the insert, so there is really no flex during launch. Straightness and weight matching, as well as fletching are what make Airbow projectiles accurate.

 

I'm sure keeping the insert from leaving the shaft is something to deal with. The Benjamin is an odd looking thing but so are some of the arrow launchers using strings and cables so that should not hold it back. When 600 FPS is mentioned, that's it for a few folks. They would surely have one I see a future for them if nothing else but fun shooting, especially for those already equipped and shooting high powered air rifles.

 

Sorry Moon but I'll spend every spare minute if they want it considered as archery equipment! I have to fight that irresponsible thought, we have bows that cock themselves for those that need it, with less effort than the air bow uses, a simple push of the button and watch it work! Plus it is a bow, uses limbs loaded to propel a string that send the arrow down range, and proven more accurate at the same time. It is a novelty and has not one feature that archery equipment needs to associate it as archery equipment!

It is an airgun period, it just shoots a different projectile, you wanna hunt with it, it belongs in airgun season where they are legal, not archery season!

Let be real here, we change the definition of marriage being a union of a man and women to include lilly ------- and bone ------- lets desecrate the meaning of A R C H E R Y quite yet,,, I would hate to see the kind of wanna bees and me too's this would unleash in the woods during hunting season!

 

we have bows that cock themselves for those that need it, with less effort than the air bow uses, a simple push of the button and watch it work!

That bow is not very friendly for disabled folks. It weighs a ton.

I don't think the Arrow Air Gun is archery, nor do I think it should be allowed during archery season for the general public. But I have no problems with a disabled person using it during archery season.

I aslo have no problems with it being allowed for all during firearms season or alternate methods season. Seems like a cool weapon. I really don't have any interest in having one....but they are cool.

 

To respond to the actual intent of this thread, good for you, Jerry. Making a higher quality arrow for this weapon is a good idea and will help the owners of it.

The rest of it? Traditional archers hated compound bows ("training wheels"), compound shooters hate crossbows, people who use crossbows that use actual limbs, and work like a bow with a mechanism to hold the string at full draw have problems with things like the Talisman, and then you get to this, that doesn't even use a string. They you get guys who champion the challenge of hunting and getting close, criticizing speed over and over, now saying "let's legalize this for hunting." The lines were painted with oil paint, and some bright idea guys looking for $$$ have taken their hands and pretty much wiped out the lines. Don't know how I feel, but my head hurts. Live it up if you can afford one. The real cost is well above the $800 or so for the "bow", just like any other PCP device. Cost is no object for a lot of frequent posters on here, obviously.

 

109, other than that, you don't have any real feelings towards air powered arrow launchers, huh?:laugh:

 

Not at all Tom, I think it would be a great weapon where they have an airgun season, I think it would make a more efficient weapon than the big bore airguns currently being used in these seasons! Make em Bleed, I believe would it would mean quicker kills in that case, I just see no way where it is better for any reason in archery season than the options everyone already has! For those that truly need an easier weapon to use, the Concord is many times easier and more user friendly!

 

I wish there was just deer season. Everyone use what you want.

 

The air bow has no advantage over a top end crossbow. It shoots an arrow, at approx. the same speed and groups about the same as a quality crossbow. It is performs like a crossbow not a gun. I can see no real hunting advantage the air bow has over my Scorpyds, same performance, just does it in a different way. It is a system with no strings or cables, but no advantage in hunting range or killing power. An air supply replaces the cocking of the bow, just as a winch or other device assists in cocking a xbow. Air is already used in the Parker xbow to cock the xbow.

 

Sorry dan but is does not power itself like archery equipment does, that is obvious by its definition by law, and that is not just in my state, there may be one or two, but I doubt it!

This is as logical as thinking a sling shot should be considered legal in archery season, and that may hold some water, as it is far closer to the definition of archery equipment than a gun with no form of string or limbs.

Thankfully there is justice and the majority who will make this decision. but thank God for the fact it is illegal in Ohio to hunt deer!! Finally some justice in this country somewhere!

Now I hope those that enjoy continue to, for what it is,,, an air gun! But be assured I will fight them as archery equipment with much greater energy I have ever fought for archery!! welcome to my world, please respect it, as I will respect yours! I am thru here, as for some comprehension is only about creating exceptions and loopholes!

This is true archery equipment that uses air to cock it's propulsion system a bow, not an air gun! Kudos to Parker for responsibly filling a gap that was needed for those who want to be A R C H E R S~~
http://www.parkerbows.com/crossbows.html?action=detail&detailsku=1109

 

Will you guys stop it?????:set1_rolf2:

 

The Concord I had weighed 14 lbs

 

Yes moon and the pump or the tank that miust be used with the airgun will far outway that, plus good lick cocking it if you cant hold or place the Concord into a rest to shoot it,,,,,apples to apples,,

I love the we'll change to this attack since we are so defeated by logic in the real conversation there Boy's!!:wink:

 

 

I know I'm the new guy here, and obviously I don't know all the personalities involved, but it's sad to see a thread like this get personal.

 

Normally it's a controlled situation until WC needs to spew his Hot Air..other than that it's normal. :zip:

 

Well if the "AirBow" makes tracks, then I may have to put my hat in the ring with my modified .50Cal BMG which uses .50Cal blanks to fire proprietary titanium arrows (with kevlar fletching) at 3,000fps.

You should see the silencer on her....

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/155mm_suppressor-tfb.jpg


TS

 

Why not it will get those in the field and eliminate there not being able to get around at the same time!! Now what is the difference??? where do we draw the line and what do some consider common sense,,, I mean why wouldn't this be legal for the handicapped??? reduce the charge and slow it down and go hunt where Clint does,,,,,,, move over son, coming to a woods where you hunt soon!!!

 

Got to cut WC some slack. Afterall, he's a Wild Catter. In Ohio.

Them woods got to be cramped the way it is, for a Wild Catter.



P.S. fwiw, in case anybody missed it....the BMG thing was a joke.


P.P.S The giant silencer, THAT'S real. lol.

 

I agree 100%!! I am not referring to anyone that is disabled, see I have been for some time, and have a doctor, a neurosurgeon, and a lawyer that confirmed that over 20 years ago, I simply refuse any handouts from the government, any suggestions from my doctor who thinks I am over doing it, I almost died working to do be able to do what I love, so I will do as much and as hard as I want, and ignore any advice from someone who has not been there or thru that!

WC, is this the reason that you feel you have the right to judge anyone else that did go on disability, or feel that they are morally less than you? Because you seem to judge anyone that differs from your slant on the world. Again, we should leave it up to a DOCTOR to say who is and is not disabled.

 

If States want to allow those with true physical disabilities to use special equipment then that's for them to decide.

For most States, a technical definition of most hunting implements is already part of their revised code. Firearms, Air Rifles, Crossbows, etc. already have defined features. As it stands now, the Benjamin uses compressed air and is defined as a phneumatic airgun, and some states allow these to be used to hunt big game during the general firearm season. I have no problem with this because compared to center fire rifles, muzzle loaders and other hunting implements, the Benjamin Airbow has no real advantage. It's when you compare an air rifle like this to a conventional crossbow with its severe range limitations that the differences start to become evident. Crossbows generally have a range limitation of 40-50 yards. Yes, it's possible to shoot big game at greater distances, but most of us know better. The Benjamin Airbow currently has the same velocity, and therefore the same general range limitation, FOR NOW.

Before you decide if this should be included in your States archery deer season, consider this. Big bore airgun shooters have ALREADY built rifles that will fire a 900 grain projectile at over 1000 FPS. I know of several that have experimented with arrows, darts and sabots in these big bore air rifles with success. Not an arrow outside a hollow tube like the Benjamin, but a saboted arrow like projectile inside the barrel. If a 900 grain lead slug from one of these rifles can top 1000 FPS, then a 300 grain arrow can easily be driven 1500fps with the right valve work. For the most part, I'm not talking about things that may happen years into the future, I'm talking about things that guys are doing right now. I honestly believe that with very little work, a big bore air rifle could be made to shoot a short arrow inside its barrel, pushed by a sabot to over 1000 FPS, and cleanly harvest big game at nearly 200 yards. With a little additional work, 1500 FPS is possible.

Think I'm crazy? The rifles are already out there, more than one person is working on it, and believe me, they are some of the biggest people in the airgun world.

Still think you want to include air guns in your archery season?

If you think guys taking 100 yard shots at deer with a crossbow is unsportsmanlike, wait till you have guys taking 200-300 yard shots at deer with air rifles, all during "Archery Season".

 

Jerry, I don't mean to step on your toes with my last post. I wish you the best of luck with the Benjamin Airbow, and any products you build for them.

I think air rifles and air bows are lots of fun. I've thought for years that they should be made legal for big game hunting during the general firearm or possibly muzzle loader season, however, to consider them archery, and include them in the archery season would be a disaster given what is possible with airgun technology.

The guy on the right is Bob, aka Mr. Hollow Point, and that's a 72 cal air pistol. The guy on the left? I haven't a clue.

 

When it comes to the 400-450fps benjamin "AirBow" being included in archery season......I think it's safe to say 99% of the people in this thread are only referring to disabled individuals.....that would require a special permit.

Why anyone who has the ability to walk, would give a crap about a guy in a wheelchair using an air powered arrow gun during archery season is beyond me. But there are a lot of people out there who think they are God's gift to hunting and if you don't do it their way then you're some kind of lazy slob.

 

When it comes to the 400-450fps benjamin "AirBow" being included in archery season......I think it's safe to say 99% of the people in this thread are only referring to disabled individuals.....that would require a special permit.
Why anyone who has the ability to walk, would give a crap about a guy in a wheelchair using an air powered arrow gun during archery season is beyond me. But there are a lot of people out there who think they are God's gift to hunting and if you don't do it their way then you're some kind of lazy slob.

That's exactly point I'm trying to get across..I'm disabled and I don't consider myself lazy or disabled!

 

"to consider them archery, and include them in the archery season would be a disaster"


They said the same thing about crossbows.

 

One tag, one kill! No matter what tackle you're using, IMO. Chose your poison...

 

That's my take on it. Fish and game departments have taken it upon themselves to manage ethics under their assumption that they and the people who pay their salaries have ethics and common people do not. Why not? It's great job security. For politicians as well. Something to pontificate about and something that seems like governance.

I think that's bull. Their job is to do biology. By that I mean their job is to properly manage fish and game populations to provide a sustainable harvest to sports fishermen and hunters and those people who actually depend upon fish and game for sustenance and to protect endangered species and fish and wildlife habitat. We're way overloaded with regulatory minutia.

What difference does it make if a harvestable animal, one harvested in accordance with biological principles and sound management goals, is harvested with as long as the weapon used is capable of making a clean humane kill?

 

If a 900 grain lead slug from one of these rifles can top 1000 FPS, then a 300 grain arrow can easily be driven 1500fps with the right valve work. For the most part, I'm not talking about things that may happen years into the future, I'm talking about things that guys are doing right now. I honestly believe that with very little work, a big bore air rifle could be made to shoot a short arrow inside its barrel, pushed by a sabot to over 1000 FPS, and cleanly harvest big game at nearly 200 yards. With a little additional work, 1500 FPS is possible.

Yep.

Been there, done that. (I used to own a corporation called Ballisticorp, that manufactured dart and arrow guns)

The point at which a rifle's spin stabilized attributes and performance make more sense than following the short arrow route is different for many. That difference still being small enough to relegate arrow shooting interlopers to their own transparently thin, and crummier, slice of the sportsman's pie.

After it's all said and done, I still have considerably more fun snap shooting my recurve than just about any of the shooting contraptions I own.


TS

 

Then you already know everything I'm saying. I have no moral compunctions about shooing game animals with air rifles, or even air rifles firing arrows. What I do think is that if laws are passed to allow phneumatic propulsion of arrows during archery season, 200-300 yard shots at deer won't be far off, and this in an extended season originally implemented due to the range limitations of stick and string archery.

 

The same deviant character, holding a .72 caliber rifle capable of 1600 ft lbs of energy. No, not 160 but SIXTEEN HUNDRED foot pounds of energy.

Still want this in your "Archery Deer Season"?