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Discussion Starter #1
Discovered after reading up on proper draw length that mine is too long. I'm having to reach with my neck to easily find the string with the tip of my nose. I clipped directly on to my string (instead of 1/2" D-Loop) and have concluded that it's about 1/2" too long.

The way I see it I have 3 options. Get rid of the D-Loop and it's benefits, pick up a new release that is capable of being shortened significantly (like a Scott Samurai), or replace my cams to shorten my draw length by 1/2 inch. Of course option three means I lose speed and then have to re-tape my HHA Optimizer.

For clarification, this is a Mathews ZXT hunting bow. I would just toss my D-Loop and install a knock point, but I'm concerned that I'll have no way to tweak my peep as it has a tendency to turn just a touch at times. With the D-Loop I can square the loop to the peep to pull it back squared to my eye.
 

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What I would do is get the correct cams. 5 fps loss is nothing. You may not even notice it on your tape until you get out to around 60 and beyond. Twist your string so the peep is always correct.
 

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^^^ this is correct

Releases or D loop changes do nothing to the bow's DL. They may give you a different anchor point, but the bow has literally not changed therefore your DL has not changed.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
^^^ this is correct

Releases or D loop changes do nothing to the bow's DL. They may give you a different anchor point, but the bow has literally not changed therefore your DL has not changed.
So I guess I should correct the way I stated it above. 27.5" DL is perfect for me, which is what my bow is. Add the D-Loop and my ANCHOR point changes by 1/2", which makes me reach with my neck to get the string on my nose. In order to get my ANCHOR back to a position that has the string on my nose, I need to shorten a component of the total system by 1/2", whether that be the draw length, the DLoop, or the Release.

That said, you still think I should re-cam the bow?

Also, in relation to to twisting my string, I gave it a 1/2 twist recently to straighten up the peep, but it still wanders 10-15 degrees on me, which really annoys me when looking through the peep at a site with a 2" housing. With the 10 degree twist, I can't cleanly see the housing. If I were to add another 1/2 twist to the string I would be significantly over correcting the issue. That make sense? Whats the solution?
 

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I don't quite understand the reasons for wanting the string to touch your nose. If 27.5" is perfect for you then I wouldn't be changing cams. I also would not drop the D Loop - this is for ME since I prefer the d loop to open string with nock point.

If you are shooting well with the bow as is then I wouldn't go looking to change things just to ensure the string touches your nose, there is not a benefit to having the string touch your nose. Example, bow will not shoot faster, flatter, or quieter, nor will it affect accuracy. To put it into an easy to understand perspective, imagine you are shooting a 45" ATA bow, all of the sudden your string angle is very obtuse and may almost definetly touch your nose, but drill down to a 28" ATA bow and all of the sudden your string angle at the same DL is going to be very acute, meaning that you would nearly have to look down to get the string to touch your nose!

In summary, after bow is tuned - Find your DL (you have done this), Find your anchor with proper form that you shoot best with, Finally, SHOOT THE BOW and hit the X.
 

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^^^ this is correct

Releases or D loop changes do nothing to the bow's DL. They may give you a different anchor point, but the bow has literally not changed therefore your DL has not changed.
The problem is that an archer has a specific draw length and the bow should be adjusted to that specific draw length. Adding/subtracting a loop will change the bow's effective draw length and should be readjusted so that it fits the archers draw length. You shouldn't change your anchor to fit the bow but rather adjust the bow to fit the archer. Once an archer develops their full draw position, that should never change. Proper form should have balance between the left and right side of the body and give structural alignment so the archer can shoot consistently.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't quite understand the reasons for wanting the string to touch your nose. If 27.5" is perfect for you then I wouldn't be changing cams. I also would not drop the D Loop - this is for ME since I prefer the d loop to open string with nock point.

If you are shooting well with the bow as is then I wouldn't go looking to change things just to ensure the string touches your nose, there is not a benefit to having the string touch your nose. Example, bow will not shoot faster, flatter, or quieter, nor will it affect accuracy. To put it into an easy to understand perspective, imagine you are shooting a 45" ATA bow, all of the sudden your string angle is very obtuse and may almost definetly touch your nose, but drill down to a 28" ATA bow and all of the sudden your string angle at the same DL is going to be very acute, meaning that you would nearly have to look down to get the string to touch your nose!

In summary, after bow is tuned - Find your DL (you have done this), Find your anchor with proper form that you shoot best with, Finally, SHOOT THE BOW and hit the X.
My nose does touch the string now, which is one of the ways I gauge a consistent anchor. The problem is I'm manipulating my neck in order to to achieve the string touching my nose. I'm doing that because my D-Loop adds 1/2" of travel necessary to pull the string back to my nose. Without the D-Loop, the string touches my nose. I want to draw the bow to my anchor point and have minimal neck movement in order to have the string sitting on my nose. The reason for wanting to achieve this is to minimize the amount of muscle strain I'm putting in to aiming/shooting.

The way I understand it is when I draw my bow to my anchor point I should be sitting in a perfect resting position looking through the peep with all points of contact in my anchor being achieved (nose, kisser button, thumb under jaw bone, etc, etc).
 

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The nose on the string "touch point" causes more form problems than nearly anything else. Having to move your head to achieve that is counterproductive. I'd suggest learning what your full draw position is THEN finding the "touch points" that tell you that you are there. Your "touch points" should be a RESULT of your draw/ draw length, NOT a target OF the draw.

Arne
 

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Mathew's is famous for running .5 inch long on draw length. Your probably pulling 28 inch's with 27.5 inch cam's. Put it on a draw board and measure the actual DL. Just because the cam is rated at the stated DL don't mean that's what it"s actually pulling when measured on a drawboard. It's not a bash just fact's.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The nose on the string "touch point" causes more form problems than nearly anything else. Having to move your head to achieve that is counterproductive. I'd suggest learning what your full draw position is THEN finding the "touch points" that tell you that you are there. Your "touch points" should be a RESULT of your draw/ draw length, NOT a target OF the draw.

Arne
I like having 3 points; jaw, peep, and nose. I can't say in every instance this would produce the most reliable results for every archer, but for me, it has. The issue is that I often have to reach and 'find' my way to this position because my bow doesn't naturally pull back in to this position. I could take your advice and completely re-learn my anchor or I could just shave 1/2" from my DLoop or Release (or draw length). I'm asking for opinions on the lesser of those evils.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Mathew's is famous for running .5 inch long on draw length. Your probably pulling 28 inch's with 27.5 inch cam's. Put it on a draw board and measure the actual DL. Just because the cam is rated at the stated DL don't mean that's what it"s actually pulling when measured on a drawboard. It's not a bash just fact's.
You could be right, but still leaves me in the same position. Take 1/2" off my DL, get rid of the DLoop, or replace my release? What would you do to get yourself in perfect shooting position.
 

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Get the right cam's and with a 28 inch ATA bow your nose will not touch the string due to string angle unless you dip your head down to touch the string to nose or DL is waaaay to long.
 
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