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Now that the hunting seasons are kicking in, we have (and had) many threads asking about the best flying bh, etc. I just replied to a thread where the Slick Trick was the best flying out of his bow. Well......I am not an expert but I shoot many various BH's from my bows and I can get them to fly all the same and get them to impact the same as field tips (without magic). Just last week I took 6 different bh's, same weight, all straight in good condition (not new) and screwed them on matching shafts, spun them, and all hit in the same exact hole (1st one blew thru and made a hole) on my 3-D backyard buck at 25 yards, as 1 example. I have done this many times with various bh/arrow combinations!
I dont believe this happens by accident. I pay alot of attention to detail! I spend alot of time with my bows working with them to get them tuned to be able to put any quality bh on of the same weight, shoot it and have it fly like the proverbial ft's and impact with the others. It makes me wonder why some guys can only shoot 1 bh out of their bow. Is it that they dont have access to more bh's to test? Do they not have the effort,time and equipment to put into tuning their bows? I realize many people are in the process of learning and alot is new to them. But if you can get 1 type of bh to fly "wonderful" why not others? I, like many others here, work to achieve perfection with my equipment.
I made this thread to not flame anyone on this issue but to hopefully, open up GOOD dialogue without punching each other out and getting more insight to this issue as I feel most bowhunters can get their bows "more and better" tuned.
Again I hope this leads to an educational thread and not a bashing thread! I encourage all to participate, new folks as well as veterans. :wink:
 

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I agree with you Jerry. I am planning to hunt with at least 6 different heads this season. they all fly RIGHT with my FP's. If you flight tune with FP's good BH's will group with your FP's. Some heads won't due to flaws in their designs. Some will be more forgiving to torque, but all good heads should fly with each other. Any of the passing heads at www.btreviews.com will group together.
 

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Jerry,

I have the same thing happen to me. I have shot various brands of fixed blade broadheads out to 60 yards. 99% of the time they fly great and group right with one another. The other 1% of the time, I wright that head off...there's too many outstanding heads to beat myself up about a poor flying one.

I'm of the opinion that good flying fixed blades comes from "super tuning" your bow. Once everything is perfect, those broadheads don't have a choice, but to fly good!

Ray
 

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Amen Jerry. Although I don't go thru a multitude of different heads (I pick one and stick with it) I do believe that a person should be able to slap on almost any good head and have them all fly the same. And I am far from a tuning wizard, so I think any average Joe can do it with a little time and patience.
 

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for me it's not a lack of wanting the ability to slap any head on my arrows and go...it's more of a lack of knowledge of how to tune my bow to achieve that kind of success. i would love to be able to tune my bow myself and KNOW that it's right. i'm getting there slowly but surely and learning as i go (in large part, thanks to AT...:) ), but i have a LONG way to go. i believe that there is a big difference in somebody else tuning your bow and you tuning your bow.

i'm still new to archery (2nd season) and currently trying out different heads to find out which ones that a) fly the best for my shooting style and my setup and b) preform well and get the job done. i've tried about 6 or so and have found a couple that i like, but i have three new ones this year to try out.

i've read about some stuff...like walkback tuning and some other ways to get you bow in line, are there any other tips that yall might have to tweak it even more (ie...things to check, things to look for...etc)...? i'm always looking to learn more.
 

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Jerry...excellent points and these types of threades have overtaken the bowhunting section and do so every year. I am a "tuner" and I am 100% sure I can take any quality head (not a beat-up/banged up Wal-mart special) and shoot it out of my hunting rig and put it on top a field point. I really believe the tuning process after the bow is set to spec and paper tuned can be done within an hour. Sight-in, walk-back tune and then broadhead tune and sight-in again....you are ready. It only requires a target capable of handling broadheads and a few allen wrenches at this point. I will say that some heads are better are letting you know your bow is not perfectly tuned and are less forgiving in that respect. It all boils down to this: You spend lots of money and countless hours practicing to be able to hunt with a bow. You buy licenses and clothing and stands and cough up travel money...WHY in the world would you skip one of the most important steps??

For those that don't know how to "tune" your bow for broadheads, there is a wealth of information right on ArcheryTalk to get your through this. You will be amazed at how well ANY head shoots once you are properly tuned and dialed in...and then it comes down to which head is going to work best for the game and manner in which I hunt and not just "How does if Fly".
Good luck to everybody:darkbeer:
 

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A common theme I'm starting to see (in other forums also) is someone having trouble getting their bh's to fly consistently and someone will chime in with....dump those heads and go to mech's. and your problem is solved. Sticking with the theme of not flaming, folks need to understand that mech's. are not the cure all of everything. Just yesterday I was helping out a guy who was having trouble with his bh's shooting well. This is an area I feel like I do know a little. Been shooting cut on contact heads and feathers for 13 years w/ aluminum and carbon.

I do know for a fact that a bow that I used to shoot it would consistently shoot my bh's 1 to 1.5 inches to the left no matter what. I would move my sights to the left a tick and harvest deer. The bow I shoot today will group carbon arrows w/ feathers (475 grains) with Magnus Buzzcuts at 45 yds. w/ no problem with a brace height of 6 5/8".

I just hate to see a bowhunter who wants to shoot a deadly fixed blade and give up and go to mech's. thinking he has solved his problem. If a hunter has the correct spine arrow, a PERFECTLY TUNED ARROW, he can get those deadly heads to shoot just like FP's, just takes a little work and common sense.
 

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The majority of threads I read concerning bh tuning seem to have a common theme...arrows with incorrect spine. When I was younger I was the same as alot of these folks on here, I wanted to set my bow up to be a speed demon. I would then struggle to tune broadheads and would write it off as just poor head design.
A perfectly tuned bow can sometimes get away with weak spined arrows, but you have to have a properly tuned bow and properly spined arrows to get broadheads to fly true. It is real difficult to get broadheads to fly correctly if you get down to IBO weights.
I am able to switch between fp, fixed and mechanical heads without any flight problems. I am archery guru, but I can get 'em to fly good. :darkbeer:
 

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I agree with what you are saying also Jerry. I have shot tons of different broadheads through the years and I don't remember ever having one I could not get to fly, but I too am anal about my bow tune. I always get a laugh when someone says they can't get a muzzy to fly or they can't get a Thunderhead to fly etc., etc. If its not bent and it spins true it will fly. Granted some will fly much better out of a slightly out of tune bow than others.

How many out of tune bows do you think are being packed around by the average bowhunter?

A couple I would imagine:rolleyes:
 

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The thing that gets me is everybody going to mechanicals. I have nothing against them, but they should be shot out of a tuned bow to get the best performance, not be substituted for tune.

Another thing to keep in mind is speed. Many "tried and true" heads that performed perfectly out of your old bow won't from a new one. I know my father can get almost any head to fly at 224fps that he's shooting. Even BH's with poor design. My buddy shoots 330fps, some of those same heads won't shoot out of his set-up.

So, no not all heads will hit with FP's but MANY will.
 

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I agree with most of this stuff but mechanicals are not always a cop out. Many times they are but IF used right they do offer "some" advantages. I tune my bow for fixed heads no matter what I plan on shooting. If I can shoot a large fixed head with my field tips then I can just about shoot any head on the market with the same POI. Some years I'll shoot fixed and some years I'll feel like testing a new head. This year I am trying the Rage 3 blades because it looks like it has an interesting design too me. Mechanicals get a bad rap because they are misused and used by many novices because they are "easier" to begin with. I have heard archers asking why their 125 gr BH don't fly like their 125 gr field tips since I started bow hunting 30 years ago. I'm sure the older guys have heard it since they started and it's never gonna' stop unfortunately because there will always be newcomers. But, that’s a good thing because it grows the sport. It’s our job to help em' out and get em' on the right track. It does get repetitious but we were all there at one point...right? Anyway, I have my setup shooting great and I could shoot anything I want but I'm shooting the Rage, why? Because here in SC the deer are smaller than Northern deer and I'm not hunting Elk or Moose so I will get plenty of penetration for what I hunt. The other advantage is mechanicals are more forgiving to shoot because they don't steer as much on bad releases. My point is if you know your equipment and your quarry you can use what "you" need to use and do well. If you don't know what you need or you don't have the experience to match things up we can help...But you gotta' ask.
 

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Thinking about this subject a little more...I have had a much easier time getting broadheads flying when using larger helical fletch. That may be 4" or 5" feathers or vanes, either with a 3 or 4 fletch. I'm now using the TurboNock Hunters with great results with Stingers and Sonics.

I also agree with Deadquiet, tune with a larger fixed blade, and anything else will generally fly right...a smaller fixed, mechanical, or a field point.

Ray
 

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Great thread Jerry. I was going to post something similar today. It just seems to me that guys always look for the easy way out. That is why guys go wo mechanicals. But since mechanicals do still catch alot of flack.....we now have all of these fixed blades with the cutting diameter of a pencil. Yes some of those heads are quality heads but ask yourself what would you rather get shot with? A head with 7/8"-1" cutting diameter or a head in the 1 1/4-1 1/2" diameter. Now that doesn't really seem like alot of difference but you will quickly realize that it is when you look at them side by side. When was the last time you heard of someone bragging about there blood trail from one of those little heads?

Now part of this problem I blame on these hunting writers. Why because that is who most people listen to because they think these guys know what they are talking about. Some of them do but most of them don't. I laugh so hard when most writers talk about tunning, or setting up a bow or broadhead flight. Heck a recent article I read by Bill Winke he said not to use a loop, it takes to much time to connect your release. :confused: But back to the topic at hand......

My favorite is that you can't shoot a fixed blade broadhead at over 265fps or so. Hog Wash. Now Friday Nino and I went to the range. We had spitfires(1 1/2"), stricknines(2"), shockwaves (1 1/4"), the midget of the group the free sonic (7/8") and the one you can't shoot over 265fps....the SIMMONS LANDSHARK. All heads were 100 grains. Both bows were shooting over 280 fps, my Ultra Tec 28" 67 lbs 390 grain ACC 280-285 fps.....Nino's Switchback 29" 70lbs GT in the 370 range 291fps.....

All arrows were shot at 30 yds....of course the sonic hit in the dot they are a field point in comparison to all the other heads. The spitfires hit in the dot, as did the stricknines and the shockwave.....Now for the real test the Land Shark. Man I though I was gonna cut my hand off drawing that axe back. Well I let er eat.....DOT. Nino....DOT. over and over again. Even when I shot with Ninos arrows DOT.

So folks it aint the arrow (although you must use enough fletching thats why I switched to Ninos arrows and refletched mine when I got home), it aint the head....it is the bow but no the model or the brand.....it is the tune. If you don't know how to tune a bow well take the time to learn, it ain't that hard. Besides if you learn to tune your bow you will be surprised how much better your shooting will be.

OK I am off the box now.
 

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I agree that it all begins with a well tuned bow. With a well tuned bow I've been able to shoot a variety of heads, and have them all impact the the same as my FPs.
On the other hand, I also think some BH designs are more forgiving by nature, and may not be as "touchy" as others. Although you really can't compare arrow flight with bullet ballistics, those that are familiar with guns, know that certain guns perform better with certain ammo. You have to try many varieties to determine what groups better. I wonder if this can also apply to archery; in particular several BH and arrow combinations?
 

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I can shoot very good groups with fixed broadheads, but they do not hit exactly where my field points hit. I could use an arrow with a diffeent spine and maby get them to hit together.
I would be very helpful to see what arrow weight, length and broadhead weight plus poundage is used.

Most of the posts I have seen so far talk about the good results, but they don't tell the whole set up.
 

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I know alot of people diss paper tuning. But all the years I have been paper tuning, If I get an arrow to shoot clean thru paper from 5yds out to 20yds, it has always shot broadheads with field points.

2 years ago I was shooting a BlackKnight, MZE and GT7595 with Blazers @ 298fps. It would put Muzzy 3 Blade 100's rite in there with field points.

One of the things I do that really helps is square of the inserts with a G5 tool and spin my broadheads. If they don't spin you can pretty much figure they won't group either.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
olehemlock said:
I know alot of people diss paper tuning. But all the years I have been paper tuning, If I get an arrow to shoot clean thru paper from 5yds out to 20yds, it has always shot broadheads with field points.

2 years ago I was shooting a BlackKnight, MZE and GT7595 with Blazers @ 298fps. It would put Muzzy 3 Blade 100's rite in there with field points.

One of the things I do that really helps is square of the inserts with a G5 tool and spin my broadheads. If they don't spin you can pretty much figure they won't group either.
You noticed that also huh? :wink: I shoot bareshaft holes and then move to fletched arrows and most times, I rarely need any further adjustment with my bh's and ft's.
And spinning arrows is a law not a choice :wink: :)
 

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OK guys, I'm eating this stuff up because I believe the same thing, if the bow is tuned properly it will shoot BHs to the same POI as FPs. Here's where I need your input. I'm shooting a new bow this year that I thought was pretty well tuned. That is until I tried shooting my broadheads. They consistently hit 3" low at 20 yds and 4-5" low at 30. I went back to a bare shaft and it's slightly nock high at 10 feet. Extremely nock high at 20 yd, yet its grouping right with the fletched arrows. I've tried moving my nocking point down, I'm currently down to a dead even 90 deg. with the string with no change in BH POI or bare shaft nock orientation. My arrows are hitting higher, the fletched FPs are 3" high at 20 yds and the BHs are right on now. Can this be a timing issue with the Cam & halfs? Or could it be a case of being over or under spined?
Here's my set up:
Reflex Highlander 50-60lb, limb bolts down tight.
26 1/4" draw
Beman ISCH 400s cut to 26 1/4"
100 gr tips / 100 gr Muzzy 4 blade
whisker bisuit rest
Tru Ball Short&Sweet release

Any input would be appreciated, it's six days to the opener and I'm getting a little frustrated. BTW, I'm not trying to highjack this thread, it's just that I keep hearing too many comments like you guys have mentioned, "change your broadhead" or "move your sight pins". I feel these are just shortcuts or quick fixes that will only mask an improperly tuned bow.
 

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sounds like your d loop is pinching the noc, noc pinch can really raise havoc. Try putting a gap of 1/32 to 1/16 on an inch in your d loop. It will not hurt one little bit. Open the d-loop up to get the gap and then set it with a pair of needle nose pliers. Make sure your nocs are not to tight on the string. You also mite want to try a 125gr head.
 

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bobk said:
I can shoot very good groups with fixed broadheads, but they do not hit exactly where my field points hit. I could use an arrow with a diffeent spine and maby get them to hit together.
I would be very helpful to see what arrow weight, length and broadhead weight plus poundage is used.

Most of the posts I have seen so far talk about the good results, but they don't tell the whole set up.

You don't really need all of the specs. In my post I gave you everything but actuall spines and lengths....why because they will be different for each person. The 2 bows we shot had a different drawlength and poundage, different arrows and lengths and different spines the GT were a 400 and the ACCs were a 440. You have to tune your arrow for your setup.
 
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