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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if anyone could tell me why there's such a difference in philosophy between recurve and compound grips. Personally, I use a Jager BEST style grip for my recurve, and that's all I've ever used. I understand the concepts behind it, but I'm curious as to why compounders (and actually some recurve shooters that I've seen as well) choose the low, slim grip.
 

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Genesis 21:20
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It's the difference between pushing (recurve) and lifting (compound). Also, a compound is far more sensitive to torque because of the low holding weight.

John.
 

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Still waiting for John's answer....:asleep:

What kind of grip are you now using on your barebow setup John?

Thanks,

Don
 

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S/A, Don -

If I can interject - With a stickbow, most of the force an archer has to deal with is due to the draw weight (pushing the bow towards the target), with a compound, not so much due to the drastically reduced draw weight, rel to the physical weight of (lifting) the bow.

Regarding the BEST grip, as much as I've tried to use it, it's too painful (literally) and have gone to more of a low grip, akin to what the compound guys are doing (hand position, not bow grip design). I just find it more comfy and stable over extended shooting sessions, but yes, I do have to be careful about torqueing.

Viper1 out.
 

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"If I can interject - With a stickbow, most of the force an archer has to deal with is due to the draw weight (pushing the bow towards the target), with a compound, not so much due to the drastically reduced draw weight, rel to the physical weight of (lifting) the bow."

Ah, gotcha-that makes perfect sense now.

BTW, just picked up your second edition-wonderful book Viper. :77:

Thanks,

Don
 

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USAA Regional-L4 Coach
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Regarding the BEST grip, as much as I've tried to use it, it's too painful (literally) and have gone to more of a low grip, akin to what the compound guys are doing (hand position, not bow grip design). I just find it more comfy and stable over extended shooting sessions, but yes, I do have to be careful about torqueing.
I'm teaching and Coaching BEST method and I find the Jager standard and medium wrist grip very uncomfortable and almost painful too.

I have been using a BEST, Low grip on one bow and a medium grip modified to be very low wrist as well. Much more comfortable in the hand and conducive to shooting BEST method with out the pain. If you dig into the newer "total archer" book Coach Lee advocates a lower grip. I have to look at the old book to see what it says. I don't have in my notes from the course that really talks a great deal about high med or low grip. I don't recall it coming up in conversation during our training sessions.

DC
 

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dchan,

Any chance that you could post some pics of how you've modified your grips, as a picture is worth a thousand words-in my case anyway. :smile:

Thanks,

Don
 

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Genesis 21:20
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After working with Paul Jaeger to create the original "BEST" style grips, I set out to create a lower version that maintained the same biomechanical advantages. As a result of shooting traditional hunting bows (mostly longbows) for 25 years, I just prefer a lower grip. After a great deal of trial and error, I finally arrived at what I consider my ultimate grip. It is substantially lower than the original Jaeger "BEST" style grip, but I feel it is an excellent combination of comfort and performance - for me.

Incidentally, the original grip I gave Paul to create the "BEST" style grips was designed exactly to coach Lee's specifications, under his supervision. So at least at one time - that grip was "THE" suggested standard for shooting the "BEST" method.

Now, as we all know, that method is either dead, or has gone through a lot of changes since '06 - I can never keep up. Either way, it sounds like coach Lee is advocating a slightly lower grip now, and that is evident by the grips on Brady and Jake's bows. But the fact still remains that for many archers, the original "BEST" style grips are far better than any factory grip for a number of reasons.

John.
 

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After working with Paul Jaeger to create the original "BEST" style grips, I set out to create a lower version that maintained the same biomechanical advantages.
I think I have a grip that might be a result of this work. I like the one I got from Paul with one objection, It's a little small and narrow but it's very comfortable and feels like it has the biomechanical advantages as mentioned.
Incidentally, the original grip I gave Paul to create the "BEST" style grips was designed exactly to coach Lee's specifications, under his supervision. So at least at one time - that grip was "THE" suggested standard for shooting the "BEST" method.

Now, as we all know, that method is either dead, or has gone through a lot of changes since '06 - I can never keep up. Either way, it sounds like coach Lee is advocating a slightly lower grip now, and that is evident by the grips on Brady and Jake's bows. But the fact still remains that for many archers, the original "BEST" style grips are far better than any factory grip for a number of reasons.

John.
I wouldn't say dead but has gone through some changes. The first time I heard about Coach Lee's methods it seemed everyone was saying how rigid his coaching style was. When I finally met him the first time, I found him to be less rigid than I expected. The next time I spent a whole week with him and found that while he is adamant about a lot things in the shooting process, I found that he is also a lot more understanding about how we as people are all different. He is still a perfectionist and strives to get the coaches all on the same page but he seemed to be much more understanding about how it's not all absolute.

As far as what's the best grip for you, I have to agree with John, It's most likely not the factory one.

DC
 

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dchan,

Any chance that you could post some pics of how you've modified your grips, as a picture is worth a thousand words-in my case anyway. :smile:

Thanks,

Don
Basically I took a standard Jager BEST grip and reshaped the high wrist into a much lower one. I maintained the angle (about 10 degrees) from left to right.

It's tough work if you don't have the tools. Cutting and sanding the heavy rubber on those grips is pretty hard. A band saw does pretty good at the rough shaping and a belt sander or grit grinder work if you have course grits to shape. Then moving to finer and finer grits to clean it up.

I'll see if I can get a few pictures for you.

DC
 

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Genesis 21:20
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I think I have a grip that might be a result of this work.
As far as I know, the lower versions of Paul's grips are his design. I only finished my lower grip design just over a year ago and I'm not aware that it's been duplicated since. But then, I've sorta removed myself from "the loop" for personal reasons since then too...

John.
 

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As far as I know, the lower versions of Paul's grips are his design. I only finished my lower grip design just over a year ago and I'm not aware that it's been duplicated since. But then, I've sorta removed myself from "the loop" for personal reasons since then too...

John.
Ah.

I misread your original post as you working with Paul to design a lower wrist version.

Thanks for the clarification.
 

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Jager Archery
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I do have lower wrist designs for most of the popular bows. My basic designs are lower now for instance, my standard BEST Style grip for the TF Apecs and CXT are lower than the standard Inno grip. I will be coming out with a lower version of the INNO in a couple of weeks. I already have them available for Samick Masters, Hoyt Helix/Nexus, GMX/Formula, Hoyt Matrix/Aerotec style, PSE x-factor/x-appeal, Win Win Xpert/Exfeel, Winstar II and Mathews Sky Conquest. I may have forgotten some, but just call me or email me and ask. The website is severely dated but I hope to remedy that in the next couple months.
 

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Here are some pictures from my various Helix grips.

The lowest is the factory one. The black one with the high wrist is a Jager BEST version, and the orange one is a Jager BEST version with a lower wirst design.

Currently I´m shooting the orange one.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
While at USIAC I noticed that athletes from the OTC had grips made by (I believe) Guy Krueger. I tried one out and it felt pretty good - does anybody have pictures of these?
 

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Mantra that is one orange grip!...what color is the bow your shooting it on? Not that it matters for performance but...you know red ones are faster and all ;-)
 

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Removing Jaeger grip ?

Not trying to hijack the thread but I want to remove the Jaeger grip from my Nilo - anyone have the "best" way ? I am thinking a hair dryer to heat up the glue under the grip....

Thanks, Steve
 
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