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Broad Head Tuning - Simplified Tuning 101 - for Modern Compound bows

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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
You can shim them but when you are drawing some of the older binary cams (both cables on one side) at 31" they still lean bad. They don't follow the charts.
I’m not buying that either. I’m shooting an Energy 35 and a Victory 37. Both binary, both with cables on the same side, and I have a 30.5 draw length. I’m following the Gold Tip charts, and they work perfect for me.
 

· Lou & Jode
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I’m not buying that either. I’m shooting and Energy 35 and a Victory 37. Both binary, both with cables on the same side, and I have a 30.5 draw length. I’m following the Gold Tip charts, and they work perfect for me.
Did they have bad cam lean? I had two Victory 39s and an Enlist that didn't play by the rules so I guess results may vary. I know Bowtech and Elite addressed that problem with their newer binary cam bows by attaching the cables on both sides of the cams.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Did they have bad cam lean? I had two Victory 39s and an Enlist that didn't play by the rules so I guess results may vary. I know Bowtech and Elite addressed that problem with their newer binary cam bows by attaching the cables on both sides of the cams.
They are binary, so yes, they have lean, but they are not bad IMO. I had an Obsession Addiction that was bad with lean, looked like it should derail when you shot it, but it still broad head tuned the same way.
 

· Lou & Jode
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They are binary, so yes, they have lean, but they are not bad IMO. I had an Obsession Addiction that was bad with lean, looked like it should derail when you shot it, but it still broad head tuned the same way.
I never hunted with the 39s only bare shaft tuned them for 3D, the Enlist leaned bad at 30" but l could get a Grim Reaper practice head to land with a field point but not by using that ^^ chart, by trimming the arrows and experimenting with tip weights, tuning the arrow to the bow. Shot mechs good and I killed everything I shot at but I since gave in and bought a bow that I can yolk tune so now I tune the bow to the arrow. If the cams are straight at brace and leaned at full draw there's no way the arrow can be pushed inline with the string, you are always going to have some lateral nock travel with those designs.
 

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I think sometimes too, people are reluctant to adjust cam timing because either the cables are in the recommended timing marks on the cam, or they haven’t put it on a draw board and been fanatical about getting both cables to hit the stops at the same time.

Don’t overlook speeding up or slowing down a cam to move the nock low/high issues.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I think sometimes too, people are reluctant to adjust cam timing because either the cables are in the recommended timing marks on the cam, or they haven’t put it on a draw board and been fanatical about getting both cables to hit the stops at the same time.

Don’t overlook speeding up or slowing down a cam to move the nock low/high issues.


Semper Fi,
Mike
Too other extent, a lot of people don’t have the equipment to make all of those adjustments, or the new timing adjustable bows. They take it to a shop, get it timed (hopefully), and initially setup (to hopefully close). We all know the roll of the dice on that. The rest adjustments and cable guard adjustments may be all they can do. They can get a good amount of tuning out of the rest itself, if it maintains spec for the bow.
 

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Too other extent, a lot of people don’t have the equipment to make all of those adjustments, or the new timing adjustable bows. They take it to a shop, get it timed (hopefully), and initially setup (to hopefully close). We all know the roll of the dice on that. The rest adjustments and cable guard adjustments may be all they can do. They can get a good amount of tuning out of the rest itself, if it maintains spec for the bow.
You’re right- not all have the tools needed. Probably the only truly innovative things with the new Mathews bows this year is the Stay Afield System. While I haven’t used mine yet (since I have a press), I think it’s biggest benefit is to allow the average person the ability to work on their bow without a press. I hope to see more manufactures provide this capability just for that reason.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
You’re right- not all have the tools needed. Probably the only truly innovative things with the new Mathews bows this year is the Stay Afield System. While I haven’t used mine yet (since I have a press), I think it’s biggest benefit is to allow the average person the ability to work on their bow without a press. I hope to see more manufactures provide this capability just for that reason.


Semper Fi,
Mike
IDK if I’d call that true “innovation” since you can get the same thing, if not more, out of a portable press like a Bowmaster or so on, at a fraction of the price that Mathews tags on for it. Other manufactures have given more innovation in the tuning of bows over the past few years well beyond that (APA, Bowtech, Elite). However, most of these don’t allow for the horizontal adjustments, just the lateral. APA will allow for horizontal with their pin system. We could get into the whole argument about the screwdriver in the cam for tuning, but cams nowadays wont handle it.
 

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IDK if I’d call that true “innovation” since you can get the same thing, if not more, out of a portable press like a Bowmaster or so on, at a fraction of the price that Mathews tags on for it. Other manufactures have given more innovation in the tuning of bows over the past few years well beyond that (APA, Bowtech, Elite). However, most of these don’t allow for the horizontal adjustments, just the lateral. APA will allow for horizontal with their pin system. We could get into the whole argument about the screwdriver in the cam for tuning, but cams nowadays wont handle it.
I don’t completely disagree, but the SAS is probably the most innovation to come from them for some time. While this isn’t the place to get in to this discussion, I think innovation has been absent from Mathews for quite some time, and has been replaced with gimmick and marketing, yet I still buy a few of them every year. I guess it’s that “comfortable old shoe” syndrome.

APA, with the right marketing, could be a dominant brand.

But I’m also growing tired of all of the gimmicks sold as “tech” on bows these days. I could buy two brand new Bear Adapt bows for the price of one of my V3X’s and have no lesser of an experience. I’m sensing others are beginning to see this too. Perhaps we’ll begin to see some more budget-minded offerings and less focus on flagship. I dunno … Margins are probably higher on a flagship bow though. Just guessing, a 2:1 ratio.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 

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Anything that’s helps someone tune their equipment is a good thing. I tune bows all the time and have to think “which way do I move this”. Probably because I am old.
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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Good stuff.
I always start by checking timing marks and exact axle to axle measurements as first steps.

Note- if you skip steps, it can result in frustration

Edit: Ive been shooting a recurve for many years but this is my tuning process;

1. Set the bow to factory specs; cam timing, axle to axle, rest
Cams- most have timing marks now. If not, check on a draw board at full draw then scribe the cam
Axle- factory distance is a perfect cable and string setup
Rest- its usually 13/16” in the new compounds but its designed to shoot at factory distance. Dropaway rests need to be timed to come up late

2. Make sure your arrows arent underspined. A over spine arrow tunes well in a modern compound. spin check arrows for perfect straightness and nok tightness.

3. set string loop with a spacer ( wraps of floss or thread) so the loop isnt tight on the nok

At this point you have multiple options for arrow tune; shooting a bareshaft with FPs, shoot paper, or just shoot BHs and FPs. Follow the charts in the OP.

Worth noting;
Paper tune with FPs is only 1/2 tuned

If your BHs dont hit with FPs, the BH arrow is telling you your arrows are coming out of the bow cockeyed. When the BH arrow hits with FPs, thats when your arrows are truly coming out of the bow perfectly straight.

When BHs aren’t perfect:
1. If the above steps are done and BHs still don’t hit with FPs its worth experimenting with your form and grip before you start moving stuff. Sometimes its just a minor grip change. Check form alignment.

2. check for fletch contact with powder.

3. Bow Adjustments; It usually takes tiny movements to get it right. That can either be accomplished by adjusting yokes, shimming cams, twisting the Yokes or tiny 1/32” rest moves. If you move your rest more than about 3/16” from factory recommended setting, something else is wrong…it doesnt take that much.

Rest adjustments are tricky. when I BH tune; shoot BHs and FPs for groups- I typically chase the FP group ( move rest toward the FP group) in 1/32” incriments. This usually works…but if not….(and you have checked all of the other factors above) I have had it where a paper tuned for FP was past the perfect setting- over adjusted- and to keep chasing FPs with my rest made it worse, I went back a tad and it tuned perfect.

Point is; its never much past factory recommended setting for your rest.


I probably forgot something…but thats essentially my process. If you skip a step….or have a form flaw especially alignment…or are shooting arrows that don’t spin perfect….you will not get that bow to tune.

I hope that helps….Best wishes to my bowhunting brothers….

It sounds like a lot ^ but its one of those things thats worth getting your arms around, understanding the factors in perfect arrow flight. Your bow will be quieter, faster, smoother…and more forgiving of a form error in the woods.
.
 

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Some good information in this thread - thank you for sharing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

· Corripe Cervisiam
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Tuning is a worthy exercise. Anyone who has done it will tell you the same….its a revelation.

I know many bowhunters that thought they were shooting well( untuned) and after the tuning process they were surprised at how pinpoint accurate they actually were- the untuned bow was holding them back.

To add;
We get a lot of guys posting on AT that are starting in the middle of the tuning process, skipping steps.

That might work…but if your cams are off…or your ATA ( axle to axle) …or you have fletch contact….or form issues….you can move your rest all you want and never get it to tune.

Form;
Form plays a big part, for example; I can be perfectly tuned…then vary my grip and shoot a bareshaft and it flys terrible. Its worth trying different grip positions before moving a bunch of stuff around- heck, you bow might be tuned and you don’t know it.

The problems I’ve seen most for bows that won’t tune:

1) under spined arrows- guys following these 3 decades old charts. If you are in the supposed sweet spot on a chart…you still might be underspined in a hunt arrow with a longer than field point tip Broadhead. A BH affects spine more than a FP.
Go one size stiffer…it works.

2) Guys moving their rest too much. From your Bows designated center shot, if you go more than a 1/16” and its not tuning….….you probably went too far or there is something else going on with your form or cams. Move your rest in 1/32” increments.

3) Guys paper testing FPs and think they are done. Nope, thats the 1/2 way point If you are going to shoot BHs.

Lastly, tuning is about the most frustrating thing on the planet when you are new to it- we have all been there. The reason is there are many moving parts with shooting a perfect arrow. Its best to make one tiny change…then check. Frustrated, step away.

Know that tuning is a sum of the parts… many times its a couple tiny things that are making it not tune. Sometimes we get lucky…and its one thing…that means you are doing everything else right- bingo.

Best wishes to all my bowhunting brothers…things can get adversarial on forums…lets stick together to defend our sport.

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Tuning is a worthy exercise. Anyone who has done it will tell you the same….its a revelation.

I know many bowhunters that thought they were shooting well( untuned) and after the tuning process they were surprised at how pinpoint accurate they actually were- the untuned bow was holding them back.

To add;
We get a lot of guys posting on AT that are starting in the middle of the tuning process, skipping steps.

That might work…but if your cams are off…or your ATA ( axle to axle) …or you have fletch contact….or form issues….you can move your rest all you want and never get it to tune.

Form;
Form plays a big part, for example; I can be perfectly tuned…then vary my grip and shoot a bareshaft and it flys terrible. Its worth trying different grip positions before moving a bunch of stuff around- heck, you bow might be tuned and you don’t know it.

The problems I’ve seen most for bows that won’t tune:

1) under spined arrows- guys following these 3 decades old charts. If you are in the supposed sweet spot on a chart…you still might be underspined in a hunt arrow with a longer than field point tip Broadhead. A BH affects spine more than a FP.
Go one size stiffer…it works.

2) Guys moving their rest too much. From your Bows designated center shot, if you go more than a 1/16” and its not tuning….….you probably went too far or there is something else going on with your form or cams. Move your rest in 1/32” increments.

3) Guys paper testing FPs and think they are done. Nope, thats the 1/2 way point If you are going to shoot BHs.

Lastly, tuning is about the most frustrating thing on the planet when you are new to it- we have all been there. The reason is there are many moving parts with shooting a perfect arrow. Its best to make one tiny change…then check. Frustrated, step away.

Know that tuning is a sum of the parts… many times its a couple tiny things that are making it not tune. Sometimes we get lucky…and its one thing…that means you are doing everything else right- bingo.

Best wishes to all my bowhunting brothers…things can get adversarial on forums…lets stick together to defend our sport.

.
I couldn’t say it much better. Agree 100%
 
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