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Broadhead Tuning Day Today

312K views 918 replies 420 participants last post by  Chase406 
#1 · (Edited)
Decided to take advantage of the break in the rain and quit loading up animals 2-by-2 and building my big boat for them:) I used the time to broadhead tune for the 2007-2008 Hunting Season...before somebody starts seeing Rut activity next week:wink:
I decided to post the sequence of events here to help out those that have never done this before or for those that tried and got frustrated. This is just how I did it.

Set-up
Martin Slayer Xtreme 28.5" DynaCam 65# SouthPaw Version (Left-Hand):thumb:
Trophy Taker Original Drop-Away
Winners Choice 452x string/cable
6" Fuse Axium Stabilizer
Sword 3rd Axis Micro-Apex 0.010" pins
Carbon Express Maxima 350 with bull-dog collars and 2 inch Blazer vanes
G5 Striker 100 grain broadheads

Shot distance 25 yards
Target Rinehart 18-1

Shafts were cut on an Apple Arrow Saw and squared using a G5 ASD (Arrow squaring Device) carbon cutter side on both the cut end and nock ends. Inserts were installed and inserts were squared with aluminum side of cutter on G5 ASD. Shafts were fletched with 3 Original Blazer Vanes (2 inch) on a Bitz jig Right helical clamp.
 
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#93 ·
I have a question for the broadhead tuning experts here.

Let us assume a couple of things first. You have already achieved proper arrow flight with an arrow/fieldtip combination that spines out properly and have the proper amount of control on the back of the shaft to overcome steering effects of a fixed blade broadhead up front.

If you are as properly tuned as you can be at this point with field tips, you are grouping as well as you can possibly shoot and your broadhead of similar weight group at a different POI (but it does group exceedingly well), what is gained by moving the rest to match the field point POI and how does it affect the actual tune that you have already established?

Other than having both heads impact together obviously, haven't you just taken the bow out of what had previously been a proper tune?
 
#94 ·
It's all about sensitivity. You won't see minor tuning flaws with field points, they are for lack of a better word tolerant to a degree. BH's are less resistant to tuning flaws. By properly BH tuning your bow, you will increase the efficiency, increase penetration and most likely decrease the noise. There is nothing that says you cannot kill deer if your bow is not BH tuned; however, I need all the advantages I can get:wink:
 
#96 ·
Yeah, you need to check it at one other yardages besides 25 (or whichever yardage you start with) preferably at least 10 yards farther. I shoot at 25, 40 and 50, but only go back as far as you can shoot well (hold a group). For example, you could shoot 20 and 35 or 25 and 40.
 
#97 ·
Thanks for the info Doc, now I've got some refletching to do :mad:

Just kidding, great info here and I agree on the multiple yardage remark.
Got things dialed in at 20 yards per Doc instructions, and then backed off to 40 yards, and had to tweak it ever so slightly.

Thanks again!

John
 

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#98 ·
:thumb: Not so hard is it?:dancing:
Nice job. Now you can feel 100% confident you are ready for skewering season.:)
 
#99 ·
I have a question. I was doing some shooting with FT and BH last night. I just bought a Drenalin and kind of eyeballed the rest. For some reason some of the arrows shot with both FT and BH would do like a barrel roll looking manuver. Is thei some kind of fletching contact?Most of the BH shot a good 3 to 4" high from the FT. Should I just move my rest down?
 
#100 ·
Are you sure it was a true barrel roll and not just an illusion due to light and the colors of your vanes and/or wraps? Many claim to see freaky arrow flight at times, but find it's just an illusion based on spinning colors and high speed movement.
However if you are concerned about contact issues, put some lipstick (I prefer fire engine red:wink:) on the edges of your vanes and shoot. Check for lipstick on your cables, riser, rest and shelf...if the lipstick is there, then you have contact issues.
 
#102 ·
You can also use spray foot-powder and check for contact that way...it's a bit messier though IMO.
 
#104 ·
Neat illustration on how to properly tune BH and FPs.

I guess my stupid questions are these. I see that you shot a group of 3 FP. I'm assuming that you shot a group of 3 BHs too? Do you use practice blades or old dull blades and replace them before the season?

I had to read it a couple of times to figure out that the rest was moved first, then the sight.
 
#105 ·
I use new broadheads, but if you have dull blades that spin true and don't have any nicks out of them (consistent weight) then those would be fine. I don't shoot a group of 3 broadheads, because I would most likely destroy quite a few shafts. I use one primarily and then spot shoot to confirm things after I have put the FP/BH group back to center x.
 
#106 ·
Thanks for the tip Doc. I completed the same drill as you described.

I had 1" groups BH/FP at 20
1 1/2" groups at 30
and right around 2" at 40.

Then this happened at 40 with the last arrow.



I think I'm ready to roll.

Thanks!

Daver
 
#107 ·
I used 2 BH just to confirm that it is not just the arrow or shot. I got a G5 squaring device coming. I shot 40 yard BH today, In the group with FP. I am very pleased with the results. I tuned at 25, checked at 10, 35 and 40. I think I am pretty much good. I was hoping that the tune would hold out to longer distance, and so far so good. I might go to 50 next time I shoot. The wind was starting to blow today.
I am shooting better than ever thanks to this site. Forcing me to buy a Guardian, then the STS, and the Stealth Stabilizer. I think it is going to be an excellent hunting setup. Especially now that my Hellrazors are tuned. I like the looks of those BH.
 
#109 ·
S O S

Before starting my bh tuneing every thing was great ( thankfully I marked my rest). I shot Bh 6inches low and 4 inches left at 20 yards at 10 yards they were 2 inches left but same elevation. correcting the far left issue was easy. At 10 yards bh and fp fly together. no matter what i cant close that 6 inch gap at 20 yards, Ive raised my rest as much as 3/4 of an inch and my bh still hits 6 inches below fp. What should I be looking for? Set up is 07 bowtech equalizer 58 lb draw @ 26 inces WB rest. Arrows- 26.5 inch maxima250 w/ blazers and 100grain montecs
 
#110 ·
Biscuits have the unique ability to drive you nuts tuning since they point the arrow at full draw and then massively affect the flight from the rear as the fletchings go through it. It sounds to me like you moved it either too far or in the wrong direction; it's possbile to move it up enough to get the fletching to kick hard off of the bottom of the biscuit which will bounce the nock end up and make the shot fly low. I'd take the rest back to the marked starting point and then move it down 1/16" and see what the broadheads fly like; you may have been shooting decent with a bit of fletching kick before and then the broadheads amplified the effects of the kick to make you think that you needed to move the rest up.
 
#112 ·
That's all it takes. The sight only changes where you point your bow, but the rest changes where the arrow will hit when you point the bow in the same place.

You're trying to make the broadhead attain the best possible flight characteristics (like a field point already has); this is done by getting the rest set perfectly so the energy of the bow is transferred in a perfectly direct line to the target and not a bit cockeyed. If the broadheads and field points hit the same place, then the energy of the bow is being used at the highest possible efficiency rate, and the broadhead does the least amount of steering from the front of the arrow giving you the best possible accuracy.

Get the bow performing at its peak by moving the rest, and then you can move the sight to allow you to harness that perfection in flight to hit what you aim at every time. I will warn you, though: a miss from a perfectly tuned bow cannot be blamed on the equipment!
 
#113 ·
Hey guys,

I'm struggling...:embara:

I shoot a Gold Tip 29.5'' 7595 arrow at 285fps in my hunting setup. I recently asked everyone on AT what a good 2 blade broadhead would be and I went with the original style screw-in Magnus (based on the feedback I got). I have shot both my field tips and the broadheads through paper at around 8-10 feet and have perfect bullet holes for both. I then went outside to do some longer range shooting and was disappointed. My field points were hitting bullseyes in fist-sized groups at 45 yards while the broadheads had much larger groups (about pie-plate sized--unacceptable for me).

I would try this method if I could get my broadheads to group, but they just aren't. Is this a case of fletching contact?? I would think that if I were having contact issues, I wouldn't be shooting bullet holes. A buddy of mine has a high-speed camera that I could use to watch the fletching during the shot if need be.

I HAVE NOT spin tested these arrows to check for wobble. I'm not sure I fully understand why this needs to be done/how to do it/what to look for, etc. PLEASE HELP!! That may or may not be the culprit.

Thanks in advance!!! :tongue:
 
#114 ·
You can check for fletching contact by putting lipstick on the edges of the vanes, shooting and then checking for signs of this on your riser, rest, cables or shelf. If you cannot hold a group with broadheads then something is suspect. Do you have other heads you can try? Spinning just means exactly that, spin the shafts to see if the broadhead spins true:))) or wobbles :)(). If it wobbles, then you are going to have problems.
What kind of fletching are you using? If you are not using enough to stabilize, then this could cause large groups also.
 
#115 ·
Here is kind of an update for Doc. Since I shoot FOB's I have to bareshaft tune. So I shot arrows through @ 3 yards and again @ 10 yards. Got the rest adjusted accordingly. I wanted to just see, as it was getting dark, what a couple arrows would do now. And aside from being high with the rest changes, my broadheads all flew true at 20 and 40. I have to double check them though tonight against FT. Thanks for the help..
 
#117 ·
Here is kind of an update for Doc. Since I shoot FOB's I have to bareshaft tune...
Take two colors of your wife's, or girlfriend's, or both's, lipstick and put one color on the field tip and a different color on the fob. Should work for paper tuning as you can see the relationship of the front and back of your arrow as it comes off the bow.
 
#119 ·
Skewerer: Is there a chance that you're gripping the bow hand differently subconciously? The Magnus Stingers I've used (100 grain 4-Blade) have all been very good at spinning true and have flown very well; if the center of the groups for the broadheads is the same as the field points, then it's possible that a human-introduced error is correcting a tuning error (i.e., bow hand torque in the correct direction to offset a rest alignment issue). A tuning issue with the rest will give you slightly bigger groups than a well tuned setup with broadheads.

If you're not torquing the bow that you can tell and getting the same POI center on the groups between FP and BH, then the next step to try in getting the tightest possible groups is to fine-tune the tiller. Shoot three groups with your equipment set like it is now, and measure and write down the group size and location of the center of the group. Then tighten the upper limb bolt 1 turn. Write down exactly how you changed the bow, so you can return it to the starting point. Shoot and record another three groups, then return the bow to the starting point (loosen the top bolt 1 turn). Next, from the starting point, tighten the lower limb bolt 1 turn. Record the change, shoot three groups and record, and return bow to starting point. Next loosen the top bolt, record the change, shoot three groups, record, and return bow to the starting point. Next loosen the bottom bolt 1 turn, record the change, shoot three groups, record, and return the bow to the starting point. You can also try loosening both bolts 1 turn: some bows have harmonics that don't allow them to group very well at a certain poundage setting.

One of these changes in tiller will result in tighter groups. You need to shoot three groups with every change to get a good record of what the change actually did to the group sizes to attempt to take shooter error out of the equation. You'll notice that the main points are to record the changes and always return the bow to the starting point before making another change. This keeps you from getting lost on where you were in the tightening/loosening sequence, and you must be able to get it back to the starting point in case that's your best group sizes.

If none of these tiller adjustments give you acceptable results, then it's time to try another broadhead.
 
#122 ·
More Questions.....

OK I'm confused and have a few of questions:

If all broadheads are not created equal (different planing characteristics, different FOC due to length of BH, etc..) and they have different POIs than other BHs from the exact same bow, then how does "tuning" until you get FPs and BHs to group together guarantee the truest arrow flight as defined by "paper tuned bullet holes" at various distances)? Won't different BHs require different final rest positions to get the same POI as FPs (everything else being equal)? And won't those different rest positions affect quality of arrow flight for both BHs and FPs?

If not, then it seems like all we would ever need to do is tune one type of BH to FPs and then be able to screw on any BH after that and be good to go. What am I missing here? Don't different BHs cause the arrow to flex differently off the string due to their unique characteristics and don't those differences translate into different arrow flights and POIs.

Also why do we even care about FPs at all? As hunters, why aren't we just paper tuning with BHs to get best arrow flight (bullet holes at various distances) and then moving our sights to hit where we are aiming? And if BHs are "less tolerant" wouldn't field points naturally group with a tuned BH anyway? I'm not trying to say any of the stuff in this thread is "wrong" because I honestly DON't KNOW much about this stuff. It just doesn't make sense to me, that's all. I want to learn and understand.

Right now my BHs and FPs are hitting at the same height but about 3" apart (left to right) at 44 yards. If I just sight in to my BHs and have good arrow flight, does it matter that my FPs are 3" left. I am practicing with G5 Montec "Pre-Season" BHs so I don't even need FPs.

Thanks in advance for any help with these questions.....!!!
 
#123 ·
...If all broadheads are not created equal (different planing characteristics, different FOC due to length of BH, etc..) and they have different POIs than other BHs from the exact same bow, then how does "tuning" until you get FPs and BHs to group together guarantee the truest arrow flight as defined by "paper tuned bullet holes" at various distances)? Won't different BHs require different final rest positions to get the same POI as FPs (everything else being equal)? And won't those different rest positions affect quality of arrow flight for both BHs and FPs?
Lets examine three conditions of tuning and what effect they have;

Poorly tuned - These are the ones that are mismatched to the bow and/or have not undergone any tuning to make them better. Broadheads make the condition worse do to "planing". The aerodymic forces only affect those portions of the arrow that the wind "sees" as the broadhead is flying. If the wind "sees" the sides of the blade or the ferrule from poor tuning it will have a significant effect on its arrow flight. Do this experiment and pretend you're the wind. Look exactly straight down the back of your broadhead equipped arrow and see how little the wind has to influence on the front of the head. now turn the shaft a couple degrees and see that there's suddenly alot more blade surface for the wind to have an affect on.

Well tuned - Those bows that have very little broadhead showing other than the blade, but usually some degree of small tuning error. These are the ones that we can usually get to group very near our fieldtips, but changing broadheads brings a couple different point of impacts into play. Better than nothing, but its not quite perfect. Getting to this point will generally show a "bullet" hole (which is a rough guess imo).

Perfectly tuned - this results in an arrow leaving the bow perfectly straight. There is no broadhead blade showing from the air's point-of-view. Therefore no matter which broadhead you mount on the front (as long as they're perfectly straight) they should hit in the same place as the others.

Some broadheads are different. Those with curved blades for example which throws all that out the window.:)

Now some will say that the broadheads spinning (from helical or offset fletch) will introduce an airstream to the side of the broadhead blades. They are right. But, the forces on the sides of the blade are vectored and equal. So, they cancel each other out.
 
#126 ·
That's pretty good! It took a couple times through it to decide it's a bit of a spoof! The bad thing is that I shoot the FOB's and didn't catch it the first time! My advice is to take the string off and just shoot off the cables! You'll find that your FOC will change your POI with the FOB off the cables, so make sure to hold the bow horizontal instead of vertical when you shoot. GOOD LUCK!
 
#127 ·
I just wanted to post and say thank you for this post. I just got back into bow hunting after a 5 year hiatus and this post would of been wonderful to read a month ago when I was tuning my bow.
 
#128 ·
BH Tuning

Doc, I have the same rest you do and was wondering when you are tuning your BHs, do you raise the rest before you raise it that 1/16"? Will be BH tuning this weekend.

My setup
Mathews FX (2000) Yeah I know it is old but why mess with success
27.5" draw
Approx 63#
Axis 400's 100 grain tips
Vapor Trail strings
TT Drop Away

Looking to get as precise as I can.

My sight is an Impact Archery Collector 3 pin
My 20&30 pins are close together, and at 25 yards I seem to be using my 20 yard pin for those shots. Should I sight my 20 yard pin to 30 and go from there?
 
#129 ·
Doc, I have the same rest you do and was wondering when you are tuning your BHs, do you raise the rest before you raise it that 1/16"? Will be BH tuning this weekend.

My setup
Mathews FX (2000) Yeah I know it is old but why mess with success
27.5" draw
Approx 63#
Axis 400's 100 grain tips
Vapor Trail strings
TT Drop Away

Looking to get as precise as I can.

My sight is an Impact Archery Collector 3 pin
My 20&30 pins are close together, and at 25 yards I seem to be using my 20 yard pin for those shots. Should I sight my 20 yard pin to 30 and go from there?
My input would be that 1. the age of the bow doesn't matter, it's how you shoot it (I shot the same bow from 1989 to 2004), and 2. you don't need to "cock" the rest at the full draw position as you make an adjustment, and 3. precision is fully attainable by any of us unless you handicap yourself by setting an unrealistic goal. Make sure that the movement of the rest doesn't change the timing of the rest (i.e., going up with rest shortens the rest cord and makes the rest come to full draw earlier and consequently dropping out of the way later in the the flight) possibly causing a vane clearance issue. It generally takes moving a rest a long way to introduce vane clearance issues because of moving the rest, though. Once you get through the tuning process (or if you all of a sudden get terrible grouping) check again for vane clearance using foot powder spray or lipstick.

As for pin yardage settings. These are personal setting for each of us. If you're comfortable having no 20 yard pin and expect to shoot game at longer ranges, then there's no problem using a 30 yard pin as your top pin. If your shots won't be over 40 yards and will likely be within 30, however, you may want to keep the 20, 30, 40 setup. The concept of "aim small, miss small" is hard to achieve on a 15 yard shot with a 30 yard pin but is easy with a 20 yard pin. Make sure to think through your likely hunting shot scenarios and set your sight accordingly.

Keep us posted on how the tuning goes this weekend!
 
#130 ·
Will this work the other way around?

Alright here's what I did:

Sighted my broadheads in a couple weeks ago and moved my sight, since I had not come across this thread. Today I went out and shot my field tips which were obviously not hitting in the same spot and just adjusted the rest until I was hitting pretty much dead center (or at least where I was aiming). I couldn't shoot my broadheads along side them because the range has a policy against shooting broadheads. So my question is when I go to shoot my broadheads will they be off or hitting in the same place?
 
#131 ·
Unfortunately you need to do the broadhead tuning while shooting both field points and broadheads. Moving the rest moves the point of impact for both arrows in the same direction, but it moves the broadheads more; therefore, the broadheads will "catch up" to the movement of the field points, at which point your bow is tuned and you can move your sight to adjust the point of impact for both.

Short answer: yes, your broadheads will be different again, sorry! It is possible to accomplish, just takes a little focused time.
 
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