Archery Talk Forum banner

Broadhead tuning help!

2K views 55 replies 19 participants last post by  smokinbobf4 
#1 ·
So it has been awhile since I have posted here but I am back down the tuning trail. I have struggled with getting a bow to shoot fixed blades for along time and usually just switch to expandables. This is over about 4 different bows. I don’t have a good shop or the money to buy a press so I kind of gave up on fixed blades the last few years. However, this last years I became friends with someone who has one and more knowledge than I and we have been working with my bow and seem to have it in spec, paper and bare shaft tuned now. I go out tonight and shoot at 60 and this is the outcome. I believe what they say to do is move the rest up and left in this case? I am a bit nervous as I have tried this a few years ago and and it only made things worse. But that was when I could visually see the arrow not flying well and now it is flying very true. If it matters I am shooting a Bowtech realm at 31” and 67#. Easton axis pro 300 at about 495 grain. 50 gr insert and 100 tip. Any help would be great and thanks in advance.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
The tried and true method would be to bare shaft tune at 20 yards. Strip the vanes off 1 target arrow, with target point, and shoot it at the bullseye, along with 2-3 fletched target arrows. See how the bare shaft lands, and post a photo. Chances are, it will also be a little high and 1-2" left of your fletched group at that same slight slant "/" angle, compared to your fletched group. We need to figure out first how to correct the height. It'll be important to see whether the bare shaft has any vertical angle too, to do that best. A minor rest adjustment might fix it, or it could be the nock height or cam timing needs a minor adjustment. Then you'll probably be able to correct the horizontal with a minor rest adjustment.
 
#4 ·
I started to explain that route too, but if he ever tries a different fixed broadhead, he might get different flight dynamics. I've done it both ways. When I finally started bare shaft tuning, I got any same weight fixed broadheads made to all shoot the same, with just a little more micro-tuning after that.
 
#13 ·
Please explain your "seem to have it in spec, paper and bare shaft tuned now" process.....not all bare shaft tuning is the same. I used to start with paper tuning, then move to a bare shaft and found the paper tuning to be lacking and redundant. At 8-10 yards into a foam type backstop for consistency......as close to shoulder height as possible......shoot your bare shaft arrow several times to get a pattern. The first emphasis is getting it level to the floor (--------), not nock high or low. If it needs any adjustment, that is done with very incremental movements of your rest in the vertical plane or Dloop position.

Once you have your bare shafts hitting level, the next step is getting it to enter perpendicular or straight into the target.......(|).....not (\) or (/). Even a small amount of nock right or left is going to show up in spades at longer distances with a bare shaft or fletched arrow with a fixed BH. Neither of those two setups are particularly forgiving and simply going to reflect any minor tuning or form flaws by not matching the flight of a fletched arrow with a field point.....the reason for this thread and photo above. The purpose of bare shaft tuning is it approximates an arrow with a fixed head without the wear a BH puts on a target backstop in short order.

Slightly move your rest in the horizonal plane IN THE DIRECTION of the point of the arrow. So if you are hitting (\), move your rest very slighly to the left. When you have your BS hitting pretty well at 10, back up to 20 and shoot a fletched arrow followed by the BS to compare. The closer to identical you can get those two, the closer to identical your fixed BH will likely be. I say "likely" because all BH's are not designed the same and some are more finicky than others. In the summer when I am BH tuning for the upcoming fall seasons, I test 4-5 different heads and see which couple fly the absolute best. Those are the ones that go into my hunting quiver. Hope this helps.....
 
#15 ·
Please explain your "seem to have it in spec, paper and bare shaft tuned now" process.....not all bare shaft tuning is the same. I used to start with paper tuning, then move to a bare shaft and found the paper tuning to be lacking and redundant. At 8-10 yards into a foam type backstop for consistency......as close to shoulder height as possible......shoot your bare shaft arrow several times to get a pattern. The first emphasis is getting it level to the floor (--------), not nock high or low. If it needs any adjustment, that is done with very incremental movements of your rest in the vertical plane or Dloop position.

Once you have your bare shafts hitting level, the next step is getting it to enter perpendicular or straight into the target.......(|).....not (\) or (/). Even a small amount of nock right or left is going to show up in spades at longer distances with a bare shaft or fletched arrow with a fixed BH. Neither of those two setups are particularly forgiving and simply going to reflect any minor tuning or form flaws by not matching the flight of a fletched arrow with a field point.....the reason for this thread and photo above. The purpose of bare shaft tuning is it approximates an arrow with a fixed head without the wear a BH puts on a target backstop in short order.

Slightly move your rest in the horizonal plane IN THE DIRECTION of the point of the arrow. So if you are hitting (\), move your rest very slighly to the left. When you have your BS hitting pretty well at 10, back up to 20 and shoot a fletched arrow followed by the BS to compare. The closer to identical you can get those two, the closer to identical your fixed BH will likely be. I say "likely" because all BH's are not designed the same and some are more finicky than others. In the summer when I am BH tuning for the upcoming fall seasons, I test 4-5 different heads and see which couple fly the absolute best. Those are the ones that go into my hunting quiver. Hope this helps.....
Shot through paper and got it so it was without tear. Then bs tuned at about 10 yards as you are speaking but I was by a press and we adjusted the yoke to get it so it was flying straight. When I did it at 20 I was having some issues with consistency and honestly was getting tired and I have a suspicion that it was partially my form and had to quit. It was in to a foam target. When this started I was shooting some fmj 340 spine and they were cut fairly long and we had some real issues getting it tuned. The axis 300 seem to have helped that. I would try a lot more if I had the press but I’m sure you know how it goes when you have to take someone’s time. It doesn’t always work how you want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#31 ·
OP, Shooting Bare Shafts is a great recommendation. I practice with almost as many bare shafts as I do fletched arrows. They also amplify any errors that creep into your form. I used to practice with fixed blade broadheads but my target took too much of a beating. If you shoot bare shafts, pay attention to point of the shafts not the nock. If the point is high, it's just like a nock low, if point is to the left, just like nock right. The target sometimes moves the angle of the shafts so IMO, the point does not and is a better reading point. Others might think I am nuts, but it has worked for me.
Ches.
 
#17 ·
That's why I tell never shooters to move the rest OP. It does the same thing but it's easier than BS. If the string is pushing the arrows straight and BH & FT's have the same POI it really doesn't matter if you moved the rest or the cams.......

BH tuning takes the shooter error out more than BS does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fgignac
#45 ·
I know I’m late to the game. And people are gonna hate on me for saying this, but that’s NOT close for 60 yards.

You’re shooting however, is spectacular; so it is completely worth finishing your tune, in my opinion; especially if hunting out here in the West.

As good as you’re shooting, you should easily be able to get your fix broadheads to crush it with your field points at 60+ yards.

So for clarification, if I am going to take a 60 to 70 yard shot on an animal, I try to complete my tuning to at least 80 if not 100. If your tune is really good, the only thing you’ll see as you get really far out, is the drag tends to drop fixed broad heads a hair lower at those really long distances.

Everyone of us has a different hunting scenario I’m sure. For me I’m stocking and walking sometimes without cover, so the shots tend to be very long. For somebody back East or in Texas over a feeder who might only shoot 2o-4o yards, the fixed broadhead tune might not matter so much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#46 ·
OP this is so classic of AT.......move this check that, buy these, twist your yoke, etc etc. People make this tuning SO much harder and confusing than it should be. Again if that was a 60 yard group and you have your rest at 13/16ths then simply move it a tad.......the BH will be effected more because the steering upfront and the FT's won't......IOW they will come together. Then you are done.

Or you can play with spine do all these other rabbit hole tactics and in the end after you have pulled your hair out you'll see all you really had to do is move your rest probably no more than 1/16 of an inch. Good luck either path you take............lol

I have learned to start with the easy stuff and then if that doesn't work progress to the stuff that most likely isn't the problem. That 13/16 is a starting point........that's all.
 
#50 ·
The reason I think people keep talking about his tune more than the rest itself is that it's entirely possible that his personal tune it's far enough out even with the bow being 100% in spec that the rest may not be enough or the correct fix..

We all know there are many reasons why a perfectly tuned bow, may be perfectly out of tune for the shooter and still produce good groups. Unfortunately, once you put on fixed broadheads, it absolutely exposes form issues.

Personally, the up and down looks like an easy rest adjustment, but that left right there could be more behind it. As an example, I remember grabbing a new bow and shooting a group pretty similar to what the OP shared. Moving the rest did move the group, but they never really came together the way they should. Eventually, the rest moved enough that it was obviously causing a visual tail whip with my arrows. I went back to paper and shot a few of the field points that I thought worked grouping very well, unnoticed they were actually coming off with a tare, even with the center shot correct. Ya, even the cam/cable thing was chasing a ghost. I hate to admit it the right solution was for me to, keep the rest's center and change my grip on this new bow. Once I had the field point consistently shooting without a tare, I needed to move my sight. Once I did that, both the broadhead and field point was incredibly close, and the rest tuned responsive again, it took maybe a 1/16th of an inch on the rest to make big changes.

For me, it was the way I was gripping the bow, for others it might be face pressure, their back elbow, or whatever, that either needs to be addressed or tuned into the bow in order for the rest itself to micro-tune correctly. I only say this as a possibility and something that might defeat the effectiveness/results he gets by moving the rest. Anyway, just food for thought if his rest changes don’t really bring the group together on the L-R that he is hoping for.
 
#6 ·
So it has been awhile since I have posted here but I am back down the tuning trail. I have struggled with getting a bow to shoot fixed blades for along time and usually just switch to expandables. This is over about 4 different bows. I don’t have a good shop or the money to buy a press so I kind of gave up on fixed blades the last few years. However, this last years I became friends with someone who has one and more knowledge than I and we have been working with my bow and seem to have it in spec, paper and bare shaft tuned now. I go out tonight and shoot at 60 and this is the outcome. I believe what they say to do is move the rest up and left in this case? I am a bit nervous as I have tried this a few years ago and and it only made things worse. But that was when I could visually see the arrow not flying well and now it is flying very true. If it matters I am shooting a Bowtech realm at 31” and 67#. Easton axis pro 300 at about 495 grain. 50 gr insert and 100 tip. Any help would be great and thanks in advance.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is an incredible field point group at 60 yards. Obviously you don't have a torque or inconsistency issue in your shooting. As previously stated, fixed one issue at a time. If you have the ability, check your timing on draw board. Then I would micro adjustment your rest down or rotate your d-loop up the string. The d-loop adjustment will have a greater effect than the rest adjustment. Once your FP and BH are on a level plane, then I would work on your left/right. The best solution would be to set your center shot at 13/16 and yoke tune from there. I owned a Realm X for several years and there wasn't a single broadhead I couldn't get flying perfect with yoke tuning. You can try rest adjustments for left/right issues, but once you reduce or exceed center shot to 11/16 or 15/16, I would find a press that allows you to yoke tune.
 
#7 ·
After you have bare shaft tuned - which is the ultimate for field/b/head flight - I'd be moving the rest in needlepoint fine increments - or you can always mark the current windage set location on your sight for f/tips - then move it to the left to accommodate your b/heads.
 
#9 ·
Some are mentioning that this is close? That makes me feel a bit better about it. I was thinking it was off a fair amount. In regards to trying other blades, I am not a huge tinkerer. I like to get something working, and then just use the **** out of it. I also was shooting very good last night, all of my 60 yard groups don’t look like that unfortunately, but they did last night. I did fix a few issues with slight torque this year after some bare shaft tuning really exposed it. I seem to be holding a lot more consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
To be honest, I don’t know center shot, he did that. I have read a lot over the years about tuning on here and elsewhere but haven’t done it before so I am learning as I go and definitely am not very quick and confident. We did have the bare shaft hitting with the field point. Another thing to note is it may be a week or two before I can access his press so I am hoping it can be adjusted with the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#16 ·
To be honest, I don’t know center shot, he did that. I have read a lot over the years about tuning on here and elsewhere but haven’t done it before so I am learning as I go and definitely am not very quick and confident. We did have the bare shaft hitting with the field point. Another thing to note is it may be a week or two before I can access his press so I am hoping it can be adjusted with the rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The owners manual will tell you center shot measurements online or if you still have yours. It's a distance from riser to center of arrow alot are around 13/16". If your center shot is close the bowtechs spec I personally would not go 1/8 out either way with rest adjustment. I'd use the yoke since that's what they are there for. Rest if your going that route as ppl said would be left move. But fix the vertical first with either the rest or timing is correct.

Also if you are anywhere near SE MI send me a PM as maybe your close enough to swing by and we can go over it and use my equipment here.
 
#14 ·
If that's 60 you are close if it's not you aren't as close and it'll take more movement of the rest. Don't be afraid move the rest and see what happens. You just need to move it in if you are a right handed shooter. Mark it so you know where you started and move it.
 
#32 ·
Nice group at 60 yards. Even with the broad head way left, I think you are a at closer than most guys out there.

You say you are not a tuner or tinkerer. Well, just keep it simple stupid. Small moves. Take a picture on your phone first to remember where you started.

Move the left rest 1/32” and try again. Repeat until field points and broad head are impacting the same line.

Then, move rest down 1/32” at a time until impact point is the same.
 
#35 ·
Good shooting there. I didn’t read every post word for word because most are usually repeats anyway. I’ve gotten to the point where I usually just PM. I wanted to ask on the forum out of response curiosity.
Have you checked the alignment of the broadheads for wobble? Your vanes definitely look big enough with substantial helical for stabilizing a fixed blade.
I think it did read that you were not interested in changing heads which is understandable at the cost nowadays. It seems lately that so many people jump straight to bare shaft tuning and bow related problems. You know, for years manufactures have been pursuing a better broadhead design and flight characteristics. Shortened ferrules, better blade venting etc..
Arrow velocity is also a big part of fixed blade accuracy. Fast arrows react more radical to small glitches in the shot.
One of the the final things I’ll mention is the mental game. So you gotta think about this really openly. You are already experiencing the issue. Now, trying to correct it, sometimes your subconscious mind will want to negatively impact what you’re trying to correct. You may not realize it but subconsciously on the shot you may be looking or expecting that inconsistent result that your fighting, only feeding it unintentionally.
I had a fellow who was preparing for a moose hunt . He suddenly started getting a left or right impact with his fixed blades. We knew his equipment was good so we moved to the mental side. He was over holding and basically breaking down his shot trying to get that fixed blade in the dot. To help combat his problem we moved to an in between yardage. This allowed him to focus on the spot and not so much of micro aiming at it and causing him to subconsciously torque or breakdown his shot process. Worked well and after some reps he was back in the game and we never turned a wrench.
Another silly but effective thing to try is one that can be expensive. This is shooting the broadhead at the group already in the target. You may already be doing this idk. I bring this up because the abstract quality of the arrows already in the target give the eye and subconscious something to lock onto. It’s sort of like that annoying hole in the target just outside the X that no matter how hard you try it still manages to drag your arrows into it.
Really sorry about the long post. I just don’t think you’re off that much and I don’t like to see people chasing mechanical or tuning problems that may not exist. Maybe take a day or so break and let it cool off. Go in rested and confident and try again. Best of luck and happy hunting!
 
#36 ·
I agree with this and have had that issue at times and I can block it out if I focus. Oddly enough I have a weird mental block at 30 yards. I can shoot 20 great and 40 great. 30 is just in my head for some reason and I can group tighter at 40 than 30 whatever sense that makes. I am not against trying heads either. Once I find one I want to stick with it. I just have no reason to switch once I have found one is what I meant. Also.L, I did shoot one field point first and then my broadhead and then the other field points. I actually always left the first field point in the target as I seem to always need a “spot” to aim at


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#37 ·
The very first thing I noticed is that you're shooting a 31" draw length, so probably around that same length arrow, at 67 lbs with a 50 grain insert and 100 grain head, in only a 300 spine arrow.
Every chart there is says you should solidly be using a 250 spine shaft with those specs.
Add a planing fixed blade BH to an underspined arrow and you're going to have some troubles tuning, especially at 60 yards.
 
#38 ·
The very first thing I noticed is that you're shooting a 31" draw length, so probably around that same length arrow, at 67 lbs with a 50 grain insert and 100 grain head, in only a 300 spine arrow.
Every chart there is says you should solidly be using a 250 spine shaft with those specs.
Add a planing fixed blade BH to an underspined arrow and you're going to have some troubles tuning, especially at 60 yards.
Well, it seemed like most of the charts I looked at said I was good. My arrow is I believe 29 3/4 if I remember correct. I was shooting a 340 as that’s what my “shop” gave me as I didn’t know and that seemed to cause issues. That arrow was also longer. I cut 1 1/2 almost off from there. That arrow was sticking out the front of the riser as hats what I would prefer, but I cut these so they are just in front of the rest. Mainly to help with the spine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#41 ·
29 1/2 valley of nock to end. 29 1/8 carbon to carbon. Tonight I tried a slick trick and the exodus again at 40 but it was to windy so I didn’t think the test was very good. Although at 40 they seemed to be a fair amount closer to the field point. Hard to say as it was a cross wind with gusts about 25. I did however break an exodus head. It sliced the vane off the slick trick arrow and went so close that it hit the back of that broadhead and broke a blade and bent the tip…… As far as I could tell in the wind, those two heads flew very consistent with each other. I am going to do a more thorough session if the wind and rain ever quit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top