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Discussion Starter #1
My son shoots a Hoyt Rintec at 40 # and 21 in. draw. He shot CX 100"s and
CX 200"s tipped with 85 gr. Magnus Stinger 4 blade heads and Spitfire 85 gr. mechs. Shooting into a layered foam target. He got better penetration with the 100's than with the 200's. On the same weight arrows the Stingers got about 3 inches more penetration than the Spitfires.

I thought the heavier arrow would get more penetration. That was not the case. We did this a number of times and the results were consistent.

Apparently, speed is more important than weight for his setup. I am not an authority on this subject. I've been reading AT for the last six months and got the impression that it was better to shoot a heavy arrow than a fast arrow for KE. Did I get the wrong impression? Are there other factors to the equation?
 

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This link shows some data and conclusions that will help you. Make sure you also check out the links listed in the MOMENTUM vs. KINETIC ENERGY: paragraph at the bottom.

I think arrow speed is important. I think that as long as you stay above 5 gr per pound of draw wt your arrow is as heavy as it needs to be. If it is producing over 30 lbs of K.E. a pass-through on a whitetail is a reasonable expectation.

The broadhead is what makes the most difference. The smaller dia 2 blade cut-on-contact heads will out penetrate a much higher K.E. setup every time.

I am not familiar with the arrows you are using, but if the 100's are smaller in dia they will have less friction and penetrate further in the target. It is the friction on the shaft that stops an arrow in a target.
 

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Shoot what is accurate

jim570 said:
My son shoots a Hoyt Rintec at 40 # and 21 in. draw. He shot CX 100"s and
CX 200"s tipped with 85 gr. Magnus Stinger 4 blade heads and Spitfire 85 gr. mechs. Shooting into a layered foam target. He got better penetration with the 100's than with the 200's. On the same weight arrows the Stingers got about 3 inches more penetration than the Spitfires.

I thought the heavier arrow would get more penetration. That was not the case. We did this a number of times and the results were consistent.

Apparently, speed is more important than weight for his setup. I am not an authority on this subject. I've been reading AT for the last six months and got the impression that it was better to shoot a heavy arrow than a fast arrow for KE. Did I get the wrong impression? Are there other factors to the equation?

I believe with lower pound bows thats what counts most.
DB
 

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You definitely don't want him using any mechanical head...go with a small diameter cut on contact fixed blade head (G5 Striker, Sonic, Wac 'Em). He isn't shooting that much weight and those mechanicals need some heat behind them to do the job right.
 

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Doc said:
You definitely don't want him using any mechanical head...go with a small diameter cut on contact fixed blade head (G5 Striker, Sonic, Wac 'Em). He isn't shooting that much weight and those mechanicals need some heat behind them to do the job right.

You obviously have not taken any sort of a look at the Aftershock mechanicals:

http://www.aftershockarchery.com

These do not use any energy getting past hide, ribs, or gristle layers; they open INSIDE the animal to a very large cutting edge:

 

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medved said:
You obviously have not taken any sort of a look at the Aftershock mechanicals:

http://www.aftershockarchery.com

These do not use any energy getting past hide, ribs, or gristle layers; they open INSIDE the animal to a very large cutting edge:

You are correct, I have not taken any look at these heads. However; it is impossible for them not to use any energy getting past hide, ribs or gristle layers. What happens on an angled shot with these heads?:eek: Is this their first year out?. I tested a cam lock design head where the blades open from the rear (Snyper) it broke into 3 pieces and didn't penetrate 1/2 as far as the cut on contact fixed blades. My other concern with these heads is that you apparently get a very small entrance hole which can be very bad news for blood trails. It is an interesting design and concept though. I am going to read up on them, thanks.:darkbeer:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for all your replies.


Doc,

He won't be hunting with the Spitfires. I thought the Stingers or Slick Tricks because everyone says the ST's fly like field points. Can't get any 85 gr. ST's. Was at Gander Mt. on Wednesday and they had the Stingers on sale for $14.00. I had a post on here last week asking about broadheads and was told the Stingers fly well and give great penetration. They seem to work well in his bow.

I tried the Stingers and they shot great at 20 yards. At forty, some went left and some went right and some were dead on. I may be a bit underspined.
 

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The erratic arrow impacts will be solved if you spin-test each head to an arrow shaft. Do a search to find out how to spin-test.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Copterdoc,

Carbon Express 100's are a lighter arrrow than the 200's. Same diameter, I believe.

I have spin tested my hunting arrows. All of them were perfect. I am shooting St. Epics. Put the Stinger on one of my 3-D shafts, just to see what it would do. I'll take that arrow to the local shop and check it. Maybe I'm not a fussy as I shoud be with arrows. I leave them a couple of inches long. If the front end gets crunched, I cut it off and still have a shootable arrow. An inch or so doesn't seem to make too much difference.
 

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I am not talking about spin-testing the arrow. I am talking about spin-testing the arrow with the one individual broadhead that spins straight on that one individual arrow.

You can't just put a broadhead on an arrow and assume it is good because the arrow is perfectly straight. Even if a field point spins perfectly on the end of it.

Broadheads must be matched to the the shafts that they do not wobble on. Then they need to be kept together as a matched set.

All you need to do is get 3 broadheads and a bunch of arrows and mix and match till you get 3 that spin straight. There is no ryme or reason, but a head will wobble on one arrow and not another. Just like one arrow will spin straight with one head, but if you try a different one it will wobble.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Copterdoc,

I do spin test the broadheads. Just haven't had a chance to do the Stingers. I got them Wednesday and haven't had a chance to get to the shop to use the spinner.
 

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I do spin test the broadheads. Just haven't had a chance to do the Stingers.
That is good, most folks that have broadhead tuning problems are surpised to find out how important spin-testing is. You seem to be well informed already.

Maybe I'm not a fussy as I shoud be with arrows. I leave them a couple of inches long. If the front end gets crunched, I cut it off and still have a shootable arrow. An inch or so doesn't seem to make too much difference.
I doubt there would be much difference in point-of-impact with field tips.
However if you are shooting arrows that vary 1" in length, with broadheads I would expect problems. Shortening the arrow also increases arrow spine. With a field tip It will make a small difference in accuracy, but a broadhead will magnify the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
copterdoc said:
That is good, most folks that have broadhead tuning problems are surpised to find out how important spin-testing is. You seem to be well informed already.



I doubt there would be much difference in point-of-impact with field tips.
However if you are shooting arrows that vary 1" in length, with broadheads I would expect problems. Shortening the arrow also increases arrow spine. With a field tip It will make a small difference in accuracy, but a broadhead will magnify the problem.

Copterdoc,

Good point.
 

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penatration

i am no exspert, butt, the stinger will take less konnetick energy than the spitfire! the stinger will use about 5-10 ft-lbs and the spitfire will use, or should i say, NEED at least 35 ft-lbs of kon. energy. and you got to know how to meassure kon. energy. you will need a weight scale, a chronograph, and a calculater, what you need to figure out is what is the heiviest arrow you can shoot, will be about the same speed as the lightest arrow that you can shoot. you see, the heivier arrow at about the same speed as the light arrow, will get more k.e. the more k.e. you get the more penatration. for the little guy, try to get the arrow weight down as much as possible, about all the arrow manufactars have a light arrow you can do this with.
 

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go with the stingers

I shot an elk this year with a 65 lb bow 27" draw with a 100 gr stinger and acc's at 50 yards and arrow was sticking out the other side of him.The stingers fly great also.I imagine your penetration had also to do with the stingers they penetrate better than any 3 blade head
 

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Discussion Starter #16
fatboyte said:
i am no exspert, butt, the stinger will take less konnetick energy than the spitfire! the stinger will use about 5-10 ft-lbs and the spitfire will use, or should i say, NEED at least 35 ft-lbs of kon. energy. and you got to know how to meassure kon. energy. you will need a weight scale, a chronograph, and a calculater, what you need to figure out is what is the heiviest arrow you can shoot, will be about the same speed as the lightest arrow that you can shoot. you see, the heivier arrow at about the same speed as the light arrow, will get more k.e. the more k.e. you get the more penatration. for the little guy, try to get the arrow weight down as much as possible, about all the arrow manufactars have a light arrow you can do this with.

Fatboyte,

As I said before, he won't be using the Spitfires. I had some and he wanted to shoot them just to see what they would do. In my opinion he has no where near the KE to shoot mechs. I prefer to shoot Rocket Sidewinders and Grim Reapers. They have a much longer point in front of the blades to get the head started into a deer before the blades touch. The Spitfires have a short point in front of the blades and I wouldn't want to shoot them at much of an angle because the blades will hit too soon and the arrow may deflect off the deer.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
gabe branscum said:
I shot an elk this year with a 65 lb bow 27" draw with a 100 gr stinger and acc's at 50 yards and arrow was sticking out the other side of him.The stingers fly great also.I imagine your penetration had also to do with the stingers they penetrate better than any 3 blade head

That's why I chose the Stingers. I wish they had a steel ferrell. A friend told me today that he broke a Stinger ferrell shooting into a foam target. I would have liked to tried Slick Tricks, but can't get any 85 gr. Maybe I will when they become available.
 
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